Beneficial Classes for Freehold/Artisan

Hello,

we have long enough to wait for alpha/beta and even more for the release... so lets discuss some ideas that I had in mind!

RPG in general... Is it fair to have classes that are useful at your home or for your artisan class? I thought about the summoner and his hybrids in general...

When I summon something, it has a purpose. It should support me (weaking/marking enemy, healing/buff group & me), protect me or destroy my foes. But what if we go even further down the rabbit hole?

What if I can (depending on the class hybrid) call different summons for even more purposes? What fi I'm a beastmaster, I could use my pet for tracking down wildlife/people it or let it search for certain objectives... As a Conjurer I could call a familiar to light up a place or make unseen stuff visible... (traps, runes, secret entracnes)... as a necromancer I could bind souls to skeletons and let them work in my mines.. to strip ore & gems from the earth... no hunger, no thirst, no exhaustion.. but a little bit simple minded.. still doing their work without stop.

There are so many options.. possible... lore wise not unimageable... I see so many games... there are NPC who could use their animals/familiars/summons for more than fighting... and why not us? Nobody can tell me,.. late game, I'm a famous and mighty summoner and I'm not at least able to summon one or two worker, or do the other stuff i wrote... and NPC, low or high level, can do it? That would be embarrassing!!

Sure, all the other players would outcry.. how unfair.. so their should be some costs for keeping such summons up.. or it wouldbe something constructable which can be sold. giving these some value for trading... just wild speculation..

well, give me your best shot! what do oyu think?! Come on, dudes!

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Amist

I think intrepid should refrain from certain archetypes being better at artisan classes

Wololo

as cool as this sounds i have to agree @branegames
it could make for some serious unbalance between classes.
maybe if it only apply's to animations ? like a ranger would shoot a fish in the water to reel it in , or mage elevating the fish out of the water ( they would still need a fishing rod) but then again with 64 classes.. this seems undoable

Amist

shkevi wrote: »

as cool as this sounds i have to agree @branegames
it could make for some serious unbalance between classes.
maybe if it only apply's to animations ? like a ranger would shoot a fish in the water to reel it in , or mage elevating the fish out of the water ( they would still need a fishing rod) but then again with 64 classes.. this seems undoable

That would actually be really cool! However yeah, if you start adding elements into the game where you can only really do professions as for example a summoner, things get super unsatisfying when playing any other class

amuria

The idea as you describe it is not very balance as you have already noticed yourself though you chose to call it an outcry over unfairness.
However you could wrap this into a package easier to handle by simply using a broader spectrum and not narrow it down to summoner and the subclasses. From what I remember rogues were also supposed to be able to find secrets, rangers could track. Just give the eight main classes something they can do (even if it overlaps) and you have a not combat related use for their skills. Of course you need to limit those to a field so giving one better crafting and the others not would just push you in the same issue again.
Of course that would mean from the described abilities only one remains but who knows maybe IS sells you a undead worker skin.

Pinkberry

I know what's going on here, you must be an overlord fan 😁.

I actually love the thought of being able to make npc for maybe a freehold situation for everyone that in a sense sounds fair, but not to have freely roam around with you as just part of the summoner class specific then i can see that being slightly unfair that only summoners have npc.

Now if we are really embodying overlord and their game mechanics then making npc with battle capabilities or freehold hands or maids for everyone sounds cool but unlikely 😞.

Ibarumarky

@Pinkberry9069 nope, I didn't watch the anime.. or do you mean Overlord games? Also for the skeleton mine workers I thought about Vampire'S Dawn!

@amuria yes, sure it's unfair but even more unfair is it that NPC can do it. In every god damned game you see them doing things, you can't do... even when you get stronger and come back and one shot everyhting... it's out of rationality.... you become powerful.. but still you are unable to do what lower npc are able to... you can't tell me that it is reasonable...

Every class has something that they do better compared to other classes or they have some unique... I just think its just plain unfair.

I don't know how it's handled... maybe later on you can hire for your freehold workers... but some classes could conjour/summon lesser one for less costs,, but still if ya want better one.. everyone hast to paid to get "premium" workers... so yeah at the start.. summoner classes would have a "little" bit of advantage but not for long.

Amist

Ibarumarky wrote: »

@Pinkberry9069 nope, I didn't watch the anime.. or do you mean Overlord games? Also for the skeleton mine workers I thought about Vampire'S Dawn!

@amuria yes, sure it's unfair but even more unfair is it that NPC can do it. In every god damned game you see them doing things, you can't do... even when you get stronger and come back and one shot everyhting... it's out of rationality.... you become powerful.. but still you are unable to do what lower npc are able to... you can't tell me that it is reasonable...

Every class has something that they do better compared to other classes or they have some unique... I just think its just plain unfair.

I don't know how it's handled... maybe later on you can hire for your freehold workers... but some classes could conjour/summon lesser one for less costs,, but still if ya want better one.. everyone hast to paid to get "premium" workers... so yeah at the start.. summoner classes would have a "little" bit of advantage but not for long.

Well I am personally of the opinion that use of NPC's should be limited as well, but if it must be implemented then make it available to everyone and not just one class.

Ibarumarky

branegames wrote: »

Well I am personally of the opinion that use of NPC's should be limited as well, but if it must be implemented then make it available to everyone and not just one class.

That's what I say. We have to wait and see what happens next.... and what informations we will get so we can speculate more

amuria

NPC's are from a pen&paper settings view gamemaster characters. They do not stand in a competition with other players (since they aren't players) so the only thing unfair they can have is being unbeatable or cheating. Them having access to abilities which you do not have is not unfair if the upper points aren't broken.
As an example, to the workers: NPC's do not earn resources or money they do not advance so their workers are only visual. NPC's don't gain anything, so they don't cheat, possessing an ability is not cheating either.

If your ego is hurt because a NPC can do something you can't, then I can't help you with reasoning either.

Jahlon

Given that you are locked into your main class, this becomes a situation where you create an imbalance in the classes.

This would become one more thing they would have to develop and carefully balance or people would, as you said, have an outrage.

StreetCornerPoet

Also there would be a disparity in Summoners or other pet classes being able to better hog resources for gathering. If I'm a tank without a pet I get to harvest one resource node where that Summoner gets to harvest at least 2 in the same time. This means that pet classes get to stake out node territory and shut other non-pet classes out.

This leads people to just creating gathering pet class alts and no one gets resources as everyone starts competing against 2 nodes per player instead of just one. Or those that don't want to be forced to play a pet class just to gather resources end up quitting the game and the market collapses.

Ibarumarky

@amuria call it whatever you want. ego, balance issues, personal belief, "outrage", being jealous... jesus.. it's feeling odd to list it, if it's clear it won't help to name it differently when you've already noted it on such a charming way of honesty & brillance.

Yeah, P&P gamemaster view... they don't earn anything... still going by logic.. even a "npc" started small and become more powerful to stand where he stands now. So they should give all the same ability kit... sure bosses or people empowered/blessed by gods should be way more powerful.. or creature of mythical existence.

But if it's a normal npc playing as a "summoner" ore whatever, doing stuff someone can't do even if the person is x level higher.. its a flaw in game design.

@jahlon you are right. but it's an interesting idea.. i think!

AurumVitae

It stands to reason that some classes work more naturally with certain professions. Rangers are naturally good hunters, rogues better at appraising jewels, etc.

Certainly summoners would have a labor-force advantage, particularly necromancers. I can see many ways to prevent it from becoming unbalanced, but there are a huge number of variables involved.

Whether this makes sense to implement would depend on the crafting system mechanics more than anything.

What other class/craft advantages might there be?

Warriors - especially good at beating metal?
Mages - Good with alchemy or enchantment?

Ibarumarky

AurumVitae wrote: »

It stands to reason that some classes work more naturally with certain professions. Rangers are naturally good hunters, rogues better at appraising jewels, etc.

Certainly summoners would have a labor-force advantage, particularly necromancers. I can see many ways to prevent it from becoming unbalanced, but there are a huge number of variables involved.

Whether this makes sense to implement would depend on the crafting system mechanics more than anything.

What other class/craft advantages might there be?

Warriors - especially good at beating metal?
Mages - Good with alchemy or enchantment?

Bard - musician skill - creating own music?
Cleric - can cleanse corruption/ clear curses?
Fighter - bonus mining?
Mage - alchemy/enchantments?
Ranger - tracking & hunting
Rogue - crack locks, pickpocketing, traps
Summoner - labour summons, conjur food
Tank - bonus smith

well, its difficult to balance anything, sadly...

Amist

Ibarumarky wrote: »

AurumVitae wrote: »

It stands to reason that some classes work more naturally with certain professions. Rangers are naturally good hunters, rogues better at appraising jewels, etc.

Certainly summoners would have a labor-force advantage, particularly necromancers. I can see many ways to prevent it from becoming unbalanced, but there are a huge number of variables involved.

Whether this makes sense to implement would depend on the crafting system mechanics more than anything.

What other class/craft advantages might there be?

Warriors - especially good at beating metal?
Mages - Good with alchemy or enchantment?

Bard - musician skill - creating own music?
Cleric - can cleanse corruption/ clear curses?
Fighter - bonus mining?
Mage - alchemy/enchantments?
Ranger - tracking & hunting
Rogue - crack locks, pickpocketing, traps
Summoner - labour summons, conjur food
Tank - bonus smith

well, its difficult to balance anything, sadly...

I think there's a big difference between classes having quality of life features to them and outright being better at certain aspects of the game than others. Creating music is what I would qualify as quality of life, whereas having a class be better at i.e. a profession might make sense from a "realism" standpoint, but is what is going to create a meta where you're forced to pick a class depending on what artisan class you want to go for. I really like having the freedom of those two types of classes or activities not being intertwined

amuria

Other argument could be a simple trade secret just because you advanced in levels doesn't mean you had time to research the same things as they did. Adventuring costs time that a NPC might put into something else.

Damokles

I dont think that any class should be better at any aspect of crafting then any other.
Of course some classes have it easier to obtaine some mats then other classes (rogues if they can stealth for example can skip adds and go straight for the ore or herbs), but that should not be too op (like a straight crafting or mining buff) in my opinion^^

Ibarumarky

Let's go back to a neutral solution. So far it wasn't stated that npc could be hired for work at the freehold or @jahlon ? I think it was just stated that there could be guards.

Everyone can get workers but some classes can have more unique cosmetic looks for workers. Necromancer skeletons or zombies, druids some feral creatures, rogues some thugs... So it's just cosmetic without any benefits but still having some cool vibe

Varkun

By this sort of thought, you could say that only clerics who were alchemists could make healing potions because it's their magic that imbues the potion with the ability to heal.

It is an interesting idea but just so long as every class gained some benefit to their selected crafting/gathering/processing skill that was specific to their class. Would be an immense amount of work to implement and balance such a system.

Perhaps as it is not you directly harvesting but a minion you have no chance to obtain rarer materials because well they do not have your skill and knowledge. Plus there will be no hitting the QTE timer when it's just automated minions doing the work. That's assuming they still intend to use the QTE for harvesting.

Ibarumarky

Varkun wrote: »

By this sort of thought, you could say that only clerics who were alchemists could make healing potions because it's their magic that imbues the potion with the ability to heal.

It is an interesting idea but just so long as every class gained some benefit to their selected crafting/gathering/processing skill that was specific to their class. Would be an immense amount of work to implement and balance such a system.

Perhaps as it is not you directly harvesting but a minion you have no chance to obtain rarer materials because well they do not have your skill and knowledge. Plus there will be no hitting the QTE timer when it's just automated minions doing the work. That's assuming they still intend to use the QTE for harvesting.

I agree with you and also your solution is fine. What do you think about my solution just above your post?

Thanks for your reply!

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