Do you guys think Ashes will be just another MMORPG or will it be something entirely different?

I believe it will be somewhere between however much I hope it to be something entirely different (mainly because I despise the MMORPG genre as it comprises of one or two unique games that don't 'feel' like a game from 2005). Despite the promising features they've told us, in my opinion, if the core gameplay mechanics is just like any other MMORPG (uninteresting combat, lack of deep exploration, being non-immersive, unexciting story and quests and in general the 'artificial' feel that most MMOs have - in which case you just click stuff to do something rather than putting an effort that emphasize the 'RPG' element), it would still be a decent game and even perhaps the best MMORPG out there but wouldn't be able to impress most of the gamers around the world and would cease to exist when a better MMORPG comes to the market and change the genre for good but this time for real.

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Wandering Mist

duebrithil wrote: »

At the moment, it almost doesn't matter how good or bad the game is. Today's community or gamer is so incredibly spoiled and trimmed down to complaining that every game is badly done anyway. In the last 3 years a game could hardly prove itself. You can also see it on Early Access titles, it's an EA game, so you should assume that it's not finished yet and people are complaining about an unfinished game...
*at this point please use a Facepalm, thanks*

The majority of games these days (especially from the AAA market) are released unfinished, buggy as hell and full of greedy microtransactions. Nintendo seem to be the only company capable (or willing) to release decent games that aren't microtransaction-fests.

[Deleted User]

Do you guys think Ashes will be just another MMORPG or will it be something entirely different?

Just another MMORPG, only with some different bells, skins, and whistles.

Yes I know I talk a lot, and communicate poorly, but I've done my best to express why I feel this way:

The idea the initially sold to the community was a great one, but (just through my own interactions), I've seen no drive to produce anything significantly game changing.

What this game could be, even now, if the desire was there. Would be one that actually created a much needed shift and a break in all of the old negative ingrained MMORPG players behaviours and playstyles.

It is my strong opinion that this game will be nothing truly special, because whilst it uses a different engine, and has a different look, it won't address any attention towards a shift in players behaviors and attitudes towards MMO's

If they REALLY intended this game to be different, then they should have been coming at that from the beginning, rather than stating, "we're going to be different" only to then show by actions that actually they are just the same.

IF however, they DID want to achieve their goal for something other than 'just another MMORPG', then they would be better off looking at the much bigger picture, working on removing negative habits that have been ingrained in players over the years of poor MMORPGs and working on adressing a culture change.

I'm not talking about forcing all players to suddenly start playing one way or another, I'm talking about creating a cultural shift.

If you want ALL play styles to be relevant, then THAT needs to be your foundation. Don't say they will be, then decide to shilly shally about and ask if they should or not.

If you want to make an inclusive environment then THAT is a foundation. Don't mock or ignore minority players just because it's not something that gels with you personally.

No major society shifts happened because of one individual in their own local town. No, change happens when it is bought to the attention of all, when it becomes a necessity; when it gets legislated on and enforced by those in power (aka here, Intrepid)

I'm sorry, but at the moment, Intrepid seems to be trying to fix [insert minority clause here: MMORPG, racism, sexism, equal or gay rights] by doing nothing but paying lip service to the cause.

Intrepid, YOU are the ones with the power to make a change.

Seriously, why do you appear uninterested in doing so now?
Is it that the reality of making the game has left you falling into the same rut left by game developers that have gone before?
Those making those ordinary mmorpgs?
That actually and practiality of achieving even simple things like communicating to the community has overwhelmed you and that you've given up as a result on stretching yourself with the challenge of achieving what you had originally told us you wanted? Something game-changing and new.

Oh, you still want it? Maybe it's just too difficult to believe that shifting peoples acceptance of 'new' ideas and a 'new' way of doing things is possible.

I'm sure that you are aware that here in the UK, our government employs a 'nudge' unit. I'd be surprised if America didn't have one, but not surprised that American culture wouldn't be happy if they actually knew one existed.

It's officially called the behavioral insights team, but whilst it gathers insights, it's role is really to help the government of the time to achieve it's goals.
The government wants to reduce the landfill amount the country generates,? Gently encourage (nudge) the culture towards more active participation in recycling and recyclable choices.
The government is spending too much money on health because people are all obese? Gently nudge the culture towards one which embraces a more active way of life.

I genuinely believed when I read your initial presentations as to Ashes of creation, that you understood that cultural shifts and changes were necessary to put an actual game changer on the table.

So far... *shrug*.... same old same old.

And that's why I personally believe that it will be nothing but an average MMORPG, only with different bells and whistles and skins.

But I also know for the lack of common decency you've shown me, that you're probably likely to dismiss me once again as a nutjob idiot whos ideas are worth less than pondslime.

*Behavioral insights team websight
https://bi.team/
Inside the unit book by David Halpern
https://amazon.co.uk/Inside-Nudge-Unit-changes-difference/dp/0753556553/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=54043622355&gclid=CjwKCAjw8e7mBRBsEiwAPVxxiNGokrajSKxvyzjeo2VGfDos1NkODMYW3_WxLmAerwl7OZz2e3OSnRoCpVUQAvD_BwE&hvadid=259020178683&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9045248&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12857922197815235531&hvtargid=kwd-301268734737&hydadcr=24403_1748879&keywords=inside+nudge+unit&qid=1557914822&s=gateway&sr=8-1

grisu

https://ashesofcreation.com/apocalypse

Apocalypse is the standalone prequel to the upcoming epic MMORPG Ashes of Creation. It is both a testing ground for new systems and content in Ashes of Creation(...)

It's a >>>standalone<<< prequel and >>>testing ground<<<, right, I mean...
There are things that are hard to get informations on in an official and easy to reach format but this is literally on the main page.

Wandering Mist

@genna Ashes of Creation is still at least a year from being fully released. What exactly do you expect Intrepid to have done to change the "bad" gaming culture? For that matter what is so bad about current mmorpgs that you believe needs to be changed, that Intrepid aren't addressing?

Remember that this is a brand new studio, making their first game. I can understand being sceptical and wondering if they are going to deliver what they promise, but berating them for not doing enough seems very unreasonable to me. It's like going up to someone who has just graduated from university and demanding why they haven't solved climate change yet.

[Deleted User]

@wanderingmist The original post was requesting what I thought.
Do I not have a right /freedom to answer that, and answer truthfully?

I'm not saying that when the game launches Intrepid WON'T have achieved their stated goals, just that so far they have done little to show that the 'game changer' is actually likely to happen.

Is it wrong of me to suggest a company to focus on their stated goals as a foundation.
Okay, this might be me being head borked.

Another example / way to describe what I've been trying to:
I will always revert to how it affects roleplay.

Stated goal = To bring roleplay back to mmoRPg's.
Ideal foundation = work out how to get rp accepted/ normalised within MMORPG's, that way it resolves itself.
Actual strategy mentioned = Oh, we'll put in taverns.

To myself there is a massive gap between stated goal and the way that they seem to be hoping to get there.

I was not intending to 'berate' but challenge them to review whether they really are going to achieve what they said they wanted.

Over all though, what I was doing was saying why I felt that this game will not be anything different.

Wandering Mist

@genna Nobody is saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, my issue was that you seemed to be judging the company on a product that is nowhere near finished yet. You also seem under the impression that it is up to the company to solve all the problems for the community. While it is true that a lot of problems can be solved by the developers, that doesn't mean the players themselves aren't also responsible for how the game works. In your RP example, yes there are things that the developers can do to make RPing more accessible and fun, but at the end of the day it's up to the players to use those features. If the players don't use those RP-related functions then there won't be any RP.

You also can't magically make RP acceptable/normal. There are plenty of people (myself among them) who just aren't interested in RP. Our enjoyment comes from other aspects of the game instead. You can encourage players to RP, but you can't force them to do it. One of the ways you can encourage players to RP is by giving them a place where they can express themselves, which in this case is the taverns. Going back to my previous question, what do you think Intrepid can do more to bring RP back into mmorpgs?

If you have suggestions for how to improve certain aspects of the game, by all means share them. But just saying "do better" isn't going to help anyone.

EDIT: Just thinking about this more, one of the things I like about online games is that often the developers will take inspiration from the players. League of Legends is a perfect example. Way back in the day, players started running certain team setups. Riot's (LoL devs) response to this was to implement changes to the game that supported that playstyle.

[Deleted User]

A house is built from the foundations up.

If the foundations aren't secure or the right size, you can't complain if the roof looks a little funny.

I am not judging the company on their product, I am judging what I have seen of their actions and working practice.
One thing doesn't exist, the other does.

I am not at all under the impression that the players don't help create the environment, but the environment in which the players function is very much created and controlled by Intrepid.

If the population had no laws that were set and controlled by government, life would be, whilst much the same for most, total hell for others.

If you disagree with the idea that the environment has such an influence upon us, I'd refer you to the work of Philip Zimbardo and his studies on how we ALL respond given certain external stimuli, whether we would choose to do so or not.

No, you can't make RP suddenly interesting to ANYONE who just isn't, you can however influence how the players respond to seeing others RPing.
If change like that is impossible, lord save all of those real world minorities who are fighting against peoples perception of them.

@wanderingmist : "what do you think Intrepid can do more to bring RP back into mmorpgs?"

Lots and I'll answer, but because this does not address the OP question and derails the thread, I'll do so privately.

tautau

autumnleaf wrote: »

As long as they deliver on everything they have planned for the game then it will be something fresh and new compared to the multitudes of wow clones out there c:

Holding true to their 'no pay to win' philosophy will make them distinctly different and in a VERY GOOD way. There will be quite a few players who won't like that and will quit, but those are the players we are glad to lose. Most other games cater to them and they tend to flit from game to game anyway, so they would leave sooner or later regardless.

Those players who, like me, enjoy earning meaningful rewards because we had to work for them, will love Ashes. I am looking forward to it very much indeed.

TT

Ravudha

genna wrote: »

Stated goal = To bring roleplay back to mmoRPg's.
Ideal foundation = work out how to get rp accepted/ normalised within MMORPG's, that way it resolves itself.
Actual strategy mentioned = Oh, we'll put in taverns.

Is that really a goal they've stated?

Every time I see a live stream with RP questions the devs say RP is not the focus but the mechanics will allow people to RP around them if they want.

Whenever I've heard the devs talk about AoC goals or pillars it's been about 'nodes', 'meaningful pvp and change', 'no pay 2 win', 'economy', 'narrative and lore', and 'the world reacting to the player' - but in terms of players choosing how to act and react, not in terms of players RPing those situations.

Did they mentioned bringing back roleplay as a goal somewhere in an earlier article or stream or something?

[Deleted User]

Yup.
They really did stress that in many of the early discussions and commentary.
"there is a reason they're called mmoRPgs"
But please stick to OP topic for the sanity of all
They also sold the game as ALL play styles will be valid

I'm sorry that you dislike my opinion, you won't change it, please either accept my right to my point of view or Eff off ignore me.

Thankyou.

Dygz

The devs have not mentioned "bringing back roleplay".
Sounds to me, that in their minds, roleplay (character acting) never left.
Steven talks about RP being supported in taverns - AFAIK, he's never said anything about mechanics to support RP outside of taverns.
I'm still very interested to see what that means.

Atama

dygz wrote: »

The devs have not mentioned "bringing back roleplay".
Sounds to me, that in their minds, roleplay (character acting) never left.
Steven talks about RP being supported in taverns - AFAIK, he's never said anything about mechanics to support RP outside of taverns.
I'm still very interested to see what that means.

Maybe they’ll have poop mechanics. Like The Sims.

You have to go bathe in a stream or NPCs charge you extra because you stink.

If you get the OCD quirk you have to take time to clean your hands after each battle.

Kaien

It has some great ideas which makes this interesting but like some of you i have been around the block for some time when it comes to devs making promises about their games so expectaions are moderate.

But here is to hope!

*raises a mug of ale*

Atama

QueenOfRMT wrote: »

I skimmed, but did anyone raise the distinct possibility the game doesn't launch at all?

What’s so distinct about that possibility? What’s the point of even bringing that up?

Wandering Mist

@QueenOfRMT it's always a possibility, although since this is an indi title with a lot of funding behind it, the chances of it not releasing a game in some form as very slim.

Plateau

collaborator

I hope the game is a little of both. Old school to rekindle that flame, new content to keep it interesting.

[Deleted User]

@dygz Please feel free to search all of the livestreams for where Steven went on about 'its called an mmoRPg for a reason'.

That was about the same time as he bought up a video of himself 'rping' in another game.

I would not have made the decision to throw so much money at this game unless he had said just that.
I'm sorry that you do not remember that.

burnthefern

genna wrote: »

@dygz Please feel free to search all of the livestreams for where Steven went on about 'its called an mmoRPg for a reason'.

That was about the same time as he bought up a video of himself 'rping' in another game.

I would not have made the decision to throw so much money at this game unless he had said just that.
I'm sorry that you do not remember that.

Do you have a link to any of these where he said things along these lines by chance? I don't remember much outside of RP in inns either, and would genuinely like to refresh my memory.

Ravudha

Skip to 44:30 here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fPIP8uu6Pc

There's an elaboration on mechanics they envisage may potentially be available for role-players to capitalise on and use to express themselves.

One one hand I can see how they do mention quite a few things that we haven't heard about lately, like player quests, and owning a theatre or dance hall.

On the other hand, they do say it's not just for/about role-players and role-playing but about players owning their identity (through these horizontal progression systems) and that these are the components that lend to the RPG aspect of the game.

I take that last part to mean when they talk about the RPG side of things it's not about role-playing specifically, it's about providing enough mechanisms/systems to really flesh out a player's character's life no matter how you play that character.

Whether you role-play or not I hope many of those mechanics and systems do make it into the game - so that's one concern I share with you @genna.

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