To all the hardcore PvPers out there

I have a question for you. What enjoyment do you get out of a 1-sided fight?

A little background to this question. I'm currently playing on a WoW TBC private realm that happens to be a PvP realm. This isn't my choice but my options are limited. So I was out questing just now and there were a lot of players from the enemy faction running around, including some who were much too high for that zone. Why were they there? To kill people like me. Now I generally don't engage in any form of world PvP as I don't enjoy it and see little point in it. After all, the only time someone is going to engage in a fight is when they are sure to win. Because of this, world PvP is nearly always 1-sided and over in about 5 seconds.

So there I am killing mobs and I get jumped by 2 players from the enemy faction. They were lower level than me and 1v1 I could have killed them, but 2v1 they killed me. The first time I put up a fight, almost killing one of them, but died. I thought this would be the end of it, but no. As soon as I respawned they ganked me again. This time I didn't fight back and just stood there. After all, I knew I couldn't beat them and they had enough CC to lock me down and kill me so I couldn't escape. At this point I was curious to see how many times they would kill a player who never fights back.

6 times. 6 times I respawned and they killed me, despite me not fighting back at all. I'm genuinely curious to know what was going through their heads to want to kill me so many times on respawn like that.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Karthos

wanderingmist wrote: »

karthos wrote: »

This thread is equivalent to asking "why are Asians bad drivers?

Someone had a bad expirence and made a snap judgement about a group of people because of it. Is there anything else to discuss beyond that?

Not really. This is someone who experienced something they hadn't encountered before and is curious about the psychology behind the actions taken.

I never made any judgements about anyone. All I did was ask why a player would engage in behavior that I cannot conceive as enjoyable.

I have a similar curiosity regarding people who engage in seemingly mindless graffiti or vandalism.

Bullshit.

You literally addressed this thread as "to all hardcore PvPers" and then asked "What enjoyment do you get out of a 1-sided fight?".

Don't backtrack now that you're embarrassed someone called you out on it.

Plateau

Wandering Mist

@karthos I'm not backtracking at all, as my intent has remained the same. I addressed the hardcore PvP players because I figured those were the ones who would have the most experience with this type of behaviour and would have the answers I seek.

EDIT: Rereading my OP I admit that it is badly worded and I can see why you believe I am judging PvPers. For that I'm sorry, it wasn't my intent. As I noted in my previous reply, this is the equivalent of walking past a piece of vandalism and wondering "why do people do this?"

Nothing more or less than that.

Karthos

wanderingmist wrote: »

@karthos I'm not backtracking at all, as my intent has remained the same. I addressed the hardcore PvP players because I figured those were the ones who would have the most experience with this type of behaviour and would have the answers I seek.

Because you made a judgement based on your experience and directed it towards a specific group as if they all have this trait.

Tell me where I'm wrong here.

Point it out specifically.

Wandering Mist

@karthos See the edit on my previous reply.

consultant

What happened to you is something called getting ganked. It is the very nature of a pvp world. Now in PVP games Like Battlestar Galactica Online (no longer available servers shut down) You would make list of people that ganked you and then try to get even when they come online.

Make low level toon on opposing faction add them as a freind figure out were they are hunt them down and get sweet revenge. It is called making rivals which is part of the PVP experience. In a PvP game were killing opposing faction is rewarded all you have to do is get in chat channel and say

I need help 2 toons keep killing me im at this location. What happens next is truely remarkable. People will be more than happy to help you cuase they all have been ganked before and know the feeling plus feel a sense of duty to protect you if you are low level.

But guess what then the two people doing ganking can also get help and pretty soon you will have a huge skirmish all because you called for help.

What I just desribed here is the essence of world PvP. In WoW there are factions so people are naturally inclined to kill opposing facton. Getting ganked six times is a bit much though.

In WoW you also have PvP and PvE layered together so you will most certainly find your self in unexpected pvp situations. Try to play with a friend if possible.

Azathoth

I don't know about calling it the 'essence' of world PvP, sounds like Ashes may have a few different options. Also, couldn't the same skirmish be created by attacking someone that fights back, and then win or lose attacking them again? Not sure why you would only need to attack those that don't fight back for this to occur, especially if you are 'looking for a skirmish.' Just an opinion though.

Ukyy

I'm a wow player too, and i'm pretty sure this only happends because of the FACTION based desing of this game. The idea here is, hey your are the opposite faction ? Ok your my ennemy, and we are oin a pvp realm so i have all the reasons to kill you again and again, even if there is no challenge at all and makes no difference in the game but having the low level loosing time. Remove the factions and you'll see that behaviour desapear beacause that plyaer will not be an ennemy anymore.

consultant

Well i was talkign about world pvp not battlegrounds or other pvp areas. World pvp is just that pvp while you are out adventuring so if you never get attacked or ganked while pveing then there is no world pvp.

Karthos

consultant wrote: »

Well i was talkign about world pvp not battlegrounds or other pvp areas. World pvp is just that pvp while you are out adventuring so if you never get attacked or ganked while pveing then there is no world pvp.

I don't agree with this at all.

There's more to World PvP than just ganking people trying to gather or quest.

I think people who don't PvP only get to see that aspect of it. They don't seek out or organize open world PvP and so they only expirence it when it's forced upon them.

I've personally organized open world PvP raids, I used to do all kinds of Open World PvP, attack Alliance cites in WoW, sail and raid shipping in Archeage until we provoked a good ship fight.

I feel a good reverse prospective is a PvPer who doesn't craft or raid but only when the game "makes" them. They don't see the full depth of the activity, and they therefore form the opinion its shallow and boring. To them crafting is just grinding out mats, or raiding is just sitting listening to someone with a lisp yell at everyone about CCing and aggroing Welps.

Are these fair opinions on crafting and raiding? Is this all they are?

seaber

Some people like to spend their time magnifying ants or smashing beetles with a rock :c

beardo

“It’s because I love the sounds of people pleading while I have all of the power and they have none of the power and I’m standing over them like a child might stand over an anthill and as the water rises on their sinking ship and they look to me and in that moment... that frail little moment of helplessness.. they know.. who their god is.” -General Sam

zinnie

There is a distinction that needs to be made between Griefers and PvP'ers.

Griefers are usually the bullies, they enjoy killing the same person over and over and get satisfaction from watching the rage in text chat. They are people with a need to feel superior to others and are usually the first ones to absolutely lose it if they die. I've seen people like this scream into their microphones on voice chat, calling everyone names because they died.
Those types of players are not worth the air they are breathing.

Then there is PvP'ers. I consider myself in this group. I enjoy fair fights, so I tend to enjoy Arena gameplay the most. Be it 1v1, 3v3 or 5v5. These fights can be one-sided at times, but with a good enough ratingsystem its the most equal PvP fights in a game.
In an open world setting, I enjoy fighting like-minded and willing participants the most in GvG's or Castle Sieges for example. I do not get enjoyment from killing random solo players trying to exp. I get enjoyment from a challenge and satisfaction from beating tough opponents.

That's an answer from my perspective at least.

Amist

zinnie wrote: »

There is a distinction that needs to be made between Griefers and PvP'ers.

Griefers are usually the bullies, they enjoy killing the same person over and over and get satisfaction from watching the rage in text chat. They are people with a need to feel superior to others and are usually the first ones to absolutely lose it if they die. I've seen people like this scream into their microphones on voice chat, calling everyone names because they died.
Those types of players are not worth the air they are breathing.

Then there is PvP'ers. I consider myself in this group. I enjoy fair fights, so I tend to enjoy Arena gameplay the most. Be it 1v1, 3v3 or 5v5. These fights can be one-sided at times, but with a good enough ratingsystem its the most equal PvP fights in a game.
In an open world setting, I enjoy fighting like-minded and willing participants the most in GvG's or Castle Sieges for example. I do not get enjoyment from killing random solo players trying to exp. I get enjoyment from a challenge and satisfaction from beating tough opponents.

That's an answer from my perspective at least.

100% agree there with you friend

amuria

Hello, I’m somewhat in the category of players that you tried to address.

Since I see people proclaim themselves as RPers/PvEers and the honorable PvPers I thought maybe the view of a Pker would be needed. Right now, it seems more like the poor are asked what they think about the rich and the other way around.
So why do I kill a player?
Usually, there is a reason:

• Quests: You are blocking progression and today I can’t be asked to chat about it over some tea with you.
• Mobs: See above
• Loot: Either I would like to take your loot, or I would like you to not take what could be my (guildmates) loot in a bit.
• Guilds: Bad blood between guilds
• Relationships: Forums/Map Chat or just recognition just a bit worse blood
• Names: If you must run around with slurs etc. as a name that just happens
• A joke: Wrong time, wrong place
• Curiosity: What is this guy doing?

Your case would fall into either Quests/Mobs and Curiosity since you come back again and again. Which asks the question: How often will he come back?

From the top of my head, I can't think of a time where I would have killed someone for absolutely no reason.
Now since I’m already here let’s address some stereotypes:
Do I enjoy people raging on being killed? Yes, I do it is very funny.
Do I enjoy easy kills? It depends if it is for money/loot I don’t mind it is quick money. When it comes to fighting someone, I don’t pick easy fights since then the point isn’t the money but the fight. Though I will fight weaker opponents if they ask me to.

Do I always lose if I don’t have the advantage of surprise? Not always but sometimes just depends some people are better than you some aren’t.

Maybe the “how did you become this” is also interesting to some. I started this playstyle a couple of years ago in a guild killing its own factions’ traders and then later the ones protecting these traders. It was very fun since guilds were supporting you outside your faction and inside and the opponents were also on both factions. While you had to run away from the big guilds once the army arrived it was still a lot of fun to fight them and their traders before that happened. Since then I just enjoy doing it.
Something that came up was that PK isn’t PvP. I disagree with this since PvP is simply players fighting players to me. PvP has many forms it moves to a good image for this is inheritance in programming. While PvP might not be the same as PK Pk is part of PvP same as honorable PvP (duels) isn’t the same as PvP but a part of it.

Accusing Pkers/Griefers as people not worth their air and other things seem familiar on how all gamers are good for nothing basement dwellers in some media’s eyes.

I don’t identify myself as a griefer just as a Pker and therefor PvPer. Additionally, I don't just play one role, I play many. That is why I don't agree with stereotyping players without knowing them.

I hope this helped.

Dygz

I don't know what "world PvP" is.
"Open world PvP" is any PvP combat that does not occur in an instance.
Ashes is a PvX game, but...

I guess what you're trying to say is that if you aren't attacked while PvEing, it's not ganking.
And the potential for ganking is typically inherent on a server with open world PvP combat.

Viymjr

They did it because they can, it has nothing to do with being hardcore or a PVP'er. Your passive approach after only encouraged them to grief you more because it spoke louder than words that you was annoyed with being killed or camped.

@zinnie hits the nail on the head. PvP'ers enjoy the fight, win or lose.

Karthos

dygz wrote: »

I don't know what "world PvP" is.
"Open world PvP" is any PvP combat that does not occur in an instance.
Ashes is a PvX game, but...

I guess what you're trying to say is that if you aren't attacked while PvEing, it's not ganking.
And the potential for ganking is typically inherent on a server with open world PvP combat.

This comment touches on an interesting point @dygz

What do people currently actually understand to be "ganking" and has the definition of this changed?

In 2004, for me and my friends playing Lineage 2, a "gank" was literally just a kill, and the act of "ganking" was simply a PK. This didn't have to be an open world surprise attack either. It could be an organized duel.

This at one point morphed into "killing a player who couldn't or wouldn't fight back" which based on this thread is the current definition.

It could also mean an ambush attack, a severely one sided attack (overwhelming numbers) or even to mean "to steal something" such as saying "oh I just ganked this monster spawn from that guy."

I think why this topic is so poorly debated is we essentially have our own Tower of Babel going on, where each person is using a different version of what it means to "gank".

This is just specific example of the overall problem in what makes PvP discussions so schizophrenic half the time.

Damokles

@karthos
A gank for me, will probably always be a pvp player randomly attacking someone else in the open. (Played too much lol to define it as anything else

)

Dygz

I understood it to be originally be from "gang kill" - as in a gang of players killing a disadvantaged player - usually via ambush, level disparity or a non-consensual victim.
But, yeah, some language drift over 20 years of MMORPGs.

Child Item