No pvp gear...game balance.

Well if there is no pvp gear . Is there any plans to exclude certain gear from pvp. Kind of goes like this certain items offer huge advantage in pvp so if none of them get excluded then pvp game balance is hindered. But if you wnat to have all the gear usable in pvp and pve and have game balance then PvP game balance will limit the type of items you can make. (Cannot make item that is to powerful in pve or will upset game balance in pvp..

People do like the he won or other team won cause they ahd certain gear that is hard to get. Or they won just cause of better gear.

If the main focus of pvp is fun not to much focussed on pvp game balance people that competative as far as pvp is concerned will go and play another game.

Read statement about equalized play only in some areans situation. (think talking about item levels but not clear)

So from the looks of it all other pvp will be unbalanced but might be really fun.

Would like to know how they are going to approach this issue as far pvp game balance is concerned. This is a huge issue in other games.

I guess you wnat gear to matter in pvp just some gear matters to much.

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unknownsystemerror

Noaani

wanderingmist wrote: »

I think the fear is that the best pvp gear will come from high end pve content (I.e raids). If this is the case then in order for players to be competitive in pvp, they will be forced to do raids. This isn't a good situation for anybody.

I sort of understand this argument, however, I have three counter points.

If a PvP player is able to force a PvE player in to PvP simply by attacking him, what means does a PvE player have of forcing a PvP player in to PvE? To me, the need for that PvP player to also run PvE is balancing the game out somewhat.

Second, perhaps more to the point and as a direct result of the above, no one in Ashes should expect to be able to only PvE or only PvP. The game is PvX for a reason. Based on that, your above comment reads (to me) as follows.

I think the fear is that the best PvX gear will come from high end PvX content. If this is the case then in order for players to be competitive in PvX, they will be forced to do PvX.

Third, if I am in a raid guild and there is an item obtainable via PvP that is useful for raiding, I will get it - and be expected to get it. I will also expect every ember of my guild that is able to make use of this item to get it for use on raids - and the vast majority of raiders simply won't consider it an issue.

This has happened in more than one MMO I have played.

Why should the reverse not be true if a PvP player needs to raid to get an item for PvP?

Damokles

@noaani @wanderingmist
Guys, dont forget that most of the gear will not be account/soulbound.
I would think that if you need to replace your gear with something else you can just throw it back into the auction house or sell it directly, and then get better equipment.
PvP players can just buy their gear directly if they dont want to do PvE content.

georgeblack

Unbound gear means a really healthy mmorpg economy

Dygz

In Ashes, raids aren't just about 40-person groups entering an instance.
Our Nodes and caravans can be attacked by hordes and environmental hazards - we should be getting drops used to craft the gear we want by participating in the defense of our Nodes and caravans from PvE attacks.
Since Ashes is a PvX game - it's all going to be PvX gear anyways.

consultant

Well the reasoning behind this post is PvP should be skilled based not gear based. As for as just going and getting the same item. Well it might be a rare drops most items like boots of speed are no point if every one has one. More for competative play too. Not neccessarily battlegrounds or pvp events like caravans though I must say will provide an advantage.

Just to continue last post about being careful with gear and making gear....well you also have to be careful about abilities and potions and other items that come from professions and racial traits (basically anything that affects the game. So it would be Ashes of Creation the careful develpers that have to be tippy-toeing all the time as to not upset game balance vs Making MMOs Great Again. Really cannot do anything to exciting and if you do you have to check with Mister pvp game balance to see if it is ok.

Well If Apocalypse got released as a stand alone content and there were arena brackets added to that plus some game mechanics to increase player options like what type of load out you have. Then competative play would be mostly separated and would not have to deal with the constraints imposed by having to be careful about anything you do in the game or it will upset game balance.

So I guess winning because you grind more is alright. That is what I got from some posts really do not know how to respond to that. The way I see it that is the inherent problem.

Azathoth

Its not grind more. If you want the gear you are going to do what it takes to get it. If that means grinding that is on you, not Ashes.

Even in PvP gear environments players will benefit from rare PvP gear drops that other PvP players won't benefit from. So to me that point is odd.

Also, as stated, crafted gear will be on par with any dropped gear except for maybe legendary items. So you wouldn't have to grind, you could just buy the gear.

If the argument is then "grind or fall behind" or "buy the best gear or fall behind" then maybe a PvP environment is not one conducive to your play style.

To me it sounds like your main goal would be equalized PvP which you (I believe) pointed out might occur to some degree in arenas or battle grounds. I am not sure why you think gear will break PvP in Ashes. I think it will be skill because of the crafting system.

You may be right. So maybe competitve PvP will not be Ashes strong suit. Its a PvX though, so it cant be the best at everything.

Dygz

PvP is going to be about how players build their characters - gear is a key part of that.
Boots of Speed would have a point since it's still player choice to equip Boots of Speed.
If everyone is equipping Boots of Speed and ignoring all the other types of Boots in the game, that means there is some kind of problem with Boots of Speed.

Of course, the devs are going to have to constantly be vigilant to not upset game balance with each item and augment and ability they add to the game. "Cannot do anything exciting" isn't really a thing.

APOC is "standalone" for this context. It has very little to do with Ashes PvP game balance.
People won't be winning PvP combat because they grind more. If people are winning 1v1 PvP combat because they have better gear than their opponents, that's probably more of a level issue and will likely lead to Corruption.

Wandering Mist

As someone who has played a lot of pokemon and follows the competitive scene, a lot of the skill comes from preparing your team with the best stats and moves. If everyone had all the same gear it removes that portion of the game and the skill required would drop.

The other problem with normalising gear is that it stagnates the meta and certain classes benefit from certain stats more than others.

unknownsystemerror

@dygz The only corruption would be if that 1v1 better geared person was killing someone who didn't fight back. No corruption as soon as they fight back. Basically the whole argument here is people saying "I want it my way!" when the only thing that matters is Steven deciding "This is the way, suck it up buttercup!"

Samiel Aurous

I suspect that all gear will be "balanced" for both PVP and PVE before they are even introduced into the game. That being said, a huge focus according to Steven and the team will be exploration and creation leading me and others to believe that crafting will hold not just a large role but a massive role in the game. Limiting the ability for Crafters to create and explore new techniques would be counter intuitive to that I would think.

That being said, their is a fine line between PVP stats and PVE stats. I suspect that during PVP arena's or within PVP Zones stats might be "normalized" while stats in open environments would be unchanged. Either way this is something that the team would be looking at during the Alphas/Betas.

consultant

samiellancaster wrote: »

That being said, their is a fine line between PVP stats and PVE stats. I suspect that during PVP arena's or within PVP Zones stats might be "normalized" while stats in open environments would be unchanged. Either way this is something that the team would be looking at during the Alphas/Betas.

Yes they will look at this in alpas in Betas. Think I made a mistake posting about this so early in the game.
Think would of been better for me to wait until Betas. Maybe they have all under control. Maybe by the time Betas come along all I might have to say is What A good job they did.

Dygz

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

@dygz The only corruption would be if that 1v1 better geared person was killing someone who didn't fight back. No corruption as soon as they fight back. Basically the whole argument here is people saying "I want it my way!" when the only thing that matters is Steven deciding "This is the way, suck it up buttercup!"

Yeah. That was my point. If you think your opponent is going to win just because they have better gear - don't fight back.

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