Not showing the MMO

Hi Intrepid,

It was nice to see some new creatures and things which are in progress, however; We still do not see things from the MMO itself.

I understand that you have been burned and know the consequences of being transparent, but I think you have gone from one extreme (being too transparent) too another (Not showing any content at all).

More places I begin to see people which are doubtful of the entire MMO, that it will never happen and I also see people making memes about it, as a result of not seeing any progress in a year.

You argued at the latest livestream that you were not comfortable with showing stuff because it is subject to change or might get scrapped entirely. Yes this is something we are aware of as gamers, it happens all the time.

To me it feels like you do not trust your own product, and that is sad.

I hope you get back to being more transparent, and I think it would be healthy for the community.

Thanks for reading. Do you agree?

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Comments

Nagash

we have been in this state of limbo for over 6 months and I do not see any light yet

Dygz

We saw things from the MMORPG. We those things rendered in APOC rather than rendered in the MMORPG.

Azathoth

People have short attention spans and high expectations, so it does not surprise me that some people are doubting Ashes. That hasn't changed since the KS, so I don't know how relevant that point is. I am also unsure of the 'memes', who makes decisions based on these things?

We might be gamers, some of us might be mature, but there is a large variety of gamers. In the past, IS has been burned (like many other developers) by the community. So saying we are all mature and able to understand simple issues like 'things may change,' is clearly not representative of the whole community.

I have yet to feel like they don't trust their own product, but maybe that's because they haven't released a product I think they would judge themselves on.

I like the art and developer clips, Q&A's, and such. I am not too worried they haven't shown more, it's nice they have shown some. For a lot of AAA games, for a long time at least, you didn't even see previews until release.

Magic Man

They don't show much not because they don't trust their product but due to possible marketing issues. Last time we saw an MMORPG footage was 6 months ago. (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRETPXuUEJs&t=3164s) The world wasn't optimized and almost everything about it looked so generic. The combat was 100% tab and wasn't even a good one. Currently, they're working on bunch of stuff and APOC allows them to test all of it. Once they test everything needed, including the combat system, we will see more MMORPG footages.

Viymjr

Steven did explain why they are not showing anything from the MMO. I guess he just wants to avoid anything further negative about Ashes and deems not sharing anything at all has the minimum negative impact.

Quite honestly I would rather they allow Alpha 1 backers to start playing/testing the MMO.

Wandering Mist

There are a few things to note here that immediately put Intrepid on the backfoot. Firstly, this is a brand new company making their first game. Yes they have a bunch of industry veterans but it's still a new team working today, with a Creative Director who (as far as I know) has no previous experience making games at all. Not only that but for the first part of the development, there were just 8 people working on the game. With all this in mind it's really no wonder that their progress has been a little slower than more established companies with more people who are used to working together.

Second, and probably most importantly, this game was crowdfunded on kickstarter. This means they had to announce the game a lot sooner than most other games would. We just had E3 a few weeks ago, and the majority of the games announced and showcased there are set for release early next year, so they are very near completion already. This means they have a lot more they can show that is guaranteed to be in the finished product. I reckon Ashes is still at least a full year, possibly two, from an actual release.

FFXIV started development in late 2004, then it was officially announced in 2009 and released in 2010. By contrast, Intrepid Studios was founded in December 2015, and they announced the game in early 2017, less than 2 years into the development cycle. If we go by the usual timeframe of 5-6 years for an mmorpg, we are still 1-2 years away from a full release.

Simply put, we are getting a rare insight into how a game is developed from the ground up, but that also means that there is not a lot Intrepid can show us that will be easily understood by the general public. After all, do you really want to see all the lines of code, etc that they have written this year? Yes it's frustrating not seeing tangible evidence of development progress, but I personally would rather be patient and give Intrepid time to do their work.

Developing good quality games TAKES TIME. I know it's hard but we all need to dial back the hype a bit and be patient. If it gets to this time next year and there is no clear visible progress, then I will get worried and wonder if the game is going to fail. But until then, I will give Intrepid the space and the time they need to make a great game.

Wololo

@Liten thats some clean advice right there

grisu

Might want to listen to the last stream again, lot's of under the hood stuff, optimizing pipelines as well as optimizing in general. Maybe let them get that out of the way and have some patience?

It's like making a character and a character creator. The character creator takes a vast amount of time longer to create then pumping characters out afterwards.
Just, you can't really show the making of the character creator now can you?

Edit: How can people say there has been no progress w hen we have been shown thebuilding tool as well as the animation change btw? What is it that you want to see so badly really? "it's nice to see that creature, but it's not mmo stuff"... okay?

OrcLuck

We paid for an mmo. If they want progress to seem like its happening they should show it, and not Apoc. There's nothing wrong with wanting more information on the game you paid for the development of. Not the side project testing apparatus.

Wandering Mist

zomnivore wrote: »

We paid for an mmo. If they want progress to seem like its happening they should show it, and not Apoc. There's nothing wrong with wanting more information on the game you paid for the development of. Not the side project testing apparatus.

This always seems a weird argument to me. It's not like APOC is a completely separate project from the mmo. Literally everything they have developed for APOC can and probably will be integrated into Ashes of Creation.

Also, like it or not, an online game's net code and server facilities are vital to the success of the game. Sure it's not as impressive to see as a complete combat system or pretty graphics, but in my opinion it's just as important. Too many online games with great potential fail because of unstable servers and I'd hate for that to happen to Ashes.

APOC is the perfect format to develop and test the net code that will be used in the mmo later on.

Dygz

They are showing the progress for the MMOPRG.
They are simply using the test map to show the progress rather than the MMORPG map because they don't want to show MMORPG locations until we are closer to beta.

Karthos

Liten wrote: »

All millennials wants everything now, now, now! Calm your tits and enjoy the ride.
Following this game has been a blast, and I'm still as hyped as I was when I first heard of it.

Soon you'll be able to play some more Apoc and will likely notice a massive difference from last time you played it.

Keep the hype people but try to enjoy the summer while this game is still in development!

I'm a millennial...

And I'm far from like this person you've discribed here.

Damokles

zomnivore wrote: »

We paid for an mmo. If they want progress to seem like its happening they should show it, and not Apoc. There's nothing wrong with wanting more information on the game you paid for the development of. Not the side project testing apparatus.

Nothing of what they showed is strictly for APOC (except maybe the powerjump, but that can also be an ability in the mmorpg).
They showed us new waves and water shader/animations, new animal animation/new animals, better destruction tech and projectile hit mechanics.
All of those are important for the mmorpg. I know that that was not interesting for many, but the wave and water shaders alone were enough for me tbh xD

CrazySquiggle

wanderingmist wrote: »

Second, and probably most importantly, this game was crowdfunded on kickstarter. This means they had to announce the game a lot sooner than most other games would. We just had E3 a few weeks ago, and the majority of the games announced and showcased there are set for release early next year, so they are very near completion already. This means they have a lot more they can show that is guaranteed to be in the finished product. I reckon Ashes is still at least a full year, possibly two, from an actual release.

Just want to point out that only the extra stuff that we will most likely see after launch is funded by the kickstarter. The main game that we are waiting for was funded by Steven.

Sarevok

It will be ready when it's ready. I know everyone is thirsty for the next big MMO and Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are also getting closer to completion but AoC is the only game I have my eyes on. I do hope they start up the Alpha 1 and 2 sooner than mentioned as I would love nothing more than to help and give constructive feedback on the game.

Amist

azathoth wrote: »

People have short attention spans and high expectations, so it does not surprise me that some people are doubting Ashes. That hasn't changed since the KS, so I don't know how relevant that point is. I am also unsure of the 'memes', who makes decisions based on these things?

We might be gamers, some of us might be mature, but there is a large variety of gamers. In the past, IS has been burned (like many other developers) by the community. So saying we are all mature and able to understand simple issues like 'things may change,' is clearly not representative of the whole community.

I have yet to feel like they don't trust their own product, but maybe that's because they haven't released a product I think they would judge themselves on.

I like the art and developer clips, Q&A's, and such. I am not too worried they haven't shown more, it's nice they have shown some. For a lot of AAA games, for a long time at least, you didn't even see previews until release.

Whereas I do agree that people have a tendency to have high expectations in terms of what is being showcased during the livestream and in testing phases, I do also think that there are a lot of people with longer attention spans that have the right to remain skeptic about the product.

Just like how IS have been burned by the community in the past due to outrage, there tends to be a reason for the uproar and there have definetly been incidents where the community was right to have their doubts.

I am yet to doubt whether or not the product will come out, but it would be nice to see assets used in an MMO setting and not on the APOC map. There are various different systems that will take place in the MMO that are not present in APOC and for people to be curious about those is nothing but a good thing. Of course there are always exceptions and you can never expect the entire community to be fond of the decisions made by the studio, but from my perspective there seems to be an overall understanding and agreement that MMO's take time and should be iterrated on during their testing phases

TL:DR: I think the OP's concerns are very valid. People have a tendency to see any critisism brought upon the game as being just negative and people have the right to remain skeptic

Azathoth

I think wanting to see more is valid. I do not think there is a lot of validity or benefit in pointing out people are making memes about their expectations of Ashes. I also don't believe releasing more information is a strictly benefit added action for IS.

Everyone here has all the rights to say what they want about Ashes. That goes for those that want to point out the negatives and those that want to point out the positives.

Was the point of this thread just to make complaints? I don't think so, and I believe that when some members post more negative concerns there is some benefit to countering with positive aspects and opinions from different points of view. I feel the same way about threads that tend to be "all love" for Ashes, sometimes the things said in those threads also need a counter opinion.

Professor Posh

Non transparent games are usually globally announced 5 months before release and since this game won't be released this year, it would make a lot of sense to not hear a lot about the MMO itself until 5 months before the release date. Also, if this wait is affecting anyone's lifestyle to the point where they're skipping meals, they would probably be better off coming back next year.

insomnia

OMFG, not more of this shit. Gamers normaly takes years to develop. They had to scrap something and start all over.

"You argued at the latest livestream that you were not comfortable with showing stuff because it is subject to change or might get scrapped entirely. Yes this is something we are aware of as gamers, it happens all the time."

Not everybody seems to get this

T Elf

Devil's Advocate here on not wanting to show stuff because it might change means you don't want to have transparent development anymore. To be transparent you have to show the process...which means show it but label it. Have the courage of your convictions.

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