Small Guild Leader NO GO on Current Alt Policy

AOC Wiki stipulates that Alts on the same account can join different guilds. Intrigue, espionage and intelligence gathering is a legitimate aspect of the game.

In other words, and hypothetically, if I intend on having a small guild, an uber guild can take 30 alts and become members. Then that guild is subject to a hijack, member vacuum, or take over during elections of those 30 alts? My issue is that if evasion is such a big deal on Discord and Forums, why foist this same burden on guild leaders of small guilds? And how can one tell IF the appropriate primary accounts are dedicated to a guild and not alts to be recognized as a guild? This makes me pause and may dissuade others from a) forming a small guild and b) having elections. The risks are too great to invest in hard work, spend money on kickstarter uber packages, with no modicum of risk mitigation. I hope the designers visit this legitimate concern. A spy is one thing, but a coordinated and simple take-over is another. What measures are in place to give the guild founders of a small guild a reasonable comfort level in preventing a devastating sabotage of a raid (where members quit) or a corporate take-over? If the answer is some obtuse non answer like it's risk and reward I say heck no. It's a lot harder to break or take over a big guild from the outside. For your consideration.

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Comments

Lyiat

You don't believe alts should have a vote in a system that doesn't exist. Because there's no system in the game in which people vote for a guild leader. Therefor, your problem doesn't exist inside the game mechanics. That's something you need to wrap your head around before you even begin to insist people resolve the issue for you.

Karthos

A pretty basic mainstay of MMOs is recruitment of members for raids and guilds.

You solve this issue by recruitment and member management. If you're letting in 30 alts from another guild, that's 100% on you to determine they are alts and to kick them.

I see this problem with guilds that mass recruit, throw invites randomly and who don't purge their inactive roster with some frequency.

This issue is completely on the guild leader to manage.

Wololo

yep this is why you have applications

Jahlon

Guilds don't have elections by game-mechanics.

If you choose to have a rotating leadership and a guild leader gets elected and then takes over and does whatever they want with the guild, well I guess they are entitled to do that since they are in fact the guild leader.

unknown

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Karthos

skafftaruss wrote: »

A definite game changer. A message to any small guild leader and democratic guild. A NO GO here from my perspective. Mischief is going to be AOC's undoing as it is a PVP and manipulators game. Break the game, seek loopholes, raid all from the fat of those that produce. Non-stability but I will try in the self-cleaning oven. Sad to see. Thanks J.

Try the stuff with scrubbing bubbles

Lyiat

skafftaruss wrote: »

A definite game changer. A message to any small guild leader and democratic guild. A NO GO here from my perspective. Mischief is going to be AOC's undoing as it is a PVP and manipulators game. Break the game, seek loopholes, raid all from the fat of those that produce. Non-stability but I will try in the self-cleaning oven. Sad to see. Thanks J.

What you call AoC's 'undoing' is the same thing that keeps fueling EVE Online and keeps it as one of the most compelling games in the genre. I for one hope that AoC will be able to produce the same legendary stories of betrayal and subversion that EVE does.

bloodprophet

Or perhaps, your over thinking the whole problem.
Why would someone want to take the time to take over and raid a smaller guilds bank? Seems like a lot of time and effort just for the lol's. Doesn't mean someone won't but personally from my perspective it sounds like you want IS to use resources to protect your guild from a might maybe could happen situation.
They should leave as much stuff to player agency as they can. This is one of those things. People do weird things sometimes. I have been in guilds that silly things happened when I was off line log in and no guild anymore.
I guess my real question is why should IS be responsible for what happens in YOUR guild?

Azathoth

I love how, in the forums, one thing or another leads to the game already being over. Especially since it has yet to be released. Ashes: DOA.

Karthos

@azathoth

Our friend Skatagories has a propensity for the alarmist dramatic.

unknownsystemerror

@karthos I predict we will get a "But I am royalty, they have to do what I want because I paid more than you scrubs!" post from him soon.

unknown

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Lyiat

skafftaruss wrote: »

Here's my addition to the guild site: Sorry we do not accept alternate members. We are a small skills based association ..... Those that intentionally seek to use the exchange for selfish gain or evasion - need not apply. I just love it that forums and discord is hell bent on alt accounts as evasive. Hence, small guild leaders just have to work harder. My prediction is that there will be very few independent small guilds. Small skill based satellite guilds will be affiliated with their larger com-padres (and not really independent). Ahh the challenge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKv6o7YqHnE

How is that prediction valid? You're the only person with this crazy 'vote for the guild leader' system. You know how you survive as a small guild? Don't make a system that can be gamed by other people to take over your guild!

Damokles

When my guild mates try to argue about "unfair treatment" (meaning that they didnt get a third item, because of a random who did his job), I say always one thing to them:
A guild is like the Soviet Union, my missunderstanding comrade! We are a dictatorship, not a democracy and it works fine this way. A democracy leads to things not getting done.

reidarG

To be fair, reaching the level cap in WoW vanilla takes around 720 playing hours or 3 days. I believe that the devs have stated that this will be 42 days in Ashes. Most people will be invested into one or maybe two characters. If you have a bunch of low levels which has not been fully invested to in your guild and your guild gets hijacked by that, then that is pretty much your fault mate.

EDIT: Besides, if you intend on having a small guild with elections, then none will be interested in falling a small guild when everyone is invested in diplomacy with the larger guilds that are forming alliances and rivalries with other large guilds to enhance the node they are fighting for.

Azathoth

What would be the purpose of taking over a guild, if after doing so, you make everyone mad and they bail?

Guild coffers? Is that what this is about?

I mean, you can always make a new guild...

unknown

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Caeryl

I really think you’re imagining a problem that just isn’t there. It’s certainly not a problem created by game mechanisms, so the developers have exactly zero reasons to ‘fix’ it.

If you choose to work outside the game mechanics, you are responsible to fix this problem you yourself are creating (which as it stands, only will affect you, because I’ve yet to see another small guild leader comment to say they would be easy prey to takeovers).

If your guild is small, you should know all of your members. If you’re worried about randoms voting to usurp your guild, narrow down the candidates based on merit since you should know them well enough to have a general idea how they’d function as a leader. If you still believe your small guild to be an easy target, then you’re falling short as a guild leader.

Leadership through voting doesn’t mean you let that 1-day in newbie have the same chance to win as a year-experienced trusted guildmate.

unknown

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Caeryl

skafftaruss wrote: »

It's a strategy of ignorant people to ask a question of a person asking a question. And when you ask a question people get fuzzy. My questions are why democracy is so abhorrent to the community: Answer mechanics. Why can't guild leaders identify primary accounts from alternates: Answer mechanics. Although forums and discord are strict on evasiveness. Interesting.

Ok, please stop being so defensive. You’re not asking a question. No one here has anything against how you want to run your guild, but you need to stop insisting it’s the game’s fault when you don’t have any precautions when working outside established game mechanics. The game isn’t here to save you from yourself.

Democracy isn’t abhorrent to the community, but it is your personal choice, and shouldn’t be affecting other players like you’re asking it too.

Why can you not tell at a glance what character is an alt? Because there isn’t any difference from a “main” to an “alt”, not even time played is a for-sure indicator.

It can be changed at any time if someone decides they enjoy a different play style better and moves on.

Having “ALT” besides every character’s name that wasn’t the first created would be an eyesore, on top of probably not being accurate anyway.

You need to understand, no one except you is bringing this up as a problem. Therefore, it is something you have to account for. Ask people if they’re applying with a character that isn’t their current main. Put in checks when someone wants to apply for guild leadership. That’s more than the game can do anyway, because it’s not going to annoy everyone else with eyesore name-attachments or pointless symbols all over just for a problem only one person is having because they have made the choice to work outside the game’s mechanics.

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