So What Will Be The Point Of Open World PvP?

In a recent Live Stream it was mentioned that there will not be any sort of looting killed enemy players. I haven't been following this game too closely for the past year, but what I remember is that attacking other players gives you corruption, and the more corruption you have the more loot you may drop on death.

What I'm struggling to understand is what will be the incentive to attack other players and risk losing your gear? It seems like the risk/ reward is way off.

Can anyone clear this up for me?
Thank you!

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Damokles

nagash wrote: »

damokles wrote: »

"What will be the point of open world pvp?"

*ehemmm* BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD! LAMBS TO THE COSMIC SLAUGHTER! I AM THE CONDUCTOR OF THE POOP TRAIN!

......

What? It is a legit response in the spirit of Krieg and a Chaos Space Marine!

Nagash

damokles wrote: »

nagash wrote: »

damokles wrote: »

"What will be the point of open world pvp?"

*ehemmm* BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD! LAMBS TO THE COSMIC SLAUGHTER! I AM THE CONDUCTOR OF THE POOP TRAIN!

......

What? It is a legit response in the spirit of Krieg and a Chaos Space Marine!

when the ashes forums turns into a Warhammer forum ^^

Wandering Mist

nagash wrote: »

damokles wrote: »

nagash wrote: »

damokles wrote: »

"What will be the point of open world pvp?"

*ehemmm* BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD! LAMBS TO THE COSMIC SLAUGHTER! I AM THE CONDUCTOR OF THE POOP TRAIN!

......

What? It is a legit response in the spirit of Krieg and a Chaos Space Marine!

when the ashes forums turns into a Warhammer forum ^^

Well, if you insist *evil grin*

Bring it on!

"Da ooman base iz got walls an’ fings, see. So, if I’z goes up to da wall, all sneaky-like, and blows it up wiv me bombs, den dere’ll be an ‘ole in da wall wot da ladz can go fru, see. So, when you’z lot ‘ears sumfing go boom, you charge,’ cos dere’ll be an ‘ole in da wall. Unnastand?"

— An Ork Kommando explaining "da sneaky plan" to a group of other Orks."

Nagash

Archived User1

Damokles

Heteroclite wrote: »

To add a risk/reward aspect without putting the most valuable assets in the game at risk, gear, they should just have you lose a small percentage of the gold you are currently carrying and/or gathered/processed resources. For example 2% of gold, and the fish you were carrying from that risky fishing spot in that underground cave. Then the pker gets 1% of the gold you lost and the ability to grab your bag that held those wonderful fish. The reward would make pking enticing, while not hurting the victim too materialistically. Would also add a risk vs reward aspect to gathering a full inventory of iron or fish etc. and would also create rise to actual bounty hunters and anti-pker guilds/pk-er guilds. If we want high fantasy, bandits and assassins should be a real threat to you in the gameplay, and I do not mean boring mob ones.

They already confirmed this to happen

unknownsystemerror

@Heteroclite % of gathered resources dropped is already a thing. Depending on flagging state it goes up.
See Player Death. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Looting

Archived User1

Micromegas

I don't like the the idea of dropping something from your inventory upon death in open world PVP. Shouldn't it be more of fighting for resources rather than stealing materials from players?

I get the idea why you think that might be a good motivation for starting fights in open world but that also is a good demotivator, hence more people will try to avoid going to those spots.

I mean what about organized friendly PVP fights in open world? 3v3, 2v1 , 10vs 10 , raid vs raid, and so on. Those are hard to pull off if you don't flag. And if you look at the whole picture 1v1 fights that happen in open world for the sake of resources happen rarely and make up only small part of the games PVP, therefore if you try to penalize players for dying in order to make that small part interesting there is a chance that it will ruin rest pvp activity.

So you gotta be delicate while handling this. Imo, losing items while fighting for resources will only be interesting when it is GvG or when you get a party quests and you meet other party with the same quest but only one side can claim it. So the players will have to decide whether it worth the risk?

Imo, Pvp for the sake of pvp is the best motivation since pvp spots will be created by itself, due to community wanting to pvp, near city entrances, dungeon entrance or at some dueling places somewhere in the world. People would gather around them when they have nothing to do or just wanna chill and do some friendly PVP/dueling.

Ofc there should also be penalization for PK or stuff like those but dunno in what form.

unknownsystemerror

Sorry, the above post just seems like you haven't read or researched anything about how PVX is going to work in Ashes as stated. There is a plethora of information giving reasons behind meaningful pvp interactions, ganking, organized pvp and the rest.There is all your bog standard mmo options there for those looking for that style and they have a penalty system for PKing/Griefing called corruption. Sanctioned pvp like caravans and such don't use the flagging system. The flagging system is used for non-consensual pvp interactions like attacking a gatherer or another person randomly in the wild. These discussions have raged since inception of the game back and forth with people on both ends of the spectrum not happy with how they will be affected, but the middle ground is where they have decided to drive. I will post a couple relevant Discord quotes to get you going, but the wikis should be a good jumping off point to to see what their intention behind the base "pillars of design" of the game will be.

Azathoth

I don't think gold should be generated from PvP. At least not PvP that results in corruption. There* shouldn't be a direct financial reward. Get the resources, you earned them, and then craft with them or sell them.

Creighton

Something that I mentioned before in this thread but didn't expand on much is that I'd love to see a "Corruption Coin/ Trophy" that you get for killing other players while corrupted.

This would incentivize the high risk/ high reward playstyle for the people that enjoy it without taking away anything else from other people.

Rewards for this could be special corrupted armor/ clothes/ weapons and cosmetics, tokens that turn you into a monster, poisons, etc.

I think this would be a good enough incentive for people who like to play this way, and it would help others distinguish who plays this way a lot. The dude with a bunch of corrupted looking gear probably will flag and attack you!

Or alternatively corrupted people could automatically have their gear appear corrupted. Corruption coins/ trophies could be spent to quell the corrupted appearance.

T Elf

They don't want to incentivize corruption, they want to discourage it; it's suppose to be a punishment.

Nagash

elf wrote: »

They don't want to incentivize corruption, they want to discourage it; it's suppose to be a punishment.

The truth, has been spoken

Creighton

What's going to inevitably happen if they insist on only punishing it instead of giving other incentives for it is that people will intentionally not fight back to cause other players to gain corruption. If the attacker continues that player gains corruption and literally everyone in the area will swarm the corrupted player to take his equipment. I saw this happen a ton in Albion Online. They had an almost exact copy of this system but it was Blues and Reds. I think that design choice will hurt the game for people who enjoy open world PvP.

This could translate to AOC like this:

Blue player is mining a rare material, and doesn't have anything of value in inventory. He has friends/ guildies nearby.

Red player wants to contest this material and take it for himself, so he flags and attacks the blue player that's mining.

Blue player knows he has nothing to lose, and his friends are nearby, so he refuses to fight back.

Red kills him and becomes corrupted.

Blue's friends (and literally every non corrupted player on the server) kill red and red loses his equipment.

It's a terrible mechanic that punishes solo and small groups of PvP. It encourages zergs.

Caeryl

creighton wrote: »

What's going to inevitably happen if they insist on only punishing it instead of giving other incentives for it is that people will intentionally not fight back to cause other players to gain corruption. If the attacker continues that player gains corruption and literally everyone in the area will swarm the corrupted player to take his equipment. I saw this happen a ton in Albion Online. They had an almost exact copy of this system but it was Blues and Reds. I think that design choice will hurt the game for people who enjoy open world PvP.

This could translate to AOC like this:

Blue player is mining a rare material, and doesn't have anything of value in inventory. He has friends/ guildies nearby.

Red player wants to contest this material and take it for himself, so he flags and attacks the blue player that's mining.

Blue player knows he has nothing to lose, and his friends are nearby, so he refuses to fight back.

Red kills him and becomes corrupted.

Blue's friends (and literally every non corrupted player on the server) kill red and red loses his equipment.

It's a terrible mechanic that punishes solo and small groups of PvP. It encourages zergs.

Gear loss occurs only when corruption levels are high. If that’s a single instance of them PKing, then they likely won’t be losing any gear.

Also if you read the wiki on corruption, you’d also see that fighting back (combatant state) means less penalty on death, less exp lost, less materials lost upon death.

Besides, if there’s allies nearby when someone PKs a players, they’d be dying afterwards either way, why not flag combatant, lose less stuff, and still get it back when your buddies turn on the guy who nabbed it?

unknownsystemerror

You need to read more. Gear drop from corruption occurs after repeated killing of innocents. You have made a choice to get to that point. They have stated repeatedly that chance of gear drop will not come from a single kill. So the "I was just clearing out this guy from MY farming spot! And now I have lost all my gear!" is not valid.

Creighton

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

You need to read more. Gear drop from corruption occurs after repeated killing of innocents. You have made a choice to get to that point. They have stated repeatedly that chance of gear drop will not come from a single kill. So the "I was just clearing out this guy from MY farming spot! And now I have lost all my gear!" is not valid.

Not sure why you're deciding to be a c u next Tuesday. I don't follow this game closely and I'm explaining a problem that I see coming.

Creighton

Caeryl wrote: »

creighton wrote: »

What's going to inevitably happen if they insist on only punishing it instead of giving other incentives for it is that people will intentionally not fight back to cause other players to gain corruption. If the attacker continues that player gains corruption and literally everyone in the area will swarm the corrupted player to take his equipment. I saw this happen a ton in Albion Online. They had an almost exact copy of this system but it was Blues and Reds. I think that design choice will hurt the game for people who enjoy open world PvP.

This could translate to AOC like this:

Blue player is mining a rare material, and doesn't have anything of value in inventory. He has friends/ guildies nearby.

Red player wants to contest this material and take it for himself, so he flags and attacks the blue player that's mining.

Blue player knows he has nothing to lose, and his friends are nearby, so he refuses to fight back.

Red kills him and becomes corrupted.

Blue's friends (and literally every non corrupted player on the server) kill red and red loses his equipment.

It's a terrible mechanic that punishes solo and small groups of PvP. It encourages zergs.

Gear loss occurs only when corruption levels are high. If that’s a single instance of them PKing, then they likely won’t be losing any gear.

Also if you read the wiki on corruption, you’d also see that fighting back (combatant state) means less penalty on death, less exp lost, less materials lost upon death.

Besides, if there’s allies nearby when someone PKs a players, they’d be dying afterwards either way, why not flag combatant, lose less stuff, and still get it back when your buddies turn on the guy who nabbed it?

Guess we'll see. If it turns out like Albion did though it's going to be pretty terrible.

The reason why someone will intentionally not fight back is to intentionally give the other player corruption. This system will be gamed hard.

Nagash

Oh how I missed PVP threads

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