A Guild Leader's Compact on Evasion

It is apparent in AOC Wiki, that in-game evasion is sanctioned for intrigue. That is to say, creating a character to spy, sabotage, or coerce rival guilds as a covert member. It stands to reason; guilds will have countermeasures to thwart such attempts. To that end, I am proposing a compact of those guilds that will not engage in or tolerate such behavior. Hence, there might be a group of guilds that adopt a compact, publish such, and are honorably renowned not engage in these practices. Here is the wording my guild has adopted on the Exchange web page:

‘A note on our evasion policy. The association does not believe in or tolerate evasive behavior. Our associates are not allowed membership with other accounts for purposes of spying, sabotage & coercion in other guilds. Likewise, we do not tolerate those with allegiance to other guilds infiltrating our own. Members in violation will be 'kicked' from the association given veracity. Hence, the guild will be known on the server as an agnostic and neutral group that can be trusted in this regard.’

Please post ideas for your evasion / spying countermeasures here. Thank you.

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unknown

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WizardTim

Now I want to make a shadow guild.

Doesn't exist in the game. At all. Instead, it's purely Discord based. Members join other guilds, play the game, deliver juicy intel to me, and I sell it. For Money.

I will be the Shadowbroker!

Honestly, in espionage, this little compact of yours is just a collection of incredibly vulnerable guilds. The best countermeasure to spy networks is to have a spy network that weeds it's way into the spy networks of other guilds. Knowing who has what spies and in what guilds gives you tremendous power. Or simply having a spy network that can inform you of whether or not opposing guilds are informed of your movements.

For example, if you know who in your own guild is a spy (because one of your spies told you), you can feed false information to that spy. If your own spy is high enough in the target guild to get that information, your spy could feed the guild false information about every guild while you get access to their ENTIRE network of information.

Nagash

wolfwood82 wrote: »

Now I want to make a shadow guild.

Doesn't exist in the game. At all. Instead, it's purely Discord based. Members join other guilds, play the game, deliver juicy intel to me, and I sell it. For Money.

I will be the Shadowbroker!

Honestly, in espionage, this little compact of yours is just a collection of incredibly vulnerable guilds. The best countermeasure to spy networks is to have a spy network that weeds it's way into the spy networks of other guilds. Knowing who has what spies and in what guilds gives you tremendous power. Or simply having a spy network that can inform you of whether or not opposing guilds are informed of your movements.

For example, if you know who in your own guild is a spy (because one of your spies told you), you can feed false information to that spy. If your own spy is high enough in the target guild to get that information, your spy could feed the guild false information about every guild while you get access to their ENTIRE network of information.

you have to call it the alpha legion

unknown

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unknown

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Azathoth

What counter measures are you looking for?
I feel like mine were legit

Dayuhan

Regarding Counter-measures. You could go with the "Honeypot" approach. Have a subset of information that is made known to all guild members that leads to an ambush of any none-guild member that follows-up on the lead. This provides three benefits
1) The Honeypot knows it has been compromised.
2) The real guild knows is following up on their rumours and can then formulate an appropriate response.
3) Spying guilds no longer know which rumours to trust.

Xombie

Imagine having concerns about your counter intelligence capabilities

Thankfully you don’t need to worry about anyone spying on you @skafftaruss, talk about a waste of time.

Karthos

This reminds me the time I was a wee lad in my second year away at school. I had decided I was hungry, and a very thorough search of our refrigerator compartment uncovered no food to be had in short order.

Yet, in the freezer there contained a bag of microwavable bean and cheese burritos. With great haste I ripped into the package and placed two frozen Mexican treats onto a paper towel. I to the microwave oven then went, and I punched in the "burrito" setting. With 3 minutes to kill, I searched for entertainment, as once I quenched my rumbles in my tumbles from hunger, I was bound to need an activity.

I spied stop the TV, a brand new DvD of Grandma's Boy. Removing disc for Killzone out of my Play Station 2, I inserted the the DVD, just as the beeping signaled my feast was ready for consumption. Taking both burritos onto the frisbee I used as a plate, I parked my sweatpants adorned ass on the couch, making sure the cinder block that was acting as one of the couch legs was in place.

I hit the button to play the DVD and began my meal. Hoisting the first burrito to my mouth, I naively was unaware of the sneaky tortilla-wrapped devil had engaged countermeasures. For as I bit into the burrito, a torrent of lava-hot bean and cheese slurry spilled onto my tongue, rendering it a burned out hunk of flesh, singing the taste buds right off.

In white hot pain, I struggled to my feet, and fell to my knees, upsetting the cinder block couch leg, and knocking over a pyramid of beer cans on the floor. The trap had been sprung, and I had walked right into it.

That day, El Monterey won, and my mouth was left unable to taste anything for several hours. Countermeasures for the win.

WizardTim

Karthos wrote: »

This reminds me the time I was a wee lad in my second year away at school. I had decided I was hungry, and a very thorough search of our refrigerator compartment uncovered no food to be had in short order.

Yet, in the freezer there contained a bag of microwavable bean and cheese burritos. With great haste I ripped into the package and placed two frozen Mexican treats onto a paper towel. I to the microwave oven then went, and I punched in the "burrito" setting. With 3 minutes to kill, I searched for entertainment, as once I quenched my rumbles in my tumbles from hunger, I was bound to need an activity.

I spied stop the TV, a brand new DvD of Grandma's Boy. Removing disc for Killzone out of my Play Station 2, I inserted the the DVD, just as the beeping signaled my feast was ready for consumption. Taking both burritos onto the frisbee I used as a plate, I parked my sweatpants adorned ass on the couch, making sure the cinder block that was acting as one of the couch legs was in place.

I hit the button to play the DVD and began my meal. Hoisting the first burrito to my mouth, I naively was unaware of the sneaky tortilla-wrapped devil had engaged countermeasures. For as I bit into the burrito, a torrent of lava-hot bean and cheese slurry spilled onto my tongue, rendering it a burned out hunk of flesh, singing the taste buds right off.

In white hot pain, I struggled to my feet, and fell to my knees, upsetting the cinder block couch leg, and knocking over a pyramid of beer cans on the floor. The trap had been sprung, and I had walked right into it.

That day, El Monterey won, and my mouth was left unable to taste anything for several hours. Countermeasures for the win.

No one survived, I assume?

Hexcat

While I think the spying can and should be part of the game I also think everything must have a balance and/or countermeasures, just like the guild system itself with the information we all already know, that smaller guilds will have traits to be at the same level of a guild with more members, but as far as I can see these issues are going to be in the players and community hands, the idea of a "non spying pact" between guilds is laudable but meaningless if the ones who agreed to the terms don't have a deterrent or see any consequences for their actions, good and bad, the most efficient way to do this is by power, you and your allies must become a recognized force in the realm, i know this sound kind of cheesy, and maybe it is, but it could add an extraordinary immerse gameplay experience, I already told @Makinoji that I like the idea he has for his own guild, and that maybe in the future we can discuss an alliance once I have my own group, maybe you @skafftaruss and your mates could consider joining us and see what we can achieve all together

Noaani

skafftaruss wrote: »

In the same vein as above - I didn't note any countermeasure ideas

You think people are going to publicize what they plan to do as countermeasures to subterfuge in game?

The second you tell others what countermeasures you have in place, those countermeasures become totally pointless.

Rest assured though, I have countermeasures in mind for my guild (and counter-countermeasures, or is it countermeasure-counters?).

Azathoth

@Lumbermark, I think you are on to the best approach.
We have been told guilds will gain perks/boons/whatever as they level. These allow smaller guilds to choose options to keep them on par with guilds that choose for a member max increase.

There might be a progression-line that adds countermeasures to spying. If breaking the guild charter by spying on the guild (who knows how that would be registered) actually had character consequences from the game, @skafftaruss could build a small guild focused on not being spied on.

Atama

wolfwood82 wrote: »

Honestly, in espionage, this little compact of yours is just a collection of incredibly vulnerable guilds. The best countermeasure to spy networks is to have a spy network that weeds it's way into the spy networks of other guilds. Knowing who has what spies and in what guilds gives you tremendous power. Or simply having a spy network that can inform you of whether or not opposing guilds are informed of your movements.

I suggest the guilds in this compact formalize, and a name for this multi-guild organization could be the Noble Alliance Independent of Verified Espionage.

Nagash

Atama wrote: »

wolfwood82 wrote: »

Honestly, in espionage, this little compact of yours is just a collection of incredibly vulnerable guilds. The best countermeasure to spy networks is to have a spy network that weeds it's way into the spy networks of other guilds. Knowing who has what spies and in what guilds gives you tremendous power. Or simply having a spy network that can inform you of whether or not opposing guilds are informed of your movements.

I suggest the guilds in this compact formalize, and a name for this multi-guild organization could be the Noble Alliance Independent of Verified Espionage.

Well played

unknown

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Karthos

skafftaruss wrote: »

My friends and frenemies: I see a rift growing between the circling wagons of the ‘white knights’ and the rest of the general community (not that I speak for others). In my little association, I lost 8 prospects on discord that disappeared, some from piking. In 2 cases, I was DMd that they felt uncomfortable about comments about the association and me. A house divided cannot stand. In my opinion, this is a PVP game fraught with perils using the practice of a ‘self-cleaning oven’ concept without reflection. Best ....

Yummy word salad

Atama

Karthos wrote: »

skafftaruss wrote: »

My friends and frenemies: I see a rift growing between the circling wagons of the ‘white knights’ and the rest of the general community (not that I speak for others). In my little association, I lost 8 prospects on discord that disappeared, some from piking. In 2 cases, I was DMd that they felt uncomfortable about comments about the association and me. A house divided cannot stand. In my opinion, this is a PVP game fraught with perils using the practice of a ‘self-cleaning oven’ concept without reflection. Best ....

Yummy word salad

Good so I’m not the only person who couldn’t parse that.

Damokles

Caeryl wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

I want to sign the compact of spying and subterfuge. It sounds much more entertaining

Make sure you sign with a fake name.

If every signature isn’t edgy to the max then the compact automatically fails

xXxSh4d0wSt4lkerZ88xXx

Damokles

skafftaruss wrote: »

My friends and frenemies: I see a rift growing between the circling wagons of the ‘white knights’ and the rest of the general community (not that I speak for others). In my little association, I lost 8 prospects on discord that disappeared, some from piking. In 2 cases, I was DMd that they felt uncomfortable about comments about the association and me. A house divided cannot stand. In my opinion, this is a PVP game fraught with perils using the practice of a ‘self-cleaning oven’ concept without reflection. Best ....

Short question, asking for a friend:
What is piking? XD

The biggest problem for this association is that you went and put it out into the open.
If you want to start a grassroots movement, then you have to start out in the dark, slithering up on eventual people to join you. And then... when you have a steady posse, that would break bones and bath in blood for you, then you can start spreading your propaganda and killing off your political adversaries.
Thats the way how Voldemort did it at least (he had mindcontroll on his side though)

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