Why does no MMORPG ever implement the shield and spear weapon combination?

Seriously guys!
The only class to use a "spear" (more like a lance) and shield in an MMORPG, at least as far as i know, is the lancer from Tera...
It would be really cool, if tanks had the ability to specc into holding a spear in one hand and a shield in another, like a spartan hoplite.
They could give the spear slower attackspeed or something in return, but i really like the idea of forcing the enemy to keep his distance.

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mcstackerson

Damokles wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Marzzo wrote: »

Birdie wrote: »

Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
(That's the realistic point of view of course)

The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.

but isn't that with two hands, not one?

The pike is indeed the one, where you use two hands, while the spear requires one at the minimum. There are even pikes that are held by a multitude of people!

My question was more at the spears 1v1 effectiveness. I know spears are effective with one hand in a formation but in a 1v1 fight, i'd think it's effectiveness would go down if you were still only controlling it with one hand.

Damokles

mcstackerson wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Marzzo wrote: »

Birdie wrote: »

Because in most games, spears are two handed weapons. Spears can only be used while in formation to keep the enemy troops in a distance. Also strong against cavalry. However it's not useful in 1v1 combat. You can't win with a spear and a shield!
(That's the realistic point of view of course)

The spear is the single most effective 1v1 medieval weapon. Amateurs with Spears have been known to defeat masters with swords. What you are referring to, is a pike.

but isn't that with two hands, not one?

The pike is indeed the one, where you use two hands, while the spear requires one at the minimum. There are even pikes that are held by a multitude of people!

My question was more at the spears 1v1 effectiveness. I know spears are effective with one hand in a formation but in a 1v1 fight, i'd think it's effectiveness would go down if you were still only controlling it with one hand.

Not really. The spear gives you a majour range advantage, and if the spear wielder knows how to keep that advantage and fight to his strength then the sword wielder finds really fast that he is outmatched.
A two handed spear has added flexibility though, which the onehanded spear lacks.

So lets recap: spears are strong as long as you can actually keep your distance, while the sword stomps on it the second he can close in.

nefelia

Everyone is focusing on Euro-centric use of spear and shield, but there are other notable examples of how well the combination works in combat. The Zulu kingdom is a good example. With lighter shields and light-weight spears they were very quick and agile in combat.
Sadly, no amount of agility could overcome the might of the Gatling Gun.

Nagash

nefelia wrote: »

Everyone is focusing on Euro-centric use of spear and shield, but there are other notable examples of how well the combination works in combat. The Zulu kingdom is a good example. With lighter shields and light-weight spears they were very quick and agile in combat.
Sadly, no amount of agility could overcome the might of the Gatling Gun.

Glory to the empire

misty

I'd imagine out of all the options out there, it's basically a popularity contest and the Spear/Shield combo lost.

Nagash

I just had a great idea

double spear combo

Damokles

Nagash wrote: »

I just had a great idea

double spear combo

What is better then one spear? TWO SPEARS, DOUBLE THE PENETRATION!

Nagash

Damokles wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

I just had a great idea

double spear combo

What is better then one spear? TWO SPEARS, DOUBLE THE PENETRATION!

The Grey Man

Varkun wrote: »

Steven 😇Today at 10:52 PM
One handed spears will be a thing in the future.

Seems it will be so the sandle god has spoken today on discord.

So glad to hear that!

caedwyn

as a full time mage dps (my entire gaming life ive been elven mage if possible XD)
i always am upset about 2 things :

1: not all mages are not in need of walking stick please get rid of the need for staff! this is a stereotype!
2: i want to be able to have staff + shield

Nagash

caedwyn wrote: »

as a full time mage dps (my entire gaming life ive been elven mage if possible XD)
i always am upset about 2 things :

1: not all mages are not in need of walking stick please get rid of the need for staff! this is a stereotype!
2: i want to be able to have staff + shield

mage_knight_by_wanderways_dcp0ik5-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTUxMiIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2Y3MDM5ZDBlLWE2ZWEtNGVhOC04OWQyLTg0ZGZmMWJiOTQxMVwvZGNwMGlrNS03NTIxYzBiMS1kMmRkLTQ4M2QtOGY1ZC0wYTdjNDg3YjExMTgucG5nIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTk5NSJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.XtKnWQx6d63HJWaQTkaYhGa3VSShaZ4_wlUz-HkVhD8

Damokles

caedwyn wrote: »

as a full time mage dps (my entire gaming life ive been elven mage if possible XD)
i always am upset about 2 things :

1: not all mages are not in need of walking stick please get rid of the need for staff! this is a stereotype!
2: i want to be able to have staff + shield

A wand + shield should be possible i imagine xD
You should ask them in the next livestream!

Atama

Nagash wrote: »

Harry Dresden doesn’t count.

That’s not staff and shield, that’s staff and bracelet!

Final_Remains

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tAtbzV8CTV0

There was a reason that the spear was the dominant weapon for the majority of civilisation... And it wasn't just because it was cost/ material effective.

The spear has a lot of advantages over a sword and anyone suggesting they were only used in formation is mistaken.

Not that it's realistic, but to see a 'Troy' type spear user (the fight between Achilles and Hector) in a mmorpg would be dope.

Nagash

Atama wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Harry Dresden doesn’t count.

That’s not staff and shield, that’s staff and bracelet!

Its a magic shield ^^

Damokles

Nagash wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Harry Dresden doesn’t count.

That’s not staff and shield, that’s staff and bracelet!

Its a magic shield ^^

That should fall under crafting/enchanting!

WizardTim

Damokles wrote: »

Seriously guys!
The only class to use a "spear" (more like a lance) and shield in an MMORPG, at least as far as i know, is the lancer from Tera...
It would be really cool, if tanks had the ability to specc into holding a spear in one hand and a shield in another, like a spartan hoplite.
They could give the spear slower attackspeed or something in return, but i really like the idea of forcing the enemy to keep his distance.

So~ I'm not gonna read the entire thread before posting this bu~t have you ever tried wielding a spear one handed?

I have. It's awkward and you get virtually no power out of a thrust. It's also slower one handed and can easily be deflected by a sword. The reason sword and board is so much more powerful than sword and spear is because swords are specifically designed to be 1 handed weapons, and are excellent in defensive handling whether or not you have a shield.

Spears (and polearms in general) are superior weapons when wielded with 2 hands. However they are not effective one handed weapons, and rely HEAVILY on formations when wielded one handed. More because it's not just YOUR spear stabbing an enemy, it's also the spear of the guy behind you, and the guy behind him.

So unless you're wielding a lighter short spear and a lighter shield (buckler or something like that), you're heavily disadvantaged in 1vs1 combat with that combination. You need to be able to move, aim, thrust with power, and evade as well as block, or you'll die.

You only gain reach as an advantage by over extending your weapon, the further you extend, the less power you have. Since you only have 1 hand/arm to apply power/control over it, you can't gain reach as an advantage without, well, dying because your very weak and awkwardly aimed attack was easily knocked off course, leaving you mostly open to a counter attack you can't ward off because your spear point is past your opponent and your shield is being slammed out of the way by your opponent's shield.

consultant

I really like this Idea. Lookds pretty cool in movies like 300 and gladiator.

Ventharien

Historically and logically speaking, Spears are a much more versatile weapon than swords. In reality, swords are pretty much useless (when used in their cutting capacity) against even lighter types of armor, like chain, While spears are quite effective. Swords were more often used by nobility and higher ranking officers, and in legends, magic swords, and heroes who weild them are pretty rampant. So i could see why that translated into games, where generally speaking, we are the heroes. I wish it was better represented in more games too!

Dygz

I thought swords v armor is more about chopping rather than slicing?

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