Lost trust

In 2018 Ashes of Creation was the most anticipated MMORPG. Things really went down hill with the whole BR thing, delays and 0 MMORPG footage. The trust of community in the project is gone. When someone asks for MMORPG release date, noone even remembers that the official statement is "delay is in months, not years" everyone expects the MMORPG to come out at least in 2021.

In what ways do you think Intrepid could start winning back the trust of the community?

I guess a way to do that would be to show more of MMORPG, but the fact that they are not willing to do that says a lot too.

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Tatiana

All these posts by people who have absolutely no clue how game development works, and what it takes to develop a working game at all, much less an MMORPG from an independent studio on 1/3 the budget a normal MMO has to work with.

People who actually understand this process, or care enough to educate themselves even the slightest bit on it will not have "lost trust" already. If Intrepid had not done the BR, which really took very little resources away from the primary project (the mmo), they would not have gotten all the data they did and would not have fixed a really critical issue that they would probably not have noticed until much further in development, and would have lead to a massive delay because most of the game would have been built on that issue. If they just throw a test server up on an empty map with no content and no incentive to test, then nobody will test it and they will not get any useful information to make as polished of a product as possible. If they went this route, a lot of you would be crying and complaining about that, too.

This is very much a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario for them and honestly they have explained, and explained, and explained, and explained, and explained, and explained all of these things in intricate detail, in many ways over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Yet, there are still a number of you that simply cannot seem to comprehend it in any capacity, that or you simply want to wish the reality of game development away and be lied to. There are not many companies in this industry that will share as much as they have with this community, and you are quite literally teaching them the lesson as to why, thereby shooting yourselves in your own proverbial feet. Honestly at this point I would prefer they just stop trying to explain these things to people and ignore you and focus on answering things that are more entertaining for everyone else to know.

You can not develop an MMO in 2 years. You cannot even develop a single player game in 2 years unless you're going a very "inexpensive" route, with very limited content and it would be a boring game with a lot of bugs. Anyone who thought an aimed for "2020" release was even remotely close to being realistic was honestly just fooling themselves, as we've only seen how THAT sort of thing has played out, even for AAA titles from major corporate studios.

Dygz

Dygz wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

It's fine for people to have a lack of trust in Intrepid to varying degrees - that's a personal thing.

It is.
What would have been a better statement is to say that people have no right to lose trust in a Intrepid for taking an action (any action), until the results of that action are clear.
Any person claiming they have lost trust in Intrepid for trying to do the best they can is a person with a warped notion of what trust is.

Trust is the wrong word.
I don't trust game devs or game producers - especially not when it comes to dates.
Regardless of how great game devs might be... games in development can very easily become vaporware for a wide variety of reasons.
I have hope - not trust.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

It's fine for people to have a lack of trust in Intrepid to varying degrees - that's a personal thing.

It is.
What would have been a better statement is to say that people have no right to lose trust in a Intrepid for taking an action (any action), until the results of that action are clear.
Any person claiming they have lost trust in Intrepid for trying to do the best they can is a person with a warped notion of what trust is.

Trust is the wrong word.
I don't trust game devs or game producers - especially not when it comes to dates.
Regardless of how great game devs might be... games in development can very easily become vaporware for a wide variety of reasons.
I have hope - not trust.

I don't trust anyone making a product, not just game developers. And that is coming from someone that has spent years in production, and now in development.

While a product is in development, the only things said are (generally) hopes. It isn't expectations or wants, just hopes.

Things don't move away from being a hope until they are delivered.

unknown

This content has been removed.

GrinningJack

So there are two camps in under this forum post, the once that just have blind faith no matter what and the once that lost trust. I used to be in the blind faith camp but now after almost a year of no real MMORPG footage or news, a dying community and fewer people each day showing interest in the whole thing I moved out of that camp.

My interest is still based on what happened and what I played in 2017 and 2018 including A0, too many things that were promised by Steven or said to spark Intrest in the project felt through. So I moved to the camp of what we get is what we get. The Studio changed and how they approach their community and how they handle things, yes I still think this game will be great when it comes out, that is when it comes out and what else comes out at the same time. The core community that was built in the time period of two years and the way they interacted with set community is now gone, and hard push to promote something nobody was asking for and so on and so on, there is much reason to not trust in what they are doing at the moment if you come from 2017 and 2018. But the vision is still great, so all you can do is try to communicate with Intrepid even if they Ignore most critical or negative feedback as seen in recent months, you can still hope.

desoquaddub

LOL its a MMo i expected this was going to go down like this from the JUMP , i've played so many alpha n closed beta to know what they have stated may not come to pass. people who not used to having testing experience get they feelings butt hurt.beside im still working on other shit so i personally have time to kill. from development stand point i want them to take as much time they need to get this game right the latest dev update put a smile on my face hope to have SIEGE in my hands soon , i hate BR but at least something is coming from it trust and believe me the community well whine n complain once the find a bug that impacts there game play

Tatiana

BCG l LordofSalt wrote: »

So there are two camps in under this forum post, the once that just have blind faith no matter what and the once that lost trust. I used to be in the blind faith camp but now after almost a year of no real MMORPG footage or news, a dying community and fewer people each day showing interest in the whole thing I moved out of that camp.

I wouldn't call most of it blind trust, it's mostly just being realistic and having a lot of experience as an MMO player and witnessing how the development process unfolds a million times over, if this describes you then you would know what to expect by now. There are certainly things Intrepid could do that would move me and move most people away from trusting them, but they haven't done any of those things, and not nearly enough time has passed yet for that to be a reasonable or fair attitude to take. You are looking at a game that has not been in development for that long. Most studios don't even announce their game until it's much further in development than Ashes is, but it's a kickstarter/crowdfunded game so that was obviously not going to be an option for them.

As I said before, I think a lot of people either do not know or understand this process, or they are being unreasonable and wishing the reality of game development away.

Atama

Dygz wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

It's fine for people to have a lack of trust in Intrepid to varying degrees - that's a personal thing.

It is.
What would have been a better statement is to say that people have no right to lose trust in a Intrepid for taking an action (any action), until the results of that action are clear.
Any person claiming they have lost trust in Intrepid for trying to do the best they can is a person with a warped notion of what trust is.

Trust is the wrong word.
I don't trust game devs or game producers - especially not when it comes to dates.
Regardless of how great game devs might be... games in development can very easily become vaporware for a wide variety of reasons.
I have hope - not trust.

That’s pretty much my stance too. Well, specifically Intrepid has gone back on its promises a couple of times so I have reason to distrust them, but I do still have hope.

My distrust is that I don’t think everything they say is true. For example, don’t expect “exclusive” offers to be exclusive. Be happy if they are but they’ve lied about that kind of thing already.

I still have hope that we’ll have an MMORPG eventually and it will be good. That’s my hope. The details are what I don’t trust.

Noaani

Atama wrote: »

Well, specifically Intrepid has gone back on its promises a couple of times

See, to me, companies (and people representing them) don't make promises.
They tell you what they want to do, what they hope to do and what they will try to do.
If I had no trust in Intrepid, I would have my credit card canceled.

Ventharien

noaani wrote: »

which indecently allowed

I know you meant incidentally, but this is way funnier

Noaani

Ventharien wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

which indecently allowed

I know you meant incidentally, but this is way funnier

Yeah, I saw that a while ago, what happens when you type longer posts than you should on your phone while you're at work.

Was going to change it, but I figured it was more fun to not do that.

Atama

noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Well, specifically Intrepid has gone back on its promises a couple of times

See, to me, companies (and people representing them) don't make promises.
They tell you what they want to do, what they hope to do and what they will try to do.
If I had no trust in Intrepid, I would have my credit card canceled.

Well, canceling a credit card after you paid might give you some kind of moral victory I guess, but it doesn’t help in any other way.

And companies do make promises. That’s what contracts are. Commerce is based entirely around promises. Without a binding agreement (which is essentially the definition of a promise) you can’t conduct business.

And by the way, you mischaracterize what Intrepid has done. They didn’t just “want, hope, and try” to do things that they couldn’t. They deliberately chose to not do what they swore they were going to do, because they decided that asking for more money from other people was more important than keeping their word. It was slimy and wrong and engendered a lot of bad faith from the community.

VmanGman

Atama wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Well, specifically Intrepid has gone back on its promises a couple of times

See, to me, companies (and people representing them) don't make promises.
They tell you what they want to do, what they hope to do and what they will try to do.
If I had no trust in Intrepid, I would have my credit card canceled.

And by the way, you mischaracterize what Intrepid has done. They didn’t just “want, hope, and try” to do things that they couldn’t. They deliberately chose to not do what they swore they were going to do, because they decided that asking for more money from other people was more important than keeping their word. It was slimy and wrong and engendered a lot of bad faith from the community.

@noaani this is true. Intrepid said that the lifetime subscription would be exclusive for the Kickstarter, but then they extended it into summer backing.

desoquaddub

vmangman wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Well, specifically Intrepid has gone back on its promises a couple of times

See, to me, companies (and people representing them) don't make promises.
They tell you what they want to do, what they hope to do and what they will try to do.
If I had no trust in Intrepid, I would have my credit card canceled.

And by the way, you mischaracterize what Intrepid has done. They didn’t just “want, hope, and try” to do things that they couldn’t. They deliberately chose to not do what they swore they were going to do, because they decided that asking for more money from other people was more important than keeping their word. It was slimy and wrong and engendered a lot of bad faith from the community.

@noaani this is true. Intrepid said that the lifetime subscription would be exclusive for the Kickstarter, but then they extended it into summer backing.

most people on this forum thinks intrepid is this cheating spouse that owes them a explanation lol no one force you to backed n you only paid for extra content n goodies

Atama

vmangman wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Well, specifically Intrepid has gone back on its promises a couple of times

See, to me, companies (and people representing them) don't make promises.
They tell you what they want to do, what they hope to do and what they will try to do.
If I had no trust in Intrepid, I would have my credit card canceled.

And by the way, you mischaracterize what Intrepid has done. They didn’t just “want, hope, and try” to do things that they couldn’t. They deliberately chose to not do what they swore they were going to do, because they decided that asking for more money from other people was more important than keeping their word. It was slimy and wrong and engendered a lot of bad faith from the community.

@noaani this is true. Intrepid said that the lifetime subscription would be exclusive for the Kickstarter, but then they extended it into summer backing.

Yeah, pretty much after that the idea that you could fully trust Intrepid was shot. To be fair I don’t recall them doing anything as bad as that but that was a big one.

The My.com thing was almost as controversial but at least there was some reasoning behind that one. That was an example of Intrepid getting caught off-guard and being unprepared.

Noaani

Atama wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

@noaani this is true. Intrepid said that the lifetime subscription would be exclusive for the Kickstarter, but then they extended it into summer backing.

Yeah, pretty much after that the idea that you could fully trust Intrepid was shot. To be fair I don’t recall them doing anything as bad as that but that was a big one.

The My.com thing was almost as controversial but at least there was some reasoning behind that one. That was an example of Intrepid getting caught off-guard and being unprepared.

To be honest, if they made it available again, I'd be happy. I don't expect they will, but still.
I'm on the fence as to how bad it was though. I mean, exclusives are never that exclusive - look at Epic right now with their "exclusives".
I agree it was a bit rough selling it again before the game even launched, but my understanding of the whole summer thing Intrepid did was that they looked at it as an extension of the kickstarter anyway.

It probably is the "worst" thing Intrepid have done, but from various perspectives it takes on very different levels of "worst".
And honestly, it's nothing at all compared to what Trion would do on a weekly basis - so if that is the worst thing Intrepid do, I'd rate them as the most trustworthy MMO developer out there - if trust were a thing I applied to companies.

Dygz

BCG l LordofSalt wrote: »

So there are two camps in under this forum post, the once that just have blind faith no matter what and the once that lost trust. I used to be in the blind faith camp but now after almost a year of no real MMORPG footage or news, a dying community and fewer people each day showing interest in the whole thing I moved out of that camp.

Must be more than two camps, then, because some of us in this thread never had trust.

Dygz

Atama wrote: »

By the way, you mischaracterize what Intrepid has done. They didn’t just “want, hope, and try” to do things that they couldn’t. They deliberately chose to not do what they swore they were going to do, because they decided that asking for more money from other people was more important than keeping their word. It was slimy and wrong and engendered a lot of bad faith from the community.

Summer Backers?

sunfrog

I don't trust anyone in this thread, 'cause that's how you get killed.

atroxus

Just because you trust Intrepid doesn't mean anyone else has to.

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