Discussion; secondary class doesn't matter.

As far as I can tell, secondary classes do two things. They provide a list of adornments to spells and abilities of the primary class, and they are used to determine stats gained with each new level.

So, if our primary archetype will be where all of our base spells and abilities come from, and our secondary will provide those base spells and abilities with adornments we can select to apply, we can assume that the difference between a tank/tank and a tank/ranger will be almost entirely contained within the adornments each of these two classes have access to.

The thing is, we will gain access to more adornments as we adventure out in Verra.

In my experience playing MMO's, the best things are always the things that take the most time to get. If you apply this basic principle to these adornments, which group are likely to be better - the group of adornments you get as you level your character, or the group of adornments you actually spend time to gain access to?

Now, I admit I am making a few assumptions here - adornments found in the world will be based on primary archetype, not actual class is one assumption I am making.

What this says to me is that once players have spent time in Verra, once a large number of players have access to the ariety of adornments on offer outside of the class system, the bulk of players - those wanting to be the most effective at what they do at least - will likely all start using adornments on their spells and abilities that came from sources other than their secondary archetype.

If this is the case, if a tank/tank and a tank/ranger have the same spells and/or abilities selected, and the same adornments attached to them because they are the 'best' adornments, will there be any difference between a Guardian and a Warden?

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Atama

desoquaddub wrote: »

who wants 8 i didn't backed for 8 regular classes if they had said 8 classes too choose from i would've bought the cbt founders packs lol

They literally said 8 main classes. They’ve never said anything else. What are you blathering about.

desoquaddub

Atama wrote: »

desoquaddub wrote: »

who wants 8 i didn't backed for 8 regular classes if they had said 8 classes too choose from i would've bought the cbt founders packs lol

They literally said 8 main classes. They’ve never said anything else. What are you blathering about.

in your small mind theres 8

Undead Canuck

There are only 8. If you notice, the other 56 subclasses are combinations of the 8 classes.
Read over the grid. On the top and the side, all 8 are the same.

desoquaddub

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

There are only 8. If you notice, the other 56 subclasses are combinations of the 8 classes.
Read over the grid. On the top and the side, all 8 are the same.

i see 64

Undead Canuck

Subclasses

Atama

desoquaddub wrote: »

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

There are only 8. If you notice, the other 56 subclasses are combinations of the 8 classes.
Read over the grid. On the top and the side, all 8 are the same.

i see 64

So if you understood the world better then you’d make better decisions. That makes sense.

Dygz

(8 Archetypes)² = 64 Classes

Damokles

Dygz wrote: »

(8 Archetypes)² = 64 Classes

(8 Classes)^2 = 64Subclasses

T Elf

Considering that the most current info is that secondary classes don't come into play until level 30; you are basically only playing the 8 classes.

desoquaddub

T Elf wrote: »

Considering that the most current info is that secondary classes don't come into play until level 30; you are basically only playing the 8 classes.

those 8 classes you guys so proud of dont mean anything until you double down on the same class technically is 56 classes

Damokles

desoquaddub wrote: »

T Elf wrote: »

Considering that the most current info is that secondary classes don't come into play until level 30; you are basically only playing the 8 classes.

those 8 classes you guys so proud of dont mean anything until you double down on the same class technically is 56 classes

1. We are not "proud" to have 8 classes, it is pretty much a fact and we cant change it, so we accepted it.
2. Why do you think it is 64 classes? We have 8 main classes, that each can then specialise into one of 8 other subclasses. A weapon master (fighter/fighter) and a shadowblade (fighter/rogue) will still be a fighter at heart and they will still do the same thing. The main difference between those two for example will be the execution of that task! Intrepid wants the fighter to be that fighting genius ala. D&D, slicing through the enemy lines and wreacking havoc upon the enemies.

Lets look upon how they could achieve that:
The ONE skill we actually know about for the fighter is "Rush" - Rush toward a target; and upon reaching the target, deal an amount damage with a chance to knock the target down.

Example for Weapon Master augmentation:
Bladerush - Rush toward the target, striking all enemies you pass and inflicting a bleed effect on them, knock down all enemies surrounding the target in a 2m radius.
Example for Shadowblade augmentation:
Shadowrush - Rush towards the target through the shadows. User is untargettable during travel. Once you reach the target slow them for x% for 3sec.

All three abilities achieve the same thing in different ways. Bladerush doubles down on the idea of the basic Rush, while Shadowrush incorporates the basic design of a rogue (keeping to the shadows and isolating a target).

desoquaddub

Damokles wrote: »

desoquaddub wrote: »

T Elf wrote: »

Considering that the most current info is that secondary classes don't come into play until level 30; you are basically only playing the 8 classes.

those 8 classes you guys so proud of dont mean anything until you double down on the same class technically is 56 classes

1. We are not "proud" to have 8 classes, it is pretty much a fact and we cant change it, so we accepted it.
2. Why do you think it is 64 classes? We have 8 main classes, that each can then specialise into one of 8 other subclasses. A weapon master (fighter/fighter) and a shadowblade (fighter/rogue) will still be a fighter at heart and they will still do the same thing. The main difference between those two for example will be the execution of that task! Intrepid wants the fighter to be that fighting genius ala. D&D, slicing through the enemy lines and wreacking havoc upon the enemies.

Lets look upon how they could achieve that:
The ONE skill we actually know about for the fighter is "Rush" - Rush toward a target; and upon reaching the target, deal an amount damage with a chance to knock the target down.

Example for Weapon Master augmentation:
Bladerush - Rush toward the target, striking all enemies you pass and inflicting a bleed effect on them, knock down all enemies surrounding the target in a 2m radius.
Example for Shadowblade augmentation:
Shadowrush - Rush towards the target through the shadows. User is untargettable during travel. Once you reach the target slow them for x% for 3sec.

All three abilities achieve the same thing in different ways. Bladerush doubles down on the idea of the basic Rush, while Shadowrush incorporates the basic design of a rogue (keeping to the shadows and isolating a target).

i want you to know thats too much reading i dah just read the first sentence n the last sentence at the bottom n that lets me know what your talking about

unknownsystemerror

Count DeMoney: It is said the people are revolting!
King Louis: You said it! They stink on ice.

Gimlog

From what i understood from last live Q&A there is 8 classes whit 9 way to play each !

Every archetype can choose between 8 sub classes or none , if you pick one and us only augment from religion , race , guilds ect

From my point of view there are more than 64 play styles in AoC.

Dygz

Damokles wrote: »

(8 Classes)^2 = 64Subclasses

Those are not the terms the devs use.
Ashes has 8 primary archetypes and 64 classes, per official terminology.

Damokles

Dygz wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

(8 Classes)^2 = 64Subclasses

Those are not the terms the devs use.
Ashes has 8 primary archetypes and 64 classes, per official terminology.

That terminology is also nearly 2 years old with no further confirmation. They already said that some mevhanics or terms, like the idea that secondary classes grow stats further, was removed. The sme could be the case for this.

Dygz

There is no evidence that it has changed.

Ventharien

8 Solid classes are just fine. Damage mitigation, support, and damage; both magical and physical. Throw in the secondaries to alter exactly how they accomplish their job, while also being able to change that secondary? Sounds good to me. My only worry is they've already said that change won't be a necessarily quick thing, and i don't want the raids or dungeons to become, "only bring x role to this fight."

Caeryl

It depends how in-depth the augments are.

Will a subclass augment change the baseline functionality of an ability? Can we add an augment from a social organization onto it to make minor changes like damage type? Will a social organization augment completely overwrite the subclass augment? Will subclass augments be stronger or have more general use than social org augments? If a social augment is super niche, in what situation will it be better than a subclass aug?

I’m hoping the subclass augments do entire overhauls on abilities functionality, and that social org augments will minorly tweak those altered abilities.

Ex: A Tank would have an ability that bashes an enemy with their shield that can stun. A Tank/Rogue would have a dash that leads into a shield bash that can stun. A Tank/Rogue with an augment from the Thieve’s Guild would have a dash that leads into bash with a shield or 1H weapons that can stun.

Noaani

Caeryl wrote: »

Ex: A Tank would have an ability that bashes an enemy with their shield that can stun. A Tank/Rogue would have a dash that leads into a shield bash that can stun. A Tank/Rogue with an augment from the Thieve’s Guild would have a dash that leads into bash with a shield or 1H weapons that can stun.

Two things we do not know.
Is there an allowance to have an augment from our secondary class as well as an augment from a social organization, religion, race or other factor on an ability at the same time?
Second, are augments gained from non subclass avenues specific to class (meaning they would need to make 64 every time they want to have one as a reward), or will it be primary class specific (meaning they need to make 8 every time they want to reward one).

If neither of these above are true - and I suspect this would be the case - then a tank/ranger with that augment from the Thieves Guild would then have the exact same ability as the tank/rogue with that augment from the thieves guild.
If this is the case, then in terms of that specific ability, secondary class really doesn't matter. If there are enough such augments to load out a class completely, secondary class may well not matter at all.

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