Ravudha wrote: » consultant wrote: » Subset of players that play MOBAs that are not limited to 5v5 brackets is...........drum role pls.............Way over 100 million players. 1. If the subset of 100+ million players that will also play AoC is 0.00001%, that's 1000 players and probably not worth it. 2. If you manage to attracted any significant number of players from the 100+ million by promoting arenas, then it adds a player base to AoC that generally focuses on arenas. It's the wrong player base to attract since AoC needs a thriving population that participates actively in the open world.
consultant wrote: » Subset of players that play MOBAs that are not limited to 5v5 brackets is...........drum role pls.............Way over 100 million players.
Wandering Mist wrote: » Ravudha wrote: » consultant wrote: » Subset of players that play MOBAs that are not limited to 5v5 brackets is...........drum role pls.............Way over 100 million players. 1. If the subset of 100+ million players that will also play AoC is 0.00001%, that's 1000 players and probably not worth it. 2. If you manage to attracted any significant number of players from the 100+ million by promoting arenas, then it adds a player base to AoC that generally focuses on arenas. It's the wrong player base to attract since AoC needs a thriving population that participates actively in the open world. You make it sound like players are fixated on a single game type. While there are players out there that only play one specific sub-genre of game, in my experience they aren't the norm.
Ravudha wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » Ravudha wrote: » consultant wrote: » Subset of players that play MOBAs that are not limited to 5v5 brackets is...........drum role pls.............Way over 100 million players. 1. If the subset of 100+ million players that will also play AoC is 0.00001%, that's 1000 players and probably not worth it. 2. If you manage to attracted any significant number of players from the 100+ million by promoting arenas, then it adds a player base to AoC that generally focuses on arenas. It's the wrong player base to attract since AoC needs a thriving population that participates actively in the open world. You make it sound like players are fixated on a single game type. While there are players out there that only play one specific sub-genre of game, in my experience they aren't the norm. Not at all. That's why I said a player base that 'generally focuses on arenas' instead of 'exclusively focuses', and it's conditional on them being the ones attracted by marketing/promoting arenas in the first place. Of course there's wiggle room for people who enjoy arenas and other MMO activities.
Caeryl wrote: » Ravudha wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » Ravudha wrote: » consultant wrote: » Subset of players that play MOBAs that are not limited to 5v5 brackets is...........drum role pls.............Way over 100 million players. 1. If the subset of 100+ million players that will also play AoC is 0.00001%, that's 1000 players and probably not worth it. 2. If you manage to attracted any significant number of players from the 100+ million by promoting arenas, then it adds a player base to AoC that generally focuses on arenas. It's the wrong player base to attract since AoC needs a thriving population that participates actively in the open world. You make it sound like players are fixated on a single game type. While there are players out there that only play one specific sub-genre of game, in my experience they aren't the norm. Not at all. That's why I said a player base that 'generally focuses on arenas' instead of 'exclusively focuses', and it's conditional on them being the ones attracted by marketing/promoting arenas in the first place. Of course there's wiggle room for people who enjoy arenas and other MMO activities. Based on your previous posts, it seems like you believe the arenas will be purely PvP with little else, but that's incorrect. Maps have to have more interest besides hiding spots otherwise you end up with more avoidance than aggression. Objectives to force players to fight are key for a decent arena experience, and that will end up being very much like League. With the camera orientation, maybe describing it as more Smite-like would be more accurate. Regardless of which MOBA it'll take after, there's not a doubt in my mind there will be detailed maps made for arena play with "PvE" objectives. Deathmatches are fun for a little bit, but they get dull, especially when there is very little option for alternate builds or playstyles when the only objective is "Be a Murder Hobo".
Caeryl wrote: » Based on your previous posts, it seems like you believe the arenas will be purely PvP with little else, but that's incorrect. Maps have to have more interest besides hiding spots otherwise you end up with more avoidance than aggression. Objectives to force players to fight are key for a decent arena experience, and that will end up being very much like League. With the camera orientation, maybe describing it as more Smite-like would be more accurate. Regardless of which MOBA it'll take after, there's not a doubt in my mind there will be detailed maps made for arena play with "PvE" objectives. Deathmatches are fun for a little bit, but they get dull, especially when there is very little option for alternate builds or playstyles when the only objective is "Be a Murder Hobo".
noaani wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Ravudha wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » Ravudha wrote: » consultant wrote: » Subset of players that play MOBAs that are not limited to 5v5 brackets is...........drum role pls.............Way over 100 million players. 1. If the subset of 100+ million players that will also play AoC is 0.00001%, that's 1000 players and probably not worth it. 2. If you manage to attracted any significant number of players from the 100+ million by promoting arenas, then it adds a player base to AoC that generally focuses on arenas. It's the wrong player base to attract since AoC needs a thriving population that participates actively in the open world. You make it sound like players are fixated on a single game type. While there are players out there that only play one specific sub-genre of game, in my experience they aren't the norm. Not at all. That's why I said a player base that 'generally focuses on arenas' instead of 'exclusively focuses', and it's conditional on them being the ones attracted by marketing/promoting arenas in the first place. Of course there's wiggle room for people who enjoy arenas and other MMO activities. Based on your previous posts, it seems like you believe the arenas will be purely PvP with little else, but that's incorrect. Maps have to have more interest besides hiding spots otherwise you end up with more avoidance than aggression. Objectives to force players to fight are key for a decent arena experience, and that will end up being very much like League. With the camera orientation, maybe describing it as more Smite-like would be more accurate. Regardless of which MOBA it'll take after, there's not a doubt in my mind there will be detailed maps made for arena play with "PvE" objectives. Deathmatches are fun for a little bit, but they get dull, especially when there is very little option for alternate builds or playstyles when the only objective is "Be a Murder Hobo". Can you consider something - anything - to be a PvE objective if the actual objective of adding it to a game in the first place is to force players in to PvP? IMO, if something has no purpose outside of PvP, then it is PvP concent.
Ravudha wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Based on your previous posts, it seems like you believe the arenas will be purely PvP with little else, but that's incorrect. Maps have to have more interest besides hiding spots otherwise you end up with more avoidance than aggression. Objectives to force players to fight are key for a decent arena experience, and that will end up being very much like League. With the camera orientation, maybe describing it as more Smite-like would be more accurate. Regardless of which MOBA it'll take after, there's not a doubt in my mind there will be detailed maps made for arena play with "PvE" objectives. Deathmatches are fun for a little bit, but they get dull, especially when there is very little option for alternate builds or playstyles when the only objective is "Be a Murder Hobo". The way you described it is the way I picture it (and hope for) too. Where I draw a distinction is I see the MMO arena and MOBAs as quite different products, even if the arena was designed just like LoL. This is just because the arena is wrapped in a package alongside a subscription, PvE activities required to get gear (since you can't only arena to get the best gear), a longer levelling curve, etc.
Karthos wrote: » League of Legends is trash and so are the people who play it. Let's avoid making AoC into smoldering garbage please.
leonerdo wrote: » Karthos wrote: » League of Legends is trash and so are the people who play it. Let's avoid making AoC into smoldering garbage please. Hey I still enjoy League... sort of. And I'm pretty sure only 2-3 quarters of the the playerbase are angry gremlins fueled by fake internet points and the incessant desire to win without working for it.
Wandering Mist wrote: » leonerdo wrote: » Karthos wrote: » League of Legends is trash and so are the people who play it. Let's avoid making AoC into smoldering garbage please. Hey I still enjoy League... sort of. And I'm pretty sure only 2-3 quarters of the the playerbase are angry gremlins fueled by fake internet points and the incessant desire to win without working for it. You know, back when I played LoL I spent a great deal of time analysing the psychology of the players and had some interesting revelations. The long and the short of it is that perspective is a huge deal, and a lot of LoL players have a bad habit of making judgements based on incomplete information. I saw this all the time on the LoL forums, where someone would make a thread complaining about how rubbish their teammates are , how many trolls they get in their matches, etc etc. Instead of taking what they said at face value I went and watched the replays of the matches they were talking about, and more often than not the person complaining on the forums was very misinformed. From my experience, the majority of toxicity in LoL stems from miscommunication and judgements based on incomplete information. That said, none of this has anything to do with putting gameplay elements and design from LoL into Ashes of Creation, so the point is moot.
noaani wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » leonerdo wrote: » Karthos wrote: » League of Legends is trash and so are the people who play it. Let's avoid making AoC into smoldering garbage please. Hey I still enjoy League... sort of. And I'm pretty sure only 2-3 quarters of the the playerbase are angry gremlins fueled by fake internet points and the incessant desire to win without working for it. You know, back when I played LoL I spent a great deal of time analysing the psychology of the players and had some interesting revelations. The long and the short of it is that perspective is a huge deal, and a lot of LoL players have a bad habit of making judgements based on incomplete information. I saw this all the time on the LoL forums, where someone would make a thread complaining about how rubbish their teammates are , how many trolls they get in their matches, etc etc. Instead of taking what they said at face value I went and watched the replays of the matches they were talking about, and more often than not the person complaining on the forums was very misinformed. From my experience, the majority of toxicity in LoL stems from miscommunication and judgements based on incomplete information. That said, none of this has anything to do with putting gameplay elements and design from LoL into Ashes of Creation, so the point is moot. Just for another point that doesn't necessarily fit in this thread - the above is why I want to see an in game combat tracker. The better info players have easy access to, the fewer this type of thing will happen. It won't stop it (nothing will), but it will slow it down.
Wandering Mist wrote: » People take data in the simplest form, either unwilling or unable to look past the first layer.
noaani wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » People take data in the simplest form, either unwilling or unable to look past the first layer. Absolutely. To me though, first layer data is anything obtained in game. If you have to go to a replay, or go to a seperate parsing application, that is no longer the first layer of data. Take a combat tracker (note I am not saying DPS meter), award players points for damage output, healing output, incoming damage mitigation, dodging and blocking, buffs applied to appropriate classes, CC landed, effects cured etc, and then remove points for CC broken, avoidable damage taken, environmental damage taken, direct damage taken by non-tanks, over healing, buffs applied to inappropriate classes etc. All of a sudden, the first layer of data players have is basically a score of over all effectiveness, both the good and the bad. Good luck blaming the wrong person then. I'm not sure whether I totally support this kind of thing, but if it is implemented in conjunction with a full, in depth combat tracker, all it basically is - when broken down - is the same conclusion someone that knows how to assess the full data set would come to.
Wandering Mist wrote: » noaani wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » People take data in the simplest form, either unwilling or unable to look past the first layer. Absolutely. To me though, first layer data is anything obtained in game. If you have to go to a replay, or go to a seperate parsing application, that is no longer the first layer of data. Take a combat tracker (note I am not saying DPS meter), award players points for damage output, healing output, incoming damage mitigation, dodging and blocking, buffs applied to appropriate classes, CC landed, effects cured etc, and then remove points for CC broken, avoidable damage taken, environmental damage taken, direct damage taken by non-tanks, over healing, buffs applied to inappropriate classes etc. All of a sudden, the first layer of data players have is basically a score of over all effectiveness, both the good and the bad. Good luck blaming the wrong person then. I'm not sure whether I totally support this kind of thing, but if it is implemented in conjunction with a full, in depth combat tracker, all it basically is - when broken down - is the same conclusion someone that knows how to assess the full data set would come to. And we're back to awarding points to individuals in team-based gameplay, which I am vehemently against.
consultant wrote: » At this point I would recommend to the devs to play this game just for educational purposes learning about how the abilities and other game mechanics work. I have only played 21 champions some of them only ounce have 44 of them that being the case my knowledge of the game is limited cause they have almost 150 champions and I only played 21 of them. Spend most of the time palying faovorites. I already posted a lot about it but lets take it from a different angle League of Legends Version of Implosion would be an area effect charge ability 2 seconds does damage over time right away when charge is complete then implosion takes place pulling target to center. So player could avoid most of the damage but mage would have to stop holding down the button right before the opposing player left the area of effect. So mage has to pay attention. Chain lightning would be area of effect with eight charges oveer 8 seconds If you change target or target dies then have chance to change target for more damage. Or could be done by number of times you push the button key binded to chain lightning Wall of Force get to pick location of Wall of force near or far away from the caster. Actually may already be that way but does not look like it in the videos. Now let me mention two other abiltities Mecha Zion Zero transforms into a train and then charges for 8 seconds but you have to guide the train or hits walls or obstacles prematurely. Stops when it hits other toons or can be stopped manually by pressing ability button again. In Ashes of creation game it could be a very fast guided delayed blast fire ball. Also same champion has shield that explodes and causes damage if not used. Champion Looks like different version of Optimus Prime. Still have over 100 Champoins i have not even played.Skill shots are pretty cool but the problem with skill shots is they can be avioded every time if good enough So in LoL some abilties have cast times but you can actually change the direction of or place of area of effect during cast time. Matter of fact one ability is like a guided laser that you move around with mouse. But there are other things to mention like facing values. but think be better if you guys studied this game a bit instead. It is unreal to me what Riot does with ailities. Hopefully at leason one person at IS plays this game.
