Dev Discussion #17 - Non-Progression Content

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  • Jump puzzles from guild wars 2 were awesome, especially if they came with good rewards for challenging puzzles.
  • LoganLogan Member
    Standing around in a group watching people take turns dueling!
  • halbarzhalbarz Member
    edited April 14

    Dev Discussion #17 - Non-Progression Content
    What are some of your favorite things to do in online games that aren’t progression-related?

    Keep an eye out for our next Dev Discussion topic regarding class demarcation!

    1) - community events (I love it when the community organizes events: A Market, playing music, etc) Look at lord of the rings online as an example. (give guilds or groups tools to organize these (in-game message board at the taverns, stages to perform, etc.)

    2) - Social interacting: MMORPG's are also about being social & living in a world with everyone else.
    - ----> MMO's these days are often creating an even more anti social behavior. So let people talk and do not put every little thing behind another menu or popup.
    - ----> Allow people to create custom channels; example ( /createchannel TeamMango Butter (Butter is the password, TeamMango is the channel name) now me and several friends have our own channel without being in the same guild. This is also a great way for guilds to create Friends of the Guild channels where they players get access to this based on invite for example.

    3) - Housing, decorating my house , just relaxing in it with the windows open listening to the in-game music.

    4) - Taverns: Make taverns interesting and not just another building along the road. Taverns should have message boards promoting activities in the game (community related, guild advertising, etc) Have NPC bands traveling around the world playing music that people can go visit and dance.

    5) - Exploring: Exploring is often seen as let's go visit that vista for an achievement but for me and many others exploring is about just running into the wild and being able to just run for hours around finding the most random things or places (actual vistas) that are just stunning ... Get that camera out people, it's selfie time :wink:

    6) - cosmetics: Fashion wars has always been something I enjoy ! So gives me dyes and cloths to wear and combine. :smiley:

    7) - Patrolling: I just love running around and patrolling enemy movements or incoming events. It gives a thrill that you could be found but also is a way of being helpful and working together.


    Side note: I have focused a lot on social things in my post, this is mainly because I believe that in recent years MMO's have taken away the sense of community, collaboration, etc. and instead make it all about rotation, dps, and often being selfish. As this is often a quick cash in for companies as well (these players often tend to jump ship fast) Ashes of Creation for me has the opportunity to really build a social, living and open world. That will keep mmorpg fans interested for many years because many of us play the game not for the content always but for the community. Not everyone is as social but this is something that is their choice and maybe even those people find a few friends in game this way :smiley:

    Sorry for the long post

  • Exploring an area and harvesting - simply going round gathering all and every harvestable item I can...sometimes I do this for a couple of hours or a whole afternoon and don't actually 'progress' in anything - but I find it incredibly peaceful. Yes I of course everything does go into my bank/bag, but I suspect I'd still do this even if I gained nothing from it...the peaceful activity is enough.
  • AethianAethian Member
    I love exploration and discovery. Finding little bits of lore scattered throughout the game. Nothing that is vital to current story progression, but tales of the past, possibly before the apocalypse. Archaeology would be really cool for this game, as i feel there are centuries of civilization sitting beneath the earth and rubble
  • consultantconsultant Member
    edited April 15
    Well would like to say that Ashes looks pretty good in this department. One thing I want to point out is Naval combat not sure what level that is going to be available. But it looks like we are going to be able to get in a fishing boat and go out fishing. And get in a boat or ship and travel to an island for exploration. That being the case it makes Verra feel like an actual world rather than one huge land mass that feels more like a box to explore. Plus lots of other features like no fast travel no instant que huge servers means you will feel a sense of travel in the game and run into more people going from point a to point b. So Ashes has a huge lead already compared to other MMOs forgot plus low flying.

    The way it was worded was non progerssive online games (not MMOs) so....Really like blowing up space aliens to smithereens that are trying to invade the planet. How this translates into MMO since I play a Pally is fighting against armies of undead. But really it could be anything this type of content kind makes me feel like I am fullfilling my duty in defending my Node (in case of this game). We are already going to have events.
    But lets say we had to defend against undead armies (no offense intended for Nagash) for lets say three months and at end of three months there is a great battle that would be the kind of thing im into.

    But think the real intention of your question is how to get people more immersed in the game. Well one thing you could do is put clues and important imformation in quests so people would be more inclined to actually read them. I think the people that take the time post on this subject already read quests and already into immersion. So problem is how to get people that are mostly into dungeouns and raids(hack and slash D&D term) to enjoy the finer aspects of the game. As stated previously one day started reading quests and and it raised immersions levels to new heights total game changer. One idea was to make it part of leveling process.

    But the most enjoyment I ever had was actually incidental. I did not get Mist of Pandara right away cause did not like so I was level 85 while most people went to level 90. But as it turned out there was a group of people big enough at level 85 to do random bgs. But here is what happened.

    1)There was very little reward for random bgs. So only people that wanted to play random bgs for the fun it played or fellow pvpers.

    2)All the bots went to level 90.

    3)Group was small enough that you would sometimes play against the same players and therefore had rivals.

    It was just random bgs so winning or losing was less meaningful but games were more fun.

    Que times were a lot longer but worth the wait To play with likeminded players. 14 min to 30 min

    And that is when the light bulb in my head was lit up and made me realize how instant que ruins bgs Eventually got next expansion and expereince was like night and day. Although this is the real answer to your question. Most likely not to helpful cause probably thinking in terms of open world plus Game already has no instant que.

    As far the open world in MMOs Think The Timeless Isle from WoW level 90 was pretty good but that area was pretty small so while it was lots of fun at first after a while just got tired of being in the same area or box all the time need change of scenery. Key point there it was a no fly zone.

    Just wanted to emphasize that think content is going to really good just poeple are not into some of the finer aspects of MMOs. For example fishing can be fun espically if you fish up quests and treasure maps and rare items. and lets say there is deep sea fishing and have chance to run into giant squid. But if players have the mind set of just doing dungeouns and raids than most likely will not do that content. Even though it maybe very good.

  • KisaKisa Member
    I just hope there's a lot of cute outfits to collect/buy/craft lol!!
  • Hi;

    Well depending on the game , I like to get friends together and do some sort of fun activity just for a laugh. This depends on the game. In Star citizen we do boxing tournaments for a laugh. In ESO we try to find the highest points we can to dive into water, and have diving comps....all just for a laugh with friends.
  • So I'm not 100% sure of everything that encompasses "progression", but I'm just considering it anything that increases level/stats/storyline.

    Things I spend way too much time doing in other games while the big bad boss destroys the world:


    Hunting Collectibles: Whether this is a minion, mount skin, or special title, I've always loved collecting as many as I can. In [most] games these don't add anything to your character and just give you some cool bragging rights.

    It's Called Fashion Honey, Look it Up: I've played a variety of MMO's and let me tell you I (A.) love games that allow you to "glamour" gear to look the way you like without reducing stats, but (B.) will, with a little sigh, be weak and defenseless in order to look nice. I've played many many MMO's and if glamour is coming to this game I highly recommended taking a "if you had this item at some point you can glamour another piece of gear" type of system. My main game is FFXIV and although it's glamour system is cool, I am constantly juggling with my storage to the point I've thrown out gear that I once worked really hard to get simply because I didn't have any more room for it. Recently started playing ESO, and played a tiny bit of WoW, and even though I've spent 1/1000th of my time in these games compared to FFXIV, I love their glamour systems so much more.

    Screenshots: Taking pictures with friends in cool environments, after you defeat an epic boss, or just because you're all having a good time, is something I do on a regular basis. Picking the right outfit, pose, and filters really can take a lot of your time without you even realizing it.

    Reading Lore: Whenever I'm either just really curious or need a break from the constant cycle of leveling, farming, crafting, gathering, etc sometimes I like to just sit back and read the lore of the story or environment.

    Map Exploration: Once I know how to get from point A to point B I usually take the same path over and over. However, I know there are plenty of times where I'll pass something I passed a million times and try to scale a mountain, or see what's at the end of that river, or maybe this cave goes deeper than what I originally thought from the outside. Sometimes it's nice to just explore the wilderness without the real life threat of hypothermia or being mauled.

    Community Events: I love throwing community events as well as attending them. I just recently held a scavenger hunt for some of my fellow faction members and we all had a really good time. I've also attended parades that were put together by different guilds, a group of people held an RP trick or treat festival in the housing district and upon visiting each house they gave out various treats, and other events like that.

    NPC Relationships: Now this one is a very "Black Desert Online"/"Animal Crossing" type thing where I really enjoy talking to NPC's enough/getting to know them more that they slowly become my friends/offer small discounts/more lore information. It's something I never really see, but it makes me happy to see them happy and enjoying my company.

    DECORATING MY HOUSE: There is nothing as satisfying as finding a set of furniture that looks so good together that when you have guests over they stop and compliment it. I've probably spent literal weeks (not all at once) worth of time decorating and furnishing my house and changing its theme based on the seasons and holidays.
  • sivannasivanna Member, Pioneer
    I love taking screenshots, so everything that revolves around that!
    Collecting cosmetics (outfits, pets, hairstyles, emotes, etc.)
    Scouting the map for picturesque scenery
    Holiday events, especially ones that add or change the environment
    community get-togethers (fishing tournaments, dueling events, "farmers" market, Horse races)
    Decorating my freehold/house. Not just cosmetics, but the whole ability to place things where I want them and possibly change the layout of my house.
    (In Black Desert we would often throw parties in people's houses while waiting for activities.)
  • RyuujiRyuuji Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    halbarz wrote: »

    Dev Discussion #17 - Non-Progression Content
    What are some of your favorite things to do in online games that aren’t progression-related?

    Keep an eye out for our next Dev Discussion topic regarding class demarcation!

    1) - community events (I love it when the community organizes events: A Market, playing music, etc) Look at lord of the rings online as an example. (give guilds or groups tools to organize these (in-game message board at the taverns, stages to perform, etc.)

    2) - Social interacting: MMORPG's are also about being social & living in a world with everyone else.
    - ----> MMO's these days are often creating an even more anti social behavior. So let people talk and do not put every little thing behind another menu or popup.
    - ----> Allow people to create custom channels; example ( /createchannel TeamMango Butter (Butter is the password, TeamMango is the channel name) now me and several friends have our own channel without being in the same guild. This is also a great way for guilds to create Friends of the Guild channels where they players get access to this based on invite for example.

    3) - Housing, decorating my house , just relaxing in it with the windows open listening to the in-game music.

    4) - Taverns: Make taverns interesting and not just another building along the road. Taverns should have message boards promoting activities in the game (community related, guild advertising, etc) Have NPC bands traveling around the world playing music that people can go visit and dance.

    5) - Exploring: Exploring is often seen as let's go visit that vista for an achievement but for me and many others exploring is about just running into the wild and being able to just run for hours around finding the most random things or places (actual vistas) that are just stunning ... Get that camera out people, it's selfie time :wink:

    6) - cosmetics: Fashion wars has always been something I enjoy ! So gives me dyes and cloths to wear and combine. :smiley:

    7) - Patrolling: I just love running around and patrolling enemy movements or incoming events. It gives a thrill that you could be found but also is a way of being helpful and working together.


    Side note: I have focused a lot on social things in my post, this is mainly because I believe that in recent years MMO's have taken away the sense of community, collaboration, etc. and instead make it all about rotation, dps, and often being selfish. As this is often a quick cash in for companies as well (these players often tend to jump ship fast) Ashes of Creation for me has the opportunity to really build a social, living and open world. That will keep mmorpg fans interested for many years because many of us play the game not for the content always but for the community. Not everyone is as social but this is something that is their choice and maybe even those people find a few friends in game this way :smiley:

    Sorry for the long post

    best example of social part of game i think
  • I like to either go for a side achievement that will give me something unique to brag about like a strange tile on my name or mount. Or start a war like scenario, where we start fighting others until both sides have a group that are fighting.
  • runestonerunestone Member
    edited April 16
    Definitely exploring every crack and crevice of the world.
    Just never know if you are going to stumble on a story lost to the world somewhere, with a tale that was never told.
    Makes me kind of sad that such should be the case.
    Plus the individual stories may themselves be part of a puzzle to a bigger story that fills in the blanks in some way.
    Its like a detective story, filling in the blanks from bits of evidence you find strewn around. Where the voices of the dead can no longer speak for themselves.
    Sometimes even the living hide secrets, reluctant to tell, unless they know that you know to some degree.

    Other than that, generally frolicking around with the ability to be stupid, and do dumb things with others, is generally a relief. All work and no play I guess.

    Ah and sometimes to just sit and watch wildlife.....live...and the weather do its thing.
  • IshkaIshka Member
    Well, I like to practice my class by hitting a practice dummies or specific monsters to find various rotations and ways to succeed more efficiently with a goal or "abilities restrictions". A bit of theorycraft to push my efficiency possibly deeper.

    In a similar way, I duel a lot since it helps knowing classes and how to fight them, but in the end, it's mostly because I like to duel. Especially with friends and guildmates; we all try to become stronger and gives each other tips and observations on our gameplay, we gather together for training sessions that can last for hours. To train further, we also do small group fights like 2v2, 3v3 etc... with different class composition, we try to find potential combos that could be executed in very specific situations.
    Basically I try to master the game pvp wise in a lot of ways. Even tho' I can rarely put those very specific plans into actions, sometimes it proves useful when the chance arise.

    I also wander a bit and explore specific locations that interest me (always with pvp in mind). Knowing the map is very helpful and can be an advantage in different pvp formats.
  • Thanks all for sharing your feedback on this latest Dev Discussion topic - I'm compiling your notes now for the team!

    We'll see ya for the next Dev Discussion, but please feel free to keep chiming in here in the meantime! <3
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  • DayuhanDayuhan Member
    Seeking out the secrets of the land, wandering off the beaten path to areas seldom/never visited to see what might be lurking there. Discovering secrets of the land, a certain race, a new (or rare) animal or plant, finding a historical book that fills in the blanks of the past - or reveals some new twist to something that was "common knowledge".
  • BlappoBlappo Member
    Hmm it depends on what you define as progression...

    Gathering crafting components would progress your ability to craft more items
    farming food, could progress you
    even decorating your house, could progress your prestige in that community...
    But thats digging pretty deep into the weeds...

    I honestly outside of progression havent experience what i would like to do.

    I would like to live in the world.

    I want to go to a restaurant, to buy food not because it fills my hunger bar, but so i can sit and have a Role played meal with a friend or 2, eat food, which fills my hunger, but also fills different nutritional needs, and flavor needs.

    Consider why you eat food, because different types of food benefit you differently being deficient in certain nutrients would hinder you, but most games eating bread 100000 times in a row will sustain you so why spend money on better foods, We also eat for flavor... imagine having a flavor scale, when dropping too low it reduces your ability to eat the same boring food, 100 consumption of bread in a row i wouldnt eat till im full, i would stop early, thus reducing my ability to get nutrition, until im truely hungry

    While i dont think these are neccessary or should be a "large" focus of a game, i do think the eat this food gain this benefit for 30 minutes is dumb and antiquated.

    I just think it would be cool to have some mechanics in the game address things like why are there no restaurants or even... PLAYER RUN restaruants in MMORPG... they are whole worlds... but 90% of them are empty buildings crafting buildings, vast empty landscape, and monsters to smack with sticks.... the life of the worlds dont exist...

    SO non progression actions... mostly anything you would see in reality.. restaurants, that have some purpose, casinos, post office, theater- to watch cenematics or have some way to view streams or youtubers who play the game wowzers, horse racing, where players race horses and players bet on the races , ... develop a sport and put in a stadium for us to play... think final fantasy 10 that sport you played was a mini game but had they done a bit more with it would have been so replayable. Or even a quiditch or something... it doesnt have to be the best ever, just a lark for players, and maybe add uniforms for a variety of teams to be formed and truely put on a league inside the game... wow
    Jousting, "race around the world" a group of players run from city A to city B with some added fun along the way. investments market... (could be dangerous if not heavily balanced), raising animals/pets with life cycles and permadeath. farming, raising farm animals logging, building, planting flowers trees bushes ect open world, open world decoration, adventurers guild - newby center/group that is run by players to assist newbs not to be a real guild, just a group that aids others and does their own fun activities to stimulate newbs into trying new things. theater - again, a place where players could use avatars to put on plays or perhaps play instruments (if you could find a good way to emulate instruments well)
    Vacation resorts, would be neat to do some RP of taking a break... if there were some sanity or stress metric that you needed some time off from murder to regen lolz


    I think i have put enough out there to express my non progression style of play desires.
  • StrongholdStronghold Member
    edited April 18
    My favorite thing is to see new territories, new regions at map, so i belive the main map would be extendable in order to play a long time. It won't be enough how big map is, we'll go through it anyway. You may have an enormously big map, let's say a theoretical 10.000 km2, but only %10 of it 1.000 km2 will be the main map when game launched. %90 of the whole map will be uncovered, unaccesible and reserved for future updates, by this means you'd be able to add more territory whenever you want.

    EV5kOpVXQAAyxmK.jpg

  • StrongholdStronghold Member
    edited April 18
    Also I love mini-games; I would like to search and find hidden things in game.
    You may put hidden secret bluprints called "ashes". They are ashes of creation so we create rare things with them.
    There will be 100 different ashes and we collect 10x from a specific one to create a valuable object.
    100 ashes (1 of each) will apear every day at map in random times, until daily reset, then again.
    100 ashes will be divided-equally to following:
    10x in trees, 10x in rocks, 10x in animals, 10x in bosses, 10x in water (river, lake etc), 10x in graves (digging up), 10x in caves (secret caves), 10x in buildings, 10x in NPCs, and 10x in wasteland.
    Some ashes will require specific titles to be able to collect:
    A "grave digger" can only dig graves to get the ash inside.
    A "well-beloved" can acquire the ash from NPC.
    An "eagle eyed" can see the ash lying on wasteland.
    A "water blessed" can catch the ash with fishing.
    A "master-driller" can get the ash when collecting mineral.
    A "self-invited" can find the ash in buildings.
    A "lumber trader" can get the ash from a tree.
    A "hunter-gatherer" can get the ash from animal.
    A "cave explorer" can only find the ash inside the cave.
    A "big boss" title holder can get the ash drop from boss fight.
  • consultantconsultant Member
    edited April 19
    Forgot to mention that I like making gold through professions farming and crafting, and that actions house and farming old dungeouns that are soloable. Be pretty cool if exploration (mobs) were rewarding to some extent plus gold for quests.
  • Just to stand still and admire the beautiful landscape. Preferably on wide meadows, sparkling lakes or on the top of a mountain. Beautiful, adaptive music then makes the moment perfect.
  • halbarzhalbarz Member
    Off topic: When is the next Dev Discussion? :smiley: keeps me busy while sitting at home :smiley:
  • FiastosFiastos Member, Settler
    I had a bit of a random idea, but it would be really fun if once you climbed up a really tall mountain, there would be this sled at the top that you could ride down on. There have been World Quests in World of Warcraft where you do exactly that and there is this Yeti chasing you, while you go down the mountain on the sled, best world quest there is.
    forumsignature.png

    Heroes of Many Expeditions || EU || Exploration Oriented
    Guild Website || Guild forum post
  • JudeJude Member
    Exploring places I've never been to, making online friends and doing PVP with them, doing event quests, changing costumes, taking pictures of my characters striking a pose in beautiful places.
  • Forgot to mention that like many of players I do enjoy questing and exploring but in my case it is about good story lines. Some zones in the same game that is have really good quests and when done with all the quests in that zone you are left wanting more. But other zones really not as interesting. Kind of a night and day experience Some areas really immersive so time just flies by and does not seem so tedious like zones that are less interesting.

    So my post comes out to make good quests and good lore and story lines kind of redundant. But other than finding quests items out in the open world like maps, keys, letters, clues and so one do not have any good suggestions. Although I did mention in prior post soemthing about having writing contests. Colleges are filled with students that take writing classes. Could set it up like in 500 or les make backround for...lets say certain weapon or village, and so on.

    Ounce the games comes out you could have a contest for entire player base but might get lots of entries
  • T ElfT Elf Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited April 29
    1. Housing and filling them
    2. Exploring and scenery *side note in BDO every blade of grass looked lovingly created the flora in that game was absolutely amazing and fascinating.
    3. Holiday events
    4. Cosmetics
    5. Role Play
    eZC6mjP.gif
    Formerly T-Elf

  • onyx215onyx215 Member
    I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to Fantasy lore so during downtime i usually try and read up on stuff that i might have missed, run around the world trying to find bits and pieces that can relate to other stories within the fantasy world.
    Working on my fortune to be, learning the economic trends in-game, manipulate markets for profit maybe.

    Cant forget working on my house of course :)
  • RaeliqRaeliq Member
    I think the biggest thing lacking from MMO scene as of recent is a sense of "community" and direct ties to other players and your faction. I know politics is going to be somewhat progression based in this game with leveling nodes, but other things that aren't directly related to the progression would be great. Faction/Node specific forums(for planning, camaraderie, and banter), Guild Halls and Guild Reputation systems so that you can earn reputation with a guild an not be in that guild, things like that. I want a super Robust Guild System, that feeds into a super Robust faction system.
  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited April 30
    If traps were mini games instead of skill checks I think that would be cool. If unlocking things was based on a difficulty rated puzzle then I think that would be good.

    I know mini games are more of a late pre release thing to add if I consider the history of other releases. Still something to chime in there.

    I also really love platforming in MMOs and skill based mobility challenges like in FPSes I know latency is an issue so they'd have to be a bit easier but I think that would be fun.
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