Dungeon Camping - Guild style

So, this was brought up on Discord and the mods asked we move it away from "questions".
Guild camping a dungeon.
I see someone say it's realistic. My answer....not really.
If a guild camps a dungeon that closes that dungeon off to small groups and guild.
BUT more then that, if you want actual realism then once a guild clears a dungeon, mobs should stop popping. A dungeon cleared and populated with guild members should cease functioning as a dungeon and become a base of operations for the guild.
Maybe after the guild has cleared out and away from the dungeon it would revert to being a dungeon again, maybe give it a random amount of time, say up to 7 days and if someone from that guild enters the entrance of the dungeon the timer resets.

Alternatively maybe more functionality.
For instance, say it was a bandit stronghold. Well higher level bandit groups find out their people have been ousted and plot revenge. Not stupidly throw waves at the guild, but scout them, watch when they are weakest and attack. Maybe even attack from passages the guild did not find.

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George_Black

Razorath wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

It's so funny to see such frightened speculations and fears, while some of us have played L2 mmorpg and we know that it's not a big deal if a guild camps a dungeon.

There might be a bit of pvp. A bit of corruption but at the end of the d.. hour everything returns back to normal and the game isnt rly affected by such guild shenanigans

High end raids will be effected as guilds will want the reward for them selves, if its done similar to L2 with drop system. Normal dungeons will not be affected. For me that is a part of the experience.

Not only that but as soon as the word spreads out that xXx guild is camping a certain area, not letting anyone in, do you know how quickly their enemy guild shows up?
As the two guilds fight everybody else is PvEing, worries free.

That is why this topic shouldnt be used to spread panic.

Noaani

George Black wrote: »

As the two guilds fight everybody else is PvEing, worries free.

This is my thoughts on it too.

There may well be a point to camping a specific mob spawn point if the mob is on a known timed spawn (I hope Intrepid add in enough variation to spawn timers to make this not worth it). However, that is camping one spawn point, not a dungeon.

If for some abstract reason there is a guild camping an entire dungeon (and it would have to be an abstract reason), then as soon as someone comes to challenge them, they are no longer camping, but are now defending. As you say, this leaves the dungeon free to those that want to run the PvE content within.

Since Ashes won't have a lack of players keen for PvP, it won't take long before there is a challenger.

unknownsystemerror

People also forget no fast travel or porting to friends, removing support slowly as each person dies and has to run back. Corruption penalties stacking and removing combat effectiveness, no difference in PVP/PVE stats, so debuffs matter. Reasons to camp a dungeon, proximity to opposing groups that actually want to run said content. There is going to be content that people just will not be able to do because it is too far away. There will be content that appears on one server that doesn't appear on another. Dungeon and raid bosses are planned to have changing, random mechanics, so those that try to say "we are here to get rotations down!" are just kidding themselves. The list goes on and on. Let loose the death grip on those pearls and worry about the real issues at hand, "Can Tulnar have beards?"

Ravudha

DracoKalen wrote: »

So, this was brought up on Discord and the mods asked we move it away from "questions".
Guild camping a dungeon.
I see someone say it's realistic. My answer....not really.

I'm guessing that by 'realistic' they mean 'feasible', not how it mimics cause and effect in reality.

Razor 615

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

People also forget no fast travel or porting to friends, removing support slowly as each person dies and has to run back. Corruption penalties stacking and removing combat effectiveness, no difference in PVP/PVE stats, so debuffs matter. Reasons to camp a dungeon, proximity to opposing groups that actually want to run said content. There is going to be content that people just will not be able to do because it is too far away. There will be content that appears on one server that doesn't appear on another. Dungeon and raid bosses are planned to have changing, random mechanics, so those that try to say "we are here to get rotations down!" are just kidding themselves. The list goes on and on. Let loose the death grip on those pearls and worry about the real issues at hand, "Can Tulnar have beards?"

How many different and how often are they really change the Dungeons and Raid Boss mechanics? Is that something they will continuesly work on? Or will there simply be few different encounters of the same fight? if so eventually people will get all of them down. However i don't think that is an issue really.

Noaani

Razorath wrote: »

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

People also forget no fast travel or porting to friends, removing support slowly as each person dies and has to run back. Corruption penalties stacking and removing combat effectiveness, no difference in PVP/PVE stats, so debuffs matter. Reasons to camp a dungeon, proximity to opposing groups that actually want to run said content. There is going to be content that people just will not be able to do because it is too far away. There will be content that appears on one server that doesn't appear on another. Dungeon and raid bosses are planned to have changing, random mechanics, so those that try to say "we are here to get rotations down!" are just kidding themselves. The list goes on and on. Let loose the death grip on those pearls and worry about the real issues at hand, "Can Tulnar have beards?"

How many different and how often are they really change the Dungeons and Raid Boss mechanics? Is that something they will continuesly work on? Or will there simply be few different encounters of the same fight? if so eventually people will get all of them down. However i don't think that is an issue really.

My assumption with this is that encounters will have a basic structure to them, but details and specifics (such as the damage type, size and footprint of AoEs) will change.

The reason this is what I am assuming here is because Intrepid have said that they want guilds to be able to organize things like raid build and such before a raid were to begin. In order to know what you need in terms of tanks, healers, DPS and such heading in to a raid, you need to know the basics of the encounter - which means those basics can't change.

So, in order for the comments made that Intrepid want guilds to be able to be organized and plan effectively for a raid, there needs to be a limit to how much of an encounter can be randomized.

DracoKalen

It seems like some of you think the mechanics I suggest are new or never been used. This is completely untrue. Back in 2005 games were setting up encounters where you would take out a camp of mobs and then had to survive 3 waves of their friends.
Nothing new, just not the same old kill, loot, camp....wait for it.....POP....kill,loot, camp

Noaani

DracoKalen wrote: »

It seems like some of you think the mechanics I suggest are new or never been used. This is completely untrue. Back in 2005 games were setting up encounters where you would take out a camp of mobs and then had to survive 3 waves of their friends.
Nothing new, just not the same old kill, loot, camp....wait for it.....POP....kill,loot, camp

It's your other suggestion I am mostly claiming is not feasable.

That said, EQ and EQ2 did both have a mechanic where you would kill one wave of specific mobs (often four individual groups around a campsite or some such), then a new wave would spawn that was slightly harder, then anither, and another. This would result in the boss spawning.

These events were refereed to by players as "ring events", as the most well known early one in EQ was used to acquire a specific, desired ring. This the event to obtain that ring was called the ring event.

I can't speak to EQ, but EQ2 stopped having ring events outside of either quest or raid content after the DoF expansion. As a content mechanic, it only worked if players knew it was there and were specifically after the end encounter of the ring event. Also, the fact that eaach wave of the event spawned much faster than encounters around it (and it kind of has to be this way), means that it is not suitable at all to be placed in a corridor.

It straight up wasn't suitable for general content, and so was relegated to quest and raid mechanic only content 15 years ago.

DracoKalen

Well with minimal AI they could make it a lot of fun and certainly make it not worth harvesting

Noaani

DracoKalen wrote: »

Well with minimal AI they could make it a lot of fun and certainly make it not worth harvesting

They can make it fun without AI.

What they can't do, AI or not, is make it fit as content.

Ring events in the open world are almost always ignored. People just move past them before they even realize they are there.

In enclosed spaces, the spawn timer on them means players are in trouble if they don't know about them, as it is common practice to pull mobs back to where you are in an enclosed space, and if you pull mobs back to where a ring event is that you just killed the first wave of, the second wave will spawn right on top of you while you are busy with your next pull.

The only time ring events work is if they are the goal - the end of what you and your group are trying to do. This means either the last boss in a zone or wing of a zone - usually tied to a quest - or an encounter mechanic on a raid.

Ring events are enjoyable in general, if done right. However, AI is not some magical process that makes a piece of content suddenly fit where it doesn't belong.

DracoKalen

Looked around, see nothing about ting events, so really no clue what you're talking about. But functionality that makes a guild earn the right to camp a dungeon is damn well worth it.
Especially since it would give a reprieve from their occupation to allow others to experience the dungeon.

Sarevok

I can't wait to camp a dungeon with the lads, strike up war decs and PvP to our hearts content!

I wonder if there will be a limit to war decs and if there are alliance decs... 🤔

Noaani

DracoKalen wrote: »

Looked around, see nothing about ting events

That is because they were mostly taken out of MMO's 15 years ago.

As has been said though, guilds are not going to be camping dungeons. If they try, it will last an amount of time measured in minutes.

A bigger barrier to people enjoying a specific dungeon would be if there are just too many people in that dungeon. Maybe you should focus on that instead.

Razor 615

Sarevok wrote: »

I can't wait to camp a dungeon with the lads, strike up war decs and PvP to our hearts content!

I wonder if there will be a limit to war decs and if there are alliance decs... 🤔

I can't wait to war dec. your guild and have some good PvP

Noaani

Razorath wrote: »

Sarevok wrote: »

I can't wait to camp a dungeon with the lads, strike up war decs and PvP to our hearts content!

I wonder if there will be a limit to war decs and if there are alliance decs... 🤔

I can't wait to war dec. your guild and have some good PvP

I can't wait to go down the other path in the dungeon with my guild and kill the boss at the end while you two are somewhere else PvP'ing!

Sarevok

Razorath wrote: »

Sarevok wrote: »

I can't wait to camp a dungeon with the lads, strike up war decs and PvP to our hearts content!

I wonder if there will be a limit to war decs and if there are alliance decs... 🤔

I can't wait to war dec. your guild and have some good PvP

Hell yeah!

noaani wrote: »

Razorath wrote: »

Sarevok wrote: »

I can't wait to camp a dungeon with the lads, strike up war decs and PvP to our hearts content!

I wonder if there will be a limit to war decs and if there are alliance decs... 🤔

I can't wait to war dec. your guild and have some good PvP

I can't wait to go down the other path in the dungeon with my guild and kill the boss at the end while you two are somewhere else PvP'ing!

Ha! You think we are just there to PvP? We come for the epic lewts too! Can't strive to be #1 on the server without killing a few dragons and guilds along the way.

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