Vassal Nodes?

I'm not sure if this has been asked or answered before but, is there a set number of vassal nodes a parent node can have? Can a level six node have all of the immediate nodes as level five vassals? Could those level five node then have their surrounding nodes as level four vassals? How deep does this go? Could one node theoretically take over the whole of the map?

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perseus01

I believe the node system works in conjunction with the resources of the land, so it will be drawn up by team and theoretically outlined by the lay of the land and respect to boundaries.
There isn't a level 6 node, a 5th level city can only be surrounded by 4th level towns.
They attribute to the 5th level, in which will only have enough valuable resources surrounding it to make town(s)....so on and so forth.
I hope that made sense.

unknownsystemerror

There is indeed a level 6 node. If you want further understanding on how the system is envisioned from information given so far, check out Ashes101 by Jahlon or consult the wiki here.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes

Alpha Soul

Moseph wrote: »

I'm not sure if this has been asked or answered before but, is there a set number of vassal nodes a parent node can have? Can a level six node have all of the immediate nodes as level five vassals? Could those level five node then have their surrounding nodes as level four vassals? How deep does this go? Could one node theoretically take over the whole of the map?

To answer your question, theoretically yes... a level 6 node could have all surrounding nodes at level 5 and as its vassals. The way I understood its, there's no "limit" to the amount of vassal nodes a node can have with exception to how many nodes actually surround it. IE if you are surrounded by 5 other nodes, than your limit of vassal nodes is 5 (this is direct vassal nodes)

Moseph

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

There is indeed a level 6 node. If you want further understanding on how the system is envisioned from information given so far, check out Ashes101 by Jahlon or consult the wiki here.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes

Alpha Soul wrote: »

To answer your question, theoretically yes... a level 6 node could have all surrounding nodes at level 5 and as its vassals.

I wasn't asking either of two things, guess I should rephrase the question...

According to this https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-03-16-know-your-nodes-the-basics
"Vassal Nodes give excess experience to their Parent Node, and are able to have their own Vassals, as long as they fit within the Parent Node’s Zone of Influence."

If a lvl 6 node (Node A), takes another node as a vassal (Node B ), and then Node B takes a node as a vassal (Node C) which was still in Node A's Zone of Influence, is Node B the parent of Node C, or is Node A the parent?

Noaani

Moseph wrote: »

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

There is indeed a level 6 node. If you want further understanding on how the system is envisioned from information given so far, check out Ashes101 by Jahlon or consult the wiki here.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes

Alpha Soul wrote: »

To answer your question, theoretically yes... a level 6 node could have all surrounding nodes at level 5 and as its vassals.

I wasn't asking either of two things, guess I should rephrase the question...

According to this https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-03-16-know-your-nodes-the-basics
"Vassal Nodes give excess experience to their Parent Node, and are able to have their own Vassals, as long as they fit within the Parent Node’s Zone of Influence."

If a lvl 6 node (Node A), takes another node as a vassal (Node , and then Node B takes a node as a vassal (Node C) which was still in Node A's Zone of Influence, is Node B the parent of Node C, or is Node A the parent?

My understanding is that the answer is both.

In terms of experience, anything gained in node C goes to Node C, until Node C reaches the cap on it's level. This cap is one level less than it's parent node, or Node B.

Once Node C reaches this cap, any experience gained in Node C goes to Node B, until Node B reaches the cap on it's level. This cap is one level less than it's parent node, or Node A.

Once Node B reaches this cap, any experience gained in Node B goes to Node A. Since Node C's experience is going to Node B, but Node B is now at it's cap and all experience from Node B is going to Node A, this means all experience from Node C is ending up in Node A.

Moseph

@noanni
That wasn't what I was asking either. Where did the experience part come from? I was asking about "parent" and "vassal" nodes, XP wasn't even mentioned.

Ventharien

Once a Node hits lvl 3, village, it vassalizes nearby nodes. Not sure if that means all adjacent nodes or piece by piece. those nodes are capped to one level below their parent. If there are node lower than them in their zoi when they hit level three those nodes become vassals of the current vassal. I believe the concept is so you get a civilization center surrounded by progressively smaller settlements.

As to your question of if one metro could keep growing till it controlled all the nodes, no. It would eventually hit the limit of its expansion where no new nodes could be vassalized, or run into the borders of another group of nodes. Plus there can only be 5 metros in existence. You should check out the wiki or ashes 101 though like unknownsystemerror said though, there is alot about them.

Noaani

Moseph wrote: »

XP wasn't even mentioned.

Yes it was.

Moseph wrote: »

Vassal Nodes give excess experience to their parent node

If you take this quote from the wiki in context with my above post, you should have the answer you are after.

unknownsystemerror

@Ventharien This was actually answered in a livestream. Once a node hits level 1 it starts locking out others around it. You are correct in the vassalization part.

Jamation

I believe experience keeps being mentioned, including by yourself, because everyone is saying that a Vassal node can never out level their parent node which would make it impossible for one node to take over the entire map. A level 6 parent can have a bunch of level 5 vassals. The nodes surrounding those 5's can only have 4's. Those 4's only 3's. etc

People were explaining that the "Node C" as you put it can NEVER out level what you call "Node B"(While the parent/vassal relationship exists) regardless that "Node A" is the grandparent of "Node C"

Here is the map of the game according to the wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/World_map

Taking into account there will be 118 nodes and certain nodes will not have other nodes on all sides of them it would be impossible for one node to take over everything.

Ventharien

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

@Ventharien This was actually answered in a livestream. Once a node hits level 1 it starts locking out others around it. You are correct in the vassalization part.

Ohh in the wiki it says Village nodes up apply the lockdown. Referencing Know your Nodes: The Basics.

grisu

Moseph wrote: »

I'm not sure if this has been asked or answered before but, is there a set number of vassal nodes a parent node can have?

Yes. You can only have 5 level 6 metropolises at any given time and their reach through their "Zone of influence"(ZoI) is limited. We don't know the exact numbers for it, but as said their reach is limited so they can only take so many direct vassals.

Moseph wrote: »

Can a level six node have all of the immediate nodes as level five vassals?

Again it depends on how the sequence of leveling up happens. If you have 4 level 5 nodes in a ring right next to each other and one of them levels up, you now have what you described.
So you won't have ALL immediate nodes at level 5 since the Zone of influence would prevent at some point that surrounding nodes could level up that far, but in general you could have several of them at level 5 at least.

Here is a visualization of that concept from the wiki

Moseph wrote: »

Could those level five node then have their surrounding nodes as level four vassals?

That is how it works. Effectively if THIS node can not advance any further in levels, it is because it is a vassal node to THAT node.

Moseph wrote: »

How deep does this go?

Down to level 3 as a parent node.

Moseph wrote: »

Could one node theoretically take over the whole of the map?

No the highest level zone of influence is 6 and that doesn't reach far enough. They can only prevent nodes to advance further in a given radius(again depending on how the zones develop). We can get some wacky borders but in general the world will be divided into 5 parts, around 5 metropolises as their heart.

Moseph

@grisu
Thanks. What I was looking for was demonstrated by the bottom right lvl 5 node in the visualization. It appears that while the bottom right lvl 5 node is in the lvl 6's zone of influence, the far right lvl 4 node is not, making the lvl 5 node the parent and not lvl 6 node.
6 is the parent of 5. The parent of node 4 is node 5 and not node 6. So it does expand as I was thinking.
(. 6 5) 4) 3) 2) 1)
The spaces of my little drawing didnt post the same way it was in edit mode.

grisu

Just a fair warning, the visualization specifically talks about locking out nearby nodes from advancing to the next level, not vassal structure.
I think vassalization is a hierarchical structure unbound by range itself, but has a priority to the next higher level of a node.
So taking your example from the bottom right, the level 4 node would be a vassal to the level 6 node, but only after it did all it's mechanical importance as a vassal to the level 5 node to it's full capacity. (like sharing exp)

Otherwise I would have some trouble with how superpowers of metropolises or specialized buildings that affect vassals trickle down the whole infrastructure. Some would appear to be rather useless if it just went to the very next nodes around it and the wording makes me think that it works this way.

It's one of those things that just haven't been delved into in all it's details yet. We will have to wait on the clarification.

Noaani

Moseph wrote: »

@grisu
Thanks. What I was looking for was demonstrated by the bottom right lvl 5 node in the visualization. It appears that while the bottom right lvl 5 node is in the lvl 6's zone of influence, the far right lvl 4 node is not, making the lvl 5 node the parent and not lvl 6 node.
6 is the parent of 5. The parent of node 4 is node 5 and not node 6. So it does expand as I was thinking.
(. 6 5) 4) 3) 2) 1)
The spaces of my little drawing didnt post the same way it was in edit mode.

The thing is, all of the nodes in that graphic have the level 6 node as their ultimate parent.

There may be a "generation" in between, but they are all essentially, eventually, vassals of that level 6 node. They will all gain the benefits of being a vassal of that metropolis as well.

While the bottom right level 3 and level 4 nodes may not fall directly in the ZoI of that level 6 node, since the level 3 falls in the ZoI of the level 4, the level 4 falls in the ZoI of the level 5 and the level 5 falls in the ZoI of the level 6, they are all vassals of that level 6 node.

unknownsystemerror

Took me awhile to get the source. But remember that nodes begin to lock out other nodes from level 1 not 3. Am not talking about vassalization, but restricting growth.
@Ventharien @Moseph @grisu

Moseph

grisu wrote: »

So taking your example from the bottom right, the level 4 node would be a vassal to the level 6 node, but only after it did all it's mechanical importance as a vassal to the level 5 node to it's full capacity. (like sharing exp)

That's exactly what I'm asking about. In the visualization above, the node 4 I'm talking about is OUT of node 6's Zone of Influence, and in the "Know your Nodes" post (https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-03-16-know-your-nodes-the-basics), a vassal node needs to be in the Zone of Influence of it's parent node. Because it's OUT of Node 6's zone, but IN Node 5's zone, I'm assuming it's parent is Node 5.

The bottom Node 4 is in the Zone of Influence for both nodes 5 and 6. So that one seems like it could be the vassal of either node 5 or 6.

Caeryl

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

Took me awhile to get the source. But remember that nodes begin to lock out other nodes from level 1 not 3. Am not talking about vassalization, but restricting growth.
@/Ventharien @/Moseph @/grisu

I doubt that lvl1 lockouts are gonna make it past the first alpha since it only takes hours to hit lvl1, and they really should update their website since there’s no mention of level lockouts until a neighboring node hits 3.

grisu

That's why I included the warning. It visualizes in a simple way how a node locks others out of advancing. It does not refer to vassal structure. It was not made with vassal structure in mind.

Now that it came to this I went out to find the exact wording again to put this to rest and stop any further confusion. Here you go.

As Nodes advance in stages of growth they will lock out neighboring Nodes from progressing, and will absorb their zones of influence.

- https://ashesofcreation.com/news/node-series-part-one

I hope this is now put to rest.

Caeryl

grisu wrote: »

That's why I included the warning. It visualizes in a simple way how a node locks others out of advancing. It does not refer to vassal structure. It was not made with vassal structure in mind.

Now that it came to this I went out to find the exact wording again to put this to rest and stop any further confusion. Here you go.

As Nodes advance in stages of growth they will lock out neighboring Nodes from progressing, and will absorb their zones of influence.

- https://ashesofcreation.com/news/node-series-part-one

I hope this is now put to rest.

That quote certainly seems to refer to vassalage, where a parent node absorbs exp gained from the vassal node. That’s also an article posted 2 years before Know Your Nodes: The Basics article, which says only this about level lockouts:

Beginning at Node Stage 3, when a Node advances, it enslaves nearby Nodes and makes them into its Vassals. Vassal Nodes are owned by a Parent Node and <Vassal Nodes> must always be at least one Node Stage below the Parent Node. This means that the Vassal Node cannot grow until the Parent Node advances in stage.

Vassal Nodes give excess experience to their Parent Node, and are able to have their own Vassals, as long as they fit within the Parent Node’s Zone of Influence.

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