What worries you the most about the project?

Even if we are a small minority of the future playerbase, maybe we can give some insight on what worries us. In this way, atleast we made our voices heard so the devs can consider our concerns. I'll start:

1. Im afraid the game will feel shallow and the progression too linear because the IS are stressed to finish the progress and won't have time to make it gameplay deep. interesting and engaging.

2. Im afraid the classes will be to similar in an impossible persuit of balance. I don't want every class/spec to have a stun, an AOE heal, a cleance ability. I want unique toolkits and diverse classes. Even if the cost is slight imbalance.

3. Im afraid PvP and PVE gear will be RNG based. I love working hard in PVP to earn/craft/purchase my gear pieces one by one. Working hard for a month to finaly earn/craft/purchase that staff feels amazing. Randomly getting it after 1 day or 1 year from pure casino RNG feels like utter dogshit.

4. Im afraid crafted gear will be obsolete and useless in comparison to gear you get from bosses. Crafted gear should have the potential to be just as good as any other top tier gear.

5. Im very afraid a stale meta will form, full of cookie cutter builds that are superior to other builds. For example a two-handed fighter/rogue being statisticly and numericly superior in almost everyway over a fighter/mage.

What are you worried about?

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Onald

I'm worried about how loot is divided among the players. From yesterdays video it seems to be the first who loots. Luckily it should be easy to test different implementations of looting.

Wandering Mist

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The main concern I have is actually with the 8-man groups.

This is actually quite fair.

8 man groups will either be the best thing about Ashes, or the worst.

Thing is, this is mostly up to us players to make work, imo.

It's not just about the players. Balancing dungeons around 8 man groups is a lot harder to do than 4-5 man groups. Will dungeons be designed for 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 dps? Or 2 tanks, 2 healers 4 dps? Either setup has problems associated with it.

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The main concern I have is actually with the 8-man groups.

This is actually quite fair.

8 man groups will either be the best thing about Ashes, or the worst.

Thing is, this is mostly up to us players to make work, imo.

It's not just about the players. Balancing dungeons around 8 man groups is a lot harder to do than 4-5 man groups. Will dungeons be designed for 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 dps? Or 2 tanks, 2 healers 4 dps? Either setup has problems associated with it.

In terms of balance in relation to classes, I see the additional 2/3 players as giving the developers a little more flexibility.

A raid of 20 could have 1 tank or two tanks, it could have anywhere from 3 to 6 healers, and anywhere from no support to 4 support - and the rest made up of DPS. All of these possible mixes of groups have the same likelihood of over all success on almost any piece of raid content - and this chance only goes up if the developers don't develop content with an enrage type mechanic (which most games don't do).

I don't see why the same won't be true with 8 man group content.

The optimal would almost definitely be a tank, a healer, a support and 5 DPS - but I would expect to be able to do all group content without the support, or with an additional tank or healer.

To me, the additional characters should add more possibilities of what a viable group could look like, rather than more restrictions.

Where I can see it failing is if people don't realize this. If people start to assume there is a specific group build that you need to take along with you, then I can see the group size in Ashes being a real issue.

Wandering Mist

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The main concern I have is actually with the 8-man groups.

This is actually quite fair.

8 man groups will either be the best thing about Ashes, or the worst.

Thing is, this is mostly up to us players to make work, imo.

It's not just about the players. Balancing dungeons around 8 man groups is a lot harder to do than 4-5 man groups. Will dungeons be designed for 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 dps? Or 2 tanks, 2 healers 4 dps? Either setup has problems associated with it.

In terms of balance in relation to classes, I see the additional 2/3 players as giving the developers a little more flexibility.

A raid of 20 could have 1 tank or two tanks, it could have anywhere from 3 to 6 healers, and anywhere from no support to 4 support - and the rest made up of DPS. All of these possible mixes of groups have the same likelihood of over all success on almost any piece of raid content - and this chance only goes up if the developers don't develop content with an enrage type mechanic (which most games don't do).

I don't see why the same won't be true with 8 man group content.

The optimal would almost definitely be a tank, a healer, a support and 5 DPS - but I would expect to be able to do all group content without the support, or with an additional tank or healer.

To me, the additional characters should add more possibilities of what a viable group could look like, rather than more restrictions.

Where I can see it failing is if people don't realize this. If people start to assume there is a specific group build that you need to take along with you, then I can see the group size in Ashes being a real issue.

I disagree. When a developer designs a boss fight they will always have an idea of group composition, and the larger the group size the harder it is to properly tune the fight. But let's take a step back from the boss fights and just look at the trash in a basic dungeon. If you go in with 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 dps, that is a huge mis-match in terms of damage output. Mobs will die insanely quickly which will be a very unsatisfying experience for everyone involved. A way to combat this would be to increase the number of mobs, but then you have to make threat a complete non-issue otherwise the tank will get overwhelmed. On top of that increasing the number of mobs will increase the damage the tank is taking, so you will either need to decrease the incoming damage or increase the tank's survivability, or increase the healing output available.

Alternatively, you can design dungeons around 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 dps, which to me is a lot easier to balance. But then you have the issue of trying to find 2 tanks and 2 healers just for a single dungeon.

Unless Intrepid put some kind of scaling in place so that you can clear dungeons with less than 8 people, I can see a real possibility in the dungeons being ignored by a lot of players because they can't put a group together for them.

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I disagree. When a developer designs a boss fight they will always have an idea of group composition, and the larger the group size the harder it is to properly tune the fight.

Not in my experience.

When designing a raid encounter, designers have a general notion of how many tanks and healers a raid may need, but they don't design encounters to require that specific of a raid build. If you take along an extra tank and healer, the encounter will still be able to be killed. It may take you a few minutes longer, but you'll get there. Most of the raid builds that people talk about are for the optimal situation, rather than being the required build.

This doesn't hold true for 5 man groups though.

With 5 man groups, you have no choice as to what your groups build is.

If you drop a DPS for an additional healer, you just lost 33% of your DPS. You can't do that and expect success.

When you go up to even 6 man groups though, dropping the 4th DPS for a second healer means you are only losing 25% of your DPS. That is annoying but manageable.

Go up to 8 man groups, and dropping that DPS for a healer means you are only losing 16.6% of your DPS. That's perfectly fine. Drop a DPS for each of a tank and a healer though? now you're back to dropping 33% of your DPS and it isn't overly sustainable.

This is why there is more flexibility in groups of 8 than there is in games with groups of 5.

Wandering Mist wrote: »

If you go in with 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 dps, that is a huge mis-match in terms of damage output. Mobs will die insanely quickly which will be a very unsatisfying experience for everyone involved. A way to combat this would be to increase the number of mobs, but then you have to make threat a complete non-issue otherwise the tank will get overwhelmed. On top of that increasing the number of mobs will increase the damage the tank is taking, so you will either need to decrease the incoming damage or increase the tank's survivability, or increase the healing output available.

I'm not entirely sure I follow your logic here.

If you are designing a game around the idea of groups of 8 characters, you would simply give the mobs enough hit points to suit a group of 8 characters. Then you don't need to add any more mobs to the situation than you - as a developer - would want to add.

If you design the game around the idea of groups of 5 or 6, and then throw groups of 8 at them, then sure, the mobs will die very quickly. But why would you design mobs like that?

I can see people wanting to take a tank, two healers and 5 DPS. I can see that being a thing. Since you would only be losing 16.6% of your DPS, I can see that being viable, as well.

The only time I can see groups accepting two tanks - or a tank accepting a single group situation with a second tank in it - is if heavy PvP is expected. In that situation, what the PvE content is requiring is probably not the main concern.

The other thing about Ashes to note in this situation are the impact of support classes. If they are designed well, they may be able to allow that second healer to claw back some of the DPS lost by taking them instead of a 5th DPS (1 tank, 2 healers, 1 support and 4 DPS in this group). We don't know how they will implement support classes, but it is worth noting.

Atama

I’m worried mostly about two things.

1) Delays. MMOs take a long time, and the original estimates seemed overly optimistic, and it was no surprise that it’s taking longer than planned to finish. So I’m not upset or freaking out. But I do worry that if the game gets delayed too much, they might either run out of cash or take so long that another game will “steal their thunder” and cause this game to fail.

2) I’m not sure how fun the game actually is. I invested quite a bit of cash into this and I’ve still not been able to play more than a horrible Battle Royale game. Will combat be engaging? Will there be enough variety of play? Will I enjoy the story and quests? Will there be incentive to work with other players and form real cooperative bonds? Will the game really look as nice as the concept art? I have no way of knowing any of that yet. I am not someone who loves PvP and I don’t know if it will ruin it for me or be great (I loved the OW PvP in SWG so I hope it’s at least that good).

So my fears are basically around whether I wasted money or not. Will the game actually be successful, and will it be fun enough that I get my money’s worth out of it. I’m still optimistic but those worries are there.

Plateau

Armando

I feel bad for everyone that invested a lot of money into these projects when they may not even see their ROI lol.

I'm worried the game won't come out and quite frankly I had forgotten about it until I saw Asmongold talking about it in a new WoW livestream highlight video of his, so I came back to see if I still had my account.

Azryil

armando wrote: »

I'm worried the game won't come out and quite frankly I had forgotten about it until I saw Asmongold talking about it in a new WoW livestream highlight video of his, so I came back to see if I still had my account.

I really hope that guy doesn't decide to play and bring his rabid cult of 12 year olds with him....

Nagash

Azryil wrote: »

armando wrote: »

I'm worried the game won't come out and quite frankly I had forgotten about it until I saw Asmongold talking about it in a new WoW livestream highlight video of his, so I came back to see if I still had my account.

I really hope that guy doesn't decide to play and bring his rabid cult of 12 year olds with him....

agreed, the last thing we need is the new age horde

Tacualeon

The placeholder for the fireball is a silly double spin without intent, body rotation or engagement of the shoulder.
Afraid of thoughtless fancy animations and spells.

insomnia

1. To "hardcore". I'm a casual gamer. That the game will just be frustrating due to it.
2. All the cool (coolest) cosmetics are in the cashshop (i'm quite certain they will be).

Amist

insomnia wrote: »

1. To "hardcore". I'm a casual gamer. That the game will just be frustrating due to it.
2. All the cool (coolest) cosmetics are in the cashshop (i'm quite certain they will be).

To answer your second worry, the devs have stated that there will be different color variants of the store cosmetics that are obtainable in-game

tugowar

Zerg guilds being inevitable

George_Black

tugowar wrote: »

Zerg guilds being inevitable

Interesting

johnnysd

I am worried that like most MMOs PVP will be catered to and ruin the game as it has many other MMOs. There needs to be full time PVP, opt-in PVP and PVE only servers. The very vast amount of players will be almost entirely interested in PVE content

Guild influence on each node needs to be limited.

insomnia

johnnysd wrote: »

I am worried that like most MMOs PVP will be catered to and ruin the game as it has many other MMOs. There needs to be full time PVP, opt-in PVP and PVE only servers. The very vast amount of players will be almost entirely interested in PVE content

Guild influence on each node needs to be limited.

I'm a Pve player, but i'm not so certain about the pvp statement. There is a reason where there are pvp servers for some mmo's. It just sucks for those of us that don't care for open world pvp. Hopefully the corruption system will do something towards this. Plus i highly doubt they will make both types of servers, due to the corruption system. Plus Steven has said several times 'risk vs reward'.

I also fear the open world dungeons. I think it will be a shitfest. People running in dungeons, killing people why they are fighting a boss, just to be a-holes. You just know some will do it. Those losers that can only get their kick, when they ruin it for others

Ventharien

insomnia wrote: »

I'm a Pve player, but i'm not so certain about the pvp statement. There is a reason where there are pvp servers for some mmo's. It just sucks for those of us that don't care for open world pvp. Hopefully the corruption system will do something towards this. Plus i highly doubt they will make both types of servers, due to the corruption system. Plus Steven has said several times 'risk vs reward'.

I also fear the open world dungeons. I think it will be a shitfest. People running in dungeons, killing people why they are fighting a boss, just to be a-holes. You just know some will do it. Those losers that can only get their kick, when they ruin it for others

Valid points. But think also of the possible community engagement this opens up. Guard groups/guilds, Nodes ( as in the people of a node) being involved in people doing dungeons. Having non instanced dungeons isn't a new concept after all. It's actually a pretty old one.

Staic

Non Instanced Dungeons, you mean like how L2's entire world except 4 sepulchers and festival of darkness was open world - open pvp. And that game was bloody fantastic until various reasons killed it (bots for one).

Get your group set, run down to DVC, wipe the group that is already there and take their spot. Get your grind on and wait for them to come back.

People are cuddled in too much tissue paper these days. Grow some balls and fight for what you are doing.

tugowar

Staic wrote: »

Non Instanced Dungeons, you mean like how L2's entire world except 4 sepulchers and festival of darkness was open world - open pvp. And that game was bloody fantastic until various reasons killed it (bots for one).

Get your group set, run down to DVC, wipe the group that is already there and take their spot. Get your grind on and wait for them to come back.

People are cuddled in too much tissue paper these days. Grow some balls and fight for what you are doing.

I believe you misread the subject.

Also I agree.

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