The worst possible feature in this game is the corruption

I can tell now, the corruption feature is completely broken. Let say, and it is a common case, some player kills another who grief and ks the mobs. Now let see how that PK penalty will work. The player who is flagged have the choice to die, or to die multiple times. So in fact the player who griefs wins. I saw exactly the same feature in many games - L2 after GoD, L2 Classic, BDO and etc. In every game the result was death of OW PvP. Many players left cause they feel frustrated they cannot protect from griefers. And above all some players do intentional griefing. I call that feature the gank of the loser. And if this thing exists here, I will simply not play AOC, as I already played BDO - good looking, but terrible game.

If you want to reduce the ganking, this is not the way to do it. There are multiple different mechanisms, that will not be exploited so much.

One simple exploit - I want a boss, or mobs, or anything in the game for OW PvE. What I have to do is to let another player, or players to gank me, so to insult them, or to ks, or to grief. Then I will take what I want, as when they PK me, they lost the case.

One possible way to reduce the ganking is a similar karma system - so the PKer is flagged for 5-10 min, but he accumulates PKs. And he needs to clean them by doing things that brings him exp and ingame money, for free. So 1 - 3 PKs random - 1-3 hour grind. 4-6 PKs - random 2-6 hours grind. Also loss of fighting abilities/items if the character has/dies with 6PKs and more.

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unknown

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ziltch

I see you ignored all of my other points, shall I take it as that you have no good counter arguments for them?

EveryHoleIsAGoal

Lmao this post is cringe and blue pilled

unknownsystemerror

You cannot kill your corrupted friend "multiple times". Respawn for those that die while corrupted is random. You won't be able to spawn camp your friend. You might be able to kill them once. But that is it. By the time they figure out where they are, run back to you, they will have been killed multiple times, respawning randomly each time. They show up on the mini map with a big flashing indicator that says "KILL ME!" and those with bounty hunter will have even more abilities to track them. You have spent hours and pages of REEEE talking out your nethers and still lack a basic understanding of the system. But hey, you are at least popcorn worthy. Like watching that droolcup slowly fill from height.

ziltch

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

You cannot kill your corrupted friend "multiple times". Respawn for those that die while corrupted is random. You won't be able to spawn camp your friend. You might be able to kill them once. But that is it. By the time they figure out where they are, run back to you, they will have been killed multiple times, respawning randomly each time. They show up on the mini map with a big flashing indicator that says "KILL ME!" and those with bounty hunter will have even more abilities to track them. You have spent hours and pages of REEEE talking out your nethers and still lack a basic understanding of the system. But hey, you are at least popcorn worthy. Like watching that droolcup slowly fill from height.

You forgot to mention how dying to friend will still apply the Corruption Death Penalties, which you will still have to work to get rid off. Like gaining enough XP to pay back the huge XP debt you got.
Only thing you will really be able to "save" even if you manage to do it that way is the items that drop.

Amist

The thing is: You don't know if it will be "the same shit". The corruption system is currently not very fleshed out in testing and will likely see many different iterations before becoming its final produt. Claiming that a system like this will make the game dead on arrival is just wrong and you claim these assumptions to be facts, despite clearly interacting with people that quite like the system. AoC is not going to be for everyone and whilst you may dislike the idea that you've placed in your head, where the corruption is the worst thing to ever happen to AoC, many people might like it or the system may not be as you've expected it to at all.

You are approaching the situation from your own point of view and with your own experiences and likewise other people have had their own. There are many different ways in which you can approach the corruption system and see it as either something amazing or as something 'shit'.

Now, your demeaning comments and you calling people noobs is only going to stop you from further getting your point across and having people understand your pov. I'd suggest you keep the childlike tantrums away from the forums and contribute with something a little more mature.

unknown

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ziltch

Ikcen wrote: »

Not a friend. Random player. He made two PKs close to my spot, and then came and asked me to kill him. This is from L2 Classic US.

And the only thing that will be "saved" is the items
Death Penalties will be the same and they are the real punishment.
The item drop is just the incentive to hunt Corrupted people.

Also, waiting for you to argue against the points I made still oÔ
If you cannot argue them, simply admit that so I know not to bother observing this thread.

Noaani

Ikcen wrote: »

Indeed. The same shit like that in L2. When another player asks you to kill him multiple times, you will feel that system It is terrible, abusable and prevents the OW PvP.

Ikcen wrote: »

Not a friend. Random player. He made two PKs close to my spot, and then came and asked me to kill him. This is from L2 Classic US.

So, a player kills two other players (or one other player twice) and then asks you to kill him toget rid of corruption.

I'm not sure how you could say that prevents open world PvP. I mean, it was open world PvP that started that whole thing off - the guy killed two players (or one player twice).

If you do that in Ashes - walk up to a random player and ask them to kill you to get rid of corruption - you still take all the penalties of that corruption, and that player may well end up with one of your items.

unknown

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ziltch

Ikcen wrote: »

No, you miss the point completely. I think it had to have 4 PKs to drop gear in L2. I'm not sure. Anyway, the reason was that every player he would kill with a red flag would be another PK. Also to clean the red flag would take hours. So to kill him, no matter of the loss of experience was the best option. He killed some KS trolls. But their goal was to push him for enough PKs to take his gear.

And as I said in my previous argument, this is not better?
Corruption system makes you have that chance on 1st PK
So that should be better a "reduction of ganking" than if on 4th PK.
Corruption 1 - Karma 0

Ikcen wrote: »

As for the points - you misunderstood me. What I mean is , that if they want to allow OW PvP, they have to treat differently the ganking, and the PK for farming spot. So for the first maybe 3 PKs the red flag should be reduced to 3-10 min. For more it could become permanent till the corruption is not cleaned.

They don't?
OW PvP is on everywhere. This is already decided.
If you don't like it, don't play.

And there exists no "farming spots" in this game.
Resources, upon being gathered, will not respawn in the same location, but in a different location all together.
And reducing the time to 3-10 min?
How is this better at "reducing ganking" than Corruption system which you cannot get rid of before you
A: Die
B: Complete a long, hard quest to get rid of it?
Corruption 2 - Karma 0

Ikcen wrote: »

That does not remove any other penalty. Also if the flagged red player kills someone in PvP that should not be counted as PK.

This too is a "worse" way to "reduce ganking" than the corruption system.
If you gank someone while red, you become even more red (more corruption)
If you kill someone red however, you will not gain corruption at all (if that is what you meant)

Ikcen wrote: »

So if someone KS, try to abuse the system - for example a bounty hunter with alt, or trolls you badly, you should not be afraid to start PvP.

You are again, ignoring the Death Penalty, maybe you do not know how it works so let me try to explain it simply.

You die = You gain Death Penalties
1 such Penalty is "XP Debt"
While you have XP Debt, your stats are lowered (strength, agility, stamina etc)
Since your stats are lowered, this lowers your Combat Efficiency until you have paid back the XP Debt completely.

Dying as "Corrupt|Red" gives you 3-4 times the Death Penalties, aka 3-4x XP Debt. This cannot be avoided even if a friend kills you. This will ALWAYS happen no matter what.
And you do not have to be afraid to start PvP?

Dying as Green actually gives you higher Death Penalties than if you fought back (Purple).

TLDR;
None of your points are good or proving anything.
If anything, it sounds like you want the system gone so you can gank others freely.

unknown

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Noaani

Ikcen wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Ikcen wrote: »

Indeed. The same shit like that in L2. When another player asks you to kill him multiple times, you will feel that system It is terrible, abusable and prevents the OW PvP.

Ikcen wrote: »

Not a friend. Random player. He made two PKs close to my spot, and then came and asked me to kill him. This is from L2 Classic US.

So, a player kills two other players (or one other player twice) and then asks you to kill him toget rid of corruption.

I'm not sure how you could say that prevents open world PvP. I mean, it was open world PvP that started that whole thing off - the guy killed two players (or one player twice).

If you do that in Ashes - walk up to a random player and ask them to kill you to get rid of corruption - you still take all the penalties of that corruption, and that player may well end up with one of your items.

No. They KS mobs and trolled him. And then they intentionally let him kill them. As the gear was pretty expensive, even if they caught one player per day would worth it. In this current case they even did not want the spot. Just abused the PK system.

Well this makes no sense.

Why would those two players goad that third player in to attack them if the only penalty that player would face is so light that a random passer by can negate it?

I mean, from their perspective, they aggravate a player, get killed by that player, and then that player has no real penalty to speak of. What was the point to all of that?

And lets not forget - that third player, the one that attacked, he chose to attack. He didn't have to. He could have walked away if he wanted to, but he assessed the risk vs reward of the situation and decided to attack.

Other than having a system where you can ask a passer by to help you get red of that penalty, I don't see the issue here.

Nagash

grisu wrote: »

It's that time of the year again isn't it?

Yeah.....

ziltch

Ikcen wrote: »

I doubt for that. Also I was talking about another game with pretty similar system.

You can doubt it all you want.
This has already been stated by the CEO and lead game designer several times.
Corruption will give you a chance to drop some of your gear/items on death, no matter how little of it you have.
(And maybe the higher your corruption, the higher the chances of that happening)

So if you still want to doubt it after that, it is not "doubt", its "denying the truth".
Now if you said you doubt they will keep it that way, that would be a valid point of view, but would still be a view without any base.

Ikcen wrote: »

Also ganking and PK are two very different things. Ganking is a role playing, PK is a result of attack when your opponent does not retaliate, it may be caused by different reasons.

gank
(in a video game) use underhand means to defeat or kill (a less experienced opponent).

PK
PK means Player Kill in an online gaming context.
The term "Player Kill" refers to killing a character controlled by another player

So no, according to the english language, you have your definitions wrong.
What you refer to as PK is "ganking".

Ikcen wrote: »

I think the exp debt means your experience fell under your current level. So it is to avoid deleveling. Something that was possible in L2 for example.

Yes, XP debt is to avoid deleveling while still retaining the same punishments as if you would be lower level again.

Ikcen wrote: »

Also I mean that if you are with red flag, any player you kill in PvP is counted as PK - it does not matter if he starts, if he fights, it is counted as PK.

And ofcourse any kill counts as PK in PvP, that's in the definition.
But no, any player you kill as "Red" does not count as "ganking".
That is not how the flaggin system works.

TLDR;
Again, no valid points. Try again.

unknown

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cyanideinsanity

I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion nobody will fight back. Going off this forum and the fact that ow pvp os a core part of the game, surely that would attract people who are interested in pvp ie players who will fight back. Not to mention death for all sides is a hinderence; no one player be it green, red, or purple doesn't lose something. Sure I may get them corrupted but now i face 100% of the penalty and have to make my way back. If I'm going to lose flagging up might be the better alternative.

Also what is your opinion on how ow pvp should flow?

Ikcen wrote: »

Uh that is hard. OK. But fair, maybe some you feel the same way when they read what I wrote

When you are flagged red - so you have corruption, every kill of a player, no matter if he fights back, makes you get more corruption. So you do PK - then another player sees you are corrupted, and attacks you, both fight, you win, but your corruption score increases like if you have done another PK. Do you get what I mean now?

You only gain/increase corruption on killing greens. Purples and reds don't.

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