The worst possible feature in this game is the corruption

I can tell now, the corruption feature is completely broken. Let say, and it is a common case, some player kills another who grief and ks the mobs. Now let see how that PK penalty will work. The player who is flagged have the choice to die, or to die multiple times. So in fact the player who griefs wins. I saw exactly the same feature in many games - L2 after GoD, L2 Classic, BDO and etc. In every game the result was death of OW PvP. Many players left cause they feel frustrated they cannot protect from griefers. And above all some players do intentional griefing. I call that feature the gank of the loser. And if this thing exists here, I will simply not play AOC, as I already played BDO - good looking, but terrible game.

If you want to reduce the ganking, this is not the way to do it. There are multiple different mechanisms, that will not be exploited so much.

One simple exploit - I want a boss, or mobs, or anything in the game for OW PvE. What I have to do is to let another player, or players to gank me, so to insult them, or to ks, or to grief. Then I will take what I want, as when they PK me, they lost the case.

One possible way to reduce the ganking is a similar karma system - so the PKer is flagged for 5-10 min, but he accumulates PKs. And he needs to clean them by doing things that brings him exp and ingame money, for free. So 1 - 3 PKs random - 1-3 hour grind. 4-6 PKs - random 2-6 hours grind. Also loss of fighting abilities/items if the character has/dies with 6PKs and more.

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ziltch

Is what happens when one try to convince someone who will not face reality or accept facts and rather live in his own world where he can believe himself to be correct and smarter than everyone else.

Thinking that he thought of something the lead game designers didn't xD
He didnt even understand I meant game designers but thought I meant graphic designers when I just used the word "designer" so didnt expect much after that

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Atama

Ikcen wrote: »

ziltch wrote: »

Is what happens when one try to convince someone who will not face reality or accept facts and rather live in his own world where he can believe himself to be correct and smarter than everyone else.

Thinking that he thought of something the lead game designers didn't xD
He didnt even understand I meant game designers but thought I meant graphic designers when I just used the word "designer" so didnt expect much after that

Rude, but fair enough. Now answer to that:

I use alt to scam you to PK me, and then I come with my main and PK you, to get your gear. I will not get corruption as you will be red.

Anyone dumb enough to fall for something that ridiculous deserves the consequences. It reminds me of the low-level trolls in Booty Bay in WoW that would run around with a PvP flag on and troll people on the other faction with emotes (since they can’t talk). Anyone dumb enough to attack them gets slaughtered by the guards. It’s so easy to ignore a person who is a nuisance.

Also, that’s a heck of a lot of work to make one person red. What do you get out of it? It’s easier to just go purple and fight other purples or reds if you want to PvP for profit. This is starting to sound like paranoia. I doubt anyone would bother to go to such lengths... Because why?!

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shintaro

Please explain how kill stealing would work in Ashes of Creation if the player with the first hit gets the loot.

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shintaro

So we agree that KS is not really possible with that rule, if AoC implements it?

Taking all mobs with an AoE class is of course not viable as I hope we are talking about mobs that cannot be killed in a couple of seconds. Those would be pretty uninteresting to farm since the market would be flooded with their drops, right?

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shintaro

The AoE only wins if you can kill all those mobs that you pulled. And I assume that the drops of mobs where one player can kill 15 simultanously aren't worth much in AoC, because the market will be flooded with those items. There won't be competition for those items.

For bosses or rare drops that are worth more, you can choose to kill the other player, take the corruption, but then be rewarded with those rare drops, should you manage to get them. Then you try to reach your home and save those rarities. In this case, the corruption system really helps with risk vs. reward.

Atama

Ikcen wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Ikcen wrote: »

ziltch wrote: »

Is what happens when one try to convince someone who will not face reality or accept facts and rather live in his own world where he can believe himself to be correct and smarter than everyone else.

Thinking that he thought of something the lead game designers didn't xD
He didnt even understand I meant game designers but thought I meant graphic designers when I just used the word "designer" so didnt expect much after that

Rude, but fair enough. Now answer to that:

I use alt to scam you to PK me, and then I come with my main and PK you, to get your gear. I will not get corruption as you will be red.

Anyone dumb enough to fall for something that ridiculous deserves the consequences. It reminds me of the low-level trolls in Booty Bay in WoW that would run around with a PvP flag on and troll people on the other faction with emotes (since they can’t talk). Anyone dumb enough to attack them gets slaughtered by the guards. It’s so easy to ignore a person who is a nuisance.

Again we reach the point of superiority. We all are the best players OK let assume there are noobs, casual players, simply bad players, and dump players, a lot of players if you think. And you claim they deserve it?

Being a “noob” or “casual” is no excuse for behaving like a petulant child. The behavior you describe is exactly that. Yes, not acting like an idiot is superior to acting like an idiot. That should be self-evident. You don’t have to be the “best player” to realize that getting corruption in response to someone saying “yo momma is fat” is dumb, when you can just /ignore them.

Also you will never know if the guy who ks your mobs is alt or competition.

There is no KS. You can’t “own” mobs so nobody can deprive you of them. And what do you mean “alt or competition”? Are they mutually exclusive?

unphazd

Atama wrote: »

Ikcen wrote: »

ziltch wrote: »

Is what happens when one try to convince someone who will not face reality or accept facts and rather live in his own world where he can believe himself to be correct and smarter than everyone else.

Thinking that he thought of something the lead game designers didn't xD
He didnt even understand I meant game designers but thought I meant graphic designers when I just used the word "designer" so didnt expect much after that

Rude, but fair enough. Now answer to that:

I use alt to scam you to PK me, and then I come with my main and PK you, to get your gear. I will not get corruption as you will be red.

Anyone dumb enough to fall for something that ridiculous deserves the consequences. It reminds me of the low-level trolls in Booty Bay in WoW that would run around with a PvP flag on and troll people on the other faction with emotes (since they can’t talk). Anyone dumb enough to attack them gets slaughtered by the guards. It’s so easy to ignore a person who is a nuisance.

Also, that’s a heck of a lot of work to make one person red. What do you get out of it? It’s easier to just go purple and fight other purples or reds if you want to PvP for profit. This is starting to sound like paranoia. I doubt anyone would bother to go to such lengths... Because why?!

I do agree you would have to be dumb, but the scenario is quite hilarious. Player A finally breaks and gets super annoyed at Player B, he attacks him, while knowing his limits not to kill him, he leaves him low health.
Player A continues to farm but unbeknown to him, Player B stealths/blinks in front of his aoe and dies. Teammates of B then emerge out of a nearby bush and proceed to man handle Player A and take his goods as a corrupted citizen.

I can imagine quite a few people that would go to this length and orchestrate something to get someones prized possessions, especially if it works, that's all it needs to do, is work. As it stands now we don't have much information on how anything works so like most of this thread this is only mental gymnastics.

unphazd

What the above could do is blur the line between combatant and corrupted for high burst aoe. If the above is executed well, you are effectively corrupted as soon as you flag and engage.

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unphazd

They could also have a knockdown state followed by an execute input. To protect those who combated with others but had no intention of killing them as the victim then died to mobs during combat or shortly afterwards. This will also properly define those who had intentions of using mobs to kill a non combatant player forcing them to execute the player to fulfill their deed. But then again without this inclusion I'm sure Intrepid would class manslaughter as a corruptible offence therefore negating the need for this state.

Gimlog

Ikcen I love how you're trying to prof that the system is broken when all info we have are as we had the front and back page of a book , and you say it's a bad one x)

We have none of the numbers for the corruption system.

how much gear we drop once corrupted ?
what will be the difference between killing -1 lvl player or a -5lvl one ?

Nothing about mob density in areas or they respawn time , nothing about agro or how long do we keep it.
We have no idea of how the chat will be structured.
All of those setting can be set in ways your worry won't exist.

But still you stand up and assume that those guys that have as much game experience as you, who are willing the create the game they never found , will make it the troll kingdom...

I'm counting on Alpha and Beta tester to point out the weakness of the system if there is some , and if you are interest in this game but worry of what you point out, make your self a tester and prof in game that those accusation will be real ...

unphazd

Gimlog wrote: »

Ikcen I love how you're trying to prof that the system is broken when all info we have are as we had the front and back page of a book , and you say it's a bad one x)

We have none of the numbers for the corruption system.
how much gear we drop once corrupted ?

what will be the difference between killing -1 lvl player or a -5lvl one ?

Nothing about mob density in areas or they respawn time , nothing about agro or how long do we keep it.
We have no idea of how the chat will be structured.
All of those setting can be set in ways your worry won't exist.

But still you stand up and assume that those guys that have as much game experience as you, who are willing the create the game they never found , will make it the troll kingdom...

I'm counting on Alpha and Beta tester to point out the weakness of the system if there is some , and if you are interest in this game but worry of what you point out, make your self a tester and prof in game that those accusation will be real ...

Agreed I would avoid getting heated Ikcen. Getting annoyed over something that hasn't been clearly defined, iterated on and finally implemented will get you no where. Watch the boat float and help steer it gently when you can

I definitely understand some of your points though.

shintaro

Ikcen wrote: »

You are missing the point - we send lower level alts, with a healer, some fast runners, to tease the boss. Your party shall PK them to get it. Then my party with higher level main characters come and take your gear and the boss both.

So that is only about the boss fights, but for normal mobs, we are on the same line?

For boss fights, it may very well be that they are instanced in a sense that no other group can enter and disturb your fight. In the latest gameplay footage, there is a portal where you must go through which could limit access. Everything might be different for bosses. We know for example, that for some drops, a well trained gatherer is necessary. In this case, not the player that first hits the boss gets the loot, but the one that manages to gather it first. It might be possible there that one group kills the boss, and then another group comes in, kills them and gathers those rare ressources. But, if this is possible, it is by design. They are able to restrict access to boss fights.

EDIT: If the game is designed to have multiple parties access the same boss at the same time, it might also very well be that this is a designated combat zone where everybody is a combatant. This would make sense for such a place if they want that.

Atama

Ikcen wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Also you will never know if the guy who ks your mobs is alt or competition.

There is no KS. You can’t “own” mobs so nobody can deprive you of them. And what do you mean “alt or competition”? Are they mutually exclusive?

Alt is alternative character. And if you take the mobs on a certain spot, you know this is KS, as probably the guy is there because he can effectively farm, and that will not be possible anymore after you come.

I know what an “alt” is; it’s either a character different from your main character, or just different from the character you are logged on with (depending on context).

How is that different from “competitor”? How are they even related? And what is the competition you’re talking about?

I’m also not sure what kind of game you think this is. You seem focused on the idea that everyone is going to log in, find some little square of land, and repeatedly attack a group of enemies. Which as I said before would be a crappy game, it reminds me of MMOs 20 years ago when the industry was in its infancy. MMORPGs aren’t played that way anymore.

I assure you, that isn’t how people are going to play this game. If that is your strategy I’m not sure it will work very well. It definitely sounds tedious. And it may not be feasible since you don’t have the freedom to indiscriminately kill anyone that comes near the area you claim to “own”, nor should you be able to. Because that is jerkish behavior. And those enemies may not respawn in the same place the same way, so you might kill 15 wolves then wonder why they aren’t coming back.

Basically your objections are nonsense. I have no idea where you got these bizarre ideas of how this game (or most modern MMOs) are played.

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