Why Anime related content wont fit into AOC.

Within the last 5 years, there has been an increased influence of eastern themed trends within western society, especially when it comes to gaming and online entertainment. Anime related content can be found all over western games and eastern publishers push their games more and more into the west on console, mobile, and pc.

So why does anime related content not fit within Ashes, as far as I can recall (and correct me if I am wrong) Intrepid wants to bring back the old school feels of an MMORPG and one big subject of that goal will be immersion. In western fantasy games, the amount of ****, fox girl, or stripper armor is zero and you have more focus on Lore as well as relatable characters.

As we can see on our discord we already have members oversexualizing Ashes related characters like Tulnar and so on, In my opinion, Ashes wants to draw a straight Line in the sand and say we are not Like that. Having things like listed above allows the game to become something that is more like an outlet for fetishes than a MMORPG. We do know **** are not in Ashes, in your opinion should Ashes allow more Anime and eastern trends or should they just straight up, stay away from all that.

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grisu

BCG l LordofSalt wrote: »

In western fantasy games, the amount of ****, fox girl, or stripper armor is zero and you have more focus on Lore as well as relatable characters.

I'll give you the fox girls tho.

It's not about influence, it's about presentation. Eastern influence has nothing to do with the motto sex sells. If people respond to cute animal ears, then it will be exploited by companies for a cheap thrill.

GrinningJack

grisu wrote: »

BCG l LordofSalt wrote: »

In western fantasy games, the amount of ****, fox girl, or stripper armor is zero and you have more focus on Lore as well as relatable characters.

I'll give you the fox girls tho.

It's not about influence, it's about presentation. Eastern influence has nothing to do with the motto sex sells. If people respond to cute animal ears, then it will be exploited by companies for a cheap thrill.

So you are saying eastern games do not over-sexualized their games to appeal to a certain focus group, compared to western games?

Nagash

BCG l LordofSalt wrote: »

grisu wrote: »

BCG l LordofSalt wrote: »

In western fantasy games, the amount of ****, fox girl, or stripper armor is zero and you have more focus on Lore as well as relatable characters.

I'll give you the fox girls tho.

It's not about influence, it's about presentation. Eastern influence has nothing to do with the motto sex sells. If people respond to cute animal ears, then it will be exploited by companies for a cheap thrill.

So you are saying eastern games do not over-sexualized their games to appeal to a certain focus group, compared to western games?

he's saying both east and west sell games based on sex appeal

grisu

"so you are saying", isn't that memed out by now?
If I am saying anything then that it has been there forever not imported somehow recently in the last 5 years.

Wether they do it more than the west is beyond my personal grasp, I just picked 3 older very well regarded games I know from the west that would fall into your category of overly uneccessery sexualising representation.
The West made elves sexy, they made dark witches sexy, they made a grave robber/explorer sexy, they literally made a race that's commonly known as a sexy stripper slave aka. Twi'lek. All the formfitting top model body spandax certainly doesn't help in that regard either.
91969bdde42ec12722dd578197_YyAxMTI4eDYzNSszNisyMAJyZSAxOTIwIDEwODADOWM5NmQ0YzdkNzk=.jpg

91969bdde42ec12722dd578197_YyAxMTI4eDYzNSszNisyMAJyZSAxOTIwIDEwODADOWM5NmQ0YzdkNzk=.jpg

I don't know what you think about when you say "anime in ashes". Anime isn't a genre or a style, it's a medium like paper is. That might be an interesting point to clarify. What is "anime" to you?

Atama

I agree with the OP. I’ve had it with Asian-style RPGs (MMO or otherwise). Not classic-style JRPGs (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy) because those are genre-defining classics. But the newer style. I’ve found that there is an aesthetic and gameplay style that even if it is attractive at first gets old fast. (Keep grinding the same mobs so your S class gear gets SS class, be sure to spend a ton of money too because you have to pay to win!) I have learned that if a game even looks like that, move on, or I’ll regret it.

I’m glad that AoC will stay firmly in the west, aesthetically and otherwise. It will be refreshing.

However, there is a personal irony. With all that said, there is one big exception to all of that. My favorite anime of all time is Sword Art Online. There was a feel to that show, of everyone working together from launch to try to succeed and survive within an MMORPG. To build a reputation, survive deranged player-killers, and over time become legends. I think AoC, more than any other game, has the potential to feel like that. So as much as I rail against anime influences, I hope more than anything to be able to play an online game that feels like a particular anime.

(To be fair, SAO had an aesthetic very much like western RPGs so avoided a lot of visual anime tropes. And I can do without the whole “can’t log out of the game and if you die in the game you die in real life” aspects...)

Jamation

Anime is just a type of animation though...everything in anime could be told in the exact same way using a different medium.

But I think I got the meaning behind the message from the rest of the posts.
Seems like the main issue is sexualization of characters/waifu related content. Might be wrong though, but that's what I got from what was said.

Based on what's been said, shown, and discussed over the forums about female armor and design it seems they are taking a more realistic approach that still has an appealing design. It seems that they're goal is not to over-sexualize their content and instead base it more in realism. (So no stripper armor)
Keeping that in the mind, the character that a person creates will still fit in with the aesthetic of the world, but that's not going to stop people from making "waifus". I also don't see the harm in it. If that's how a person wants to play then more power to them. If a person wants to make a fox girl and it fits in with the theme and style then I have no problem with them doing that. It's just a personal preference.

However, I do hope they keep any "Japanese" inspired themes to a minimum if possible because yeah....that's in every game and it's...just a lot...all the time...

I also missed one of the examples a few of y'all said. I don't know if I have a filter on or it got censored but all I can see are stars and I can't piece together what it was supposed to say.

Nagash

Like I said before people put the blame on anime when its the fan base that makes it toxic. so of the best storytelling is from anime and manga/light novels

Makinoji

If we're talking about ridiculousness then stufferton should've never been introduced. This opens up the door to other things.
If you're just worried about the over-sexualization of races then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. There will be costumes that sexualize a player's toon. Now sexualization is open for interpretation as with most things.
Someone with a prudish view could argue showing shoulders or necklines are too sexual. There are even religious groups who view a female wearing jeans or shorts is too sexy. Also the reason pedophiles don't see themselves as perverts.

The problem with censorship, while you're catering to one group of people you're also isolating another. The cycle is endless. So in order to appease all parties you have to incorporate practical clothing as well as form-fitting or semi-revealing ones. Another solution would be a toggle option.

As for if Anime things should be allowed into AOC, Idk. The reason being that a lot of good stories dealing with political/social and economic atmospheres come from anime. Even some of the fashion, hairstyles, weapon styles, worlds, creatures, and fighting styles can be an inspiration.

Atama

Jamation wrote: »

I also missed one of the examples a few of y'all said. I don't know if I have a filter on or it got censored but all I can see are stars and I can't piece together what it was supposed to say.

I see the **** too.

Hexcat

You're leaving out a lot of good stuff that can be implemented in western MMORPG by saying "no anime"

It´s not like EVERY ANIME only has cat ears, small oversexualized female armor, and weapons too big to be wielded,

Frosty Coffee

As a person that enjoys watching anime content from time to time, I have to say that anime styled themes should be acceptable. It should not be grounded just because a style of players have suddenly come into the fold before Ashes was ever built. I feel the developers should be completely free to do as they choose and keep in mind elements that would be acceptable to the world of Ashes. If it adopts an anime style approach to certain content then I am all for it. For example, the Fate series is anime and has glorified epic combat scenes that is truly awesome to watch with great sound effects as well. I would be happy to see content like that in a MMORPG just because it would bring a level of tension and epic fantasy that all can enjoy! People can be people, have their own thing but the game should not stray from its vision. While also keeping an open mind about adopting new concepts no matter where it is being drawn from.

Some may not agree with me but there are some pretty cool fights in the Fate series I really like which I think could be easily introduced in some way, shape or form: Start at 4:35 of the video

https://youtu.be/tGz42vpeGKk?t=275

Noaani

Chezshire wrote: »

You're leaving out a lot of good stuff that can be implemented in western MMORPG by saying "no anime"

It´s not like EVERY ANIME only has cat ears, small oversexualized female armor, and weapons too big to be wielded,

This is true, but I think it is probably safe to say that the OP wants Ashes to exclude things that are generally only found in anime, rather than excluding all things found in anime.

These are vastly different statements, and I have to admit that I agree with one of them.

If you can find me some popular classic examples of western fantasy literature that are not intended to emulate anime, and involve people wearing cats ears as a general clothing choice, then as far as I am concerned, cats ears in Ashes would be fine. However, if the only examples of that specific clothing choice that can be found are from anime, or are inspired by anime, then I personally think that is where Intrepid should draw a line - arbitrary as it is.

Jamation

noaani wrote: »

If you can find me some popular classic examples of western fantasy literature that are not intended to emulate anime, and involve people wearing cats ears as a general clothing choice, then as far as I am concerned, cats ears in Ashes would be fine. However, if the only examples of that specific clothing choice that can be found are from anime, or are inspired by anime, then I personally think that is where Intrepid should draw a line - arbitrary as it is.

I think out of everything I read this helped clarify the point/issues the best for me. Thanks for that!

Wording it like that got me thinking about things like "what have I seen in anime before anime" and I realized I hadn't seen things like cat ears being in other forms of media before it became more popular, aside from when hermione turned into that gross cat thing with the potion mix up. And maybe catwoman (but I've never seen or read it so I don't know much about her)
Same with the "**** girl is actually nine billion years old" trend because I think showing stuff like that to a wider and mainstream western audience would not sit as well.

Those two are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, but a lot of the other tropes have been in western media for a while, just under a different name like isekai or harems for example.

Atama

Chezshire wrote: »

You're leaving out a lot of good stuff that can be implemented in western MMORPG by saying "no anime"

It´s not like EVERY ANIME only has cat ears, small oversexualized female armor, and weapons too big to be wielded,

Number one, cat ears do not originate from anime. They’re not a defining trait of anime. Fetishized, hypersexual cat girls are, but not that one feature in isolation. I’m guessing cat ears will be an option for Tulnar, since they have animalistic parts, but I doubt someone will see a Tulnar and instantly be reminded of anime.

What is the “good stuff” being left out? And keep in mind, the OP is talking about traits that would be instantly recognizable as anime tropes and would remind players of Japanese animation, not anything and everything that has appeared in anime. Going back to SAO which I mentioned before, let’s take Kirito’s sword the Elucidator:
31HB3UnqB4L._AC_.jpg

While familiar to fans of that particular series, it is a fairly normal-looking sword, not badly proportioned, and it would fit in fine with the game’s aesthetic. I doubt there’d be much objection to the inclusion of a sword like that. Precisely because it doesn’t fit any anime tropes and doesn’t immediately remind anyone of anime.

I’m curious what specifically we’d be missing out on in your mind.

unknown

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Lostforever

I hate to break this to the OP but chain mail bikini Armour was invited by western fantasy long before Eastern Anime fantasy! Have you not read Conan?

grisu

@noaani arguably Disney is strutting that line since forever. Their whole comic lineup are "humanised" animals.
But if we are talking classic literature, I mean the cats musical exists.
Jack J. London, while not making his characters human has written from the perspective of animals but with a human like expression.
Kavka uses it as a Thematik metaphor.

Superhero comics have used animal traits and visualization of them forever.

I don't know what you are looking for but yeah I wouldn't say it's an Easter exclusive phenomenon.

Plateau

Noaani

grisu wrote: »

@noaani arguably Disney is strutting that line since forever. Their whole comic lineup are "humanised" animals.
But if we are talking classic literature, I mean the cats musical exists.
Jack J. London, while not making his characters human has written from the perspective of animals but with a human like expression.
Kavka uses it as a Thematik metaphor.

Superhero comics have used animal traits and visualization of them forever.

I don't know what you are looking for but yeah I wouldn't say it's an Easter exclusive phenomenon.

I'm personally fine with anthropomorphic animals if there is a reason given in the lore behind it. I wouldn't expect it to be done in a Disney or Broadway Musical fashion though.

I'm also fine with people taking on aesthetic traits of an animal if they have some of the physical traits of the game - again as long as there is a lore based reason behind it.

However, this is a long way away from what some anime seems to do (coming from the perspective of someone that doesn't pay anime any attention).

If this is what anime does, then their execution of it is what I take issue with.

grisu

I'm just saying that it's not anime exclusive. Those are all western publications. Some of them classic literature pieces from well recognized writers.
Some of them long running pop/nerd culture.

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