Theory crafting

So as of now WoW devs identify siming and theory crafting as a problem, what do Ashes devs think about this, and what do you as player think about this, is it really a problem?
Since all of the solutions so far backfired.

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Srdjan91

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

I see you discovered AoC wiki. Good.

HazardNumberSeven

And not everyone will play in the same way.

Things become subjective when they're so varied. What's the best 'leveling/pve/pvp' build to you, might be a horrible one to me and the way I play.

HazardNumberSeven

Srky wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

I see you discovered AoC wiki. Good.

You're welcome, I thought it would help you.

Noaani

Indeed.

Even just latency - players with a high ping may want to take more tab abilities over action, in a game like this, that could mske a far bigger difference than anything.

That isn't even factoring in player preference, which will also drastically alter things.

Aardvark

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

There won't be a best build, it's impossible. The game has so many areas of content, and classes are balanced around group content not 1v1, and around a rock, paper, scissors design.

No class can be the best at everything. Every class will have things it is good at, and things it is not so good at. That's intentional.

There definately can be build of the month due to balance issues and bugs. I am looking back at AoC where if you unlocked the shield skill but put 0 points in it instead of reflecting back 0% you reflecting back 100% damage. They were unkillable in pvp for like 3 weeks. I am looking at wow when death knights for a few months could not only take on almost any class they could often take on 2-3 people at a time for a few months. Most games just switch from 1 op flavor of the month to the next to the next.

Songcaller

In AoC they left the gems at values of 2 and 3 for One Handed Damage for nigh on a year. My Raid Guardian (Difficult to kill) one-shotted people with sword and shield without even activating a full combo, just the first directional attack until my build forced the GMs to reduce Gems to 0.2 and 0.3 lol.

Noaani

Aardvark wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

There won't be a best build, it's impossible. The game has so many areas of content, and classes are balanced around group content not 1v1, and around a rock, paper, scissors design.

No class can be the best at everything. Every class will have things it is good at, and things it is not so good at. That's intentional.

There definately can be build of the month due to balance issues and bugs. I am looking back at AoC where if you unlocked the shield skill but put 0 points in it instead of reflecting back 0% you reflecting back 100% damage. They were unkillable in pvp for like 3 weeks. I am looking at wow when death knights for a few months could not only take on almost any class they could often take on 2-3 people at a time for a few months. Most games just switch from 1 op flavor of the month to the next to the next.

In AoC, that was a bug. I assume the same with WoW (though with that game, it could have been a design feature).

You can't really use bugs as a way of saying a game will have a "best build".

Srdjan91

noaani wrote: »

Lets assume that is the case - but remember this is an assuption.

The best build will likely have some augments to abilities that require a specefic node type, that has a specific religious building and specific social organization building. It will also likely require your guild to take specific options that may not be best for the guild as a whole.

Now, if you need religious, social and node type augments to make this assumed "best build", you would need one node of that type at metropolis level, that has that one religious building AND that specific social organization building.

There is no guatantee that you will ever have that combination on your server - in fact, it is likely that you wont.

So even if (and this is still an assumption) there is one best build, that build may only be available to the population of one node on one server.

This is all before we factor in guild options, let alone the impact support classes will have on altering how things go.

There are going to be so many variables that no one will be able to point to a single build and claim it as the best for everyone, as not everyone will have access to all augments.

You may see people say if you have {this particular set of circumstances} then this would be the best build for you, but that is about it.

True that. No offence, but...
One of mmo(rpg)'s which shouldn't had 'the best builds' based on how much variety skill builds and other stuff have (more than AoC) at the end it ended up with having 'the best build' for x content. Talking about Path of Exile.
I know this stuff happened in alot of mmo's. I've played lots of them since my first ever in 2005. and I was even a dev for class balancing in Aion.

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

And not everyone will play in the same way.

Things become subjective when they're so varied. What's the best 'leveling/pve/pvp' build to you, might be a horrible one to me and the way I play.

In mmo's I too play how I like and what's good build for me, except when it comes to hardcore raiding or pvp.

Now we will wait and see and hope Mr Sharif and AoC team take all time needed and dont rush with the game.

HazardNumberSeven

Path of Exile isn't an MMO or a PvX game. Other players can't get in your way or stop you, and you can't progress through the game in any way but the one single progression path offered ... PvE.
Ashes has many avenues of progression, preventing any 1 class from being the best at progressing.

And "hardcore raiding and PvP" are one in the same, when the entire world is PvX. You may be trying to do a hardcore raid, but people can still come and attack your group with their group, or you may be trying to do hardcore PvP, but every class is countered by some other class by design.

Every class is needed in PvP and in PvE, and everything is balanced around group content. You can't be the best because you're one person.

mcjenkins

I'm under the impression that Theory Crafting just won't be easily accessible considering how different everyone's experience will be due to the nodes literally determining what items are available within the game.

U5urPator

mcjenkins wrote: »

I'm under the impression that Theory Crafting just won't be easily accessible considering how different everyone's experience will be due to the nodes literally determining what items are available within the game.

Eventually, everything will be in the wiki. So, you can read up on stuff, build tools etc. Which then people will use to build their optimal builds.

Noaani

Srky wrote: »

Path of Exile.

Every PoE build is based on having specific unique items - in many cases, very rare uniques with very specific rolls.

If you don't have those items, the best build for your class is totally different.

Cold 0ne FTB

I think it is too early to worry about balance or theory crafting. From what the devs have already stated their will likely be no meters in the game. Because of that and because of how intricate player vs player politics will be I don't think we need to worry about theorycrafting getting to the point where people are overly toxic. That being said this game has a very strong competitive theme to it and it might not be the game for everybody. I would not recommend this game to somebody who doesn't like losing or if you do not like being pushed to be better. It is the type of game that no matter how good you get there will be another level that you will want to reach.

Plateau

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