Some Feedback from todays AMA

Just finished watching todays AMA. Agreed with almost everything that Steven said save for two concerns.

1st, Multiboxing: I disagree that multiboxing should be allowed, and there're many reasons why. With a game like this the economy is going to be extremely important, multiboxers destroy economies. I am currently playing Classic WoW, there's a resource similar to what Steven was explaining in todays AMA called Black Lotus. These resources that are extremely rare, and spawn at random nodes are completely controlled by these multiboxers. They pick them all, and only put a few up on the AH to force the market on these items to be artificially heightened. In open world PvP, they have a huge advantage, they have a huge advantage in farming resources from mobs as well. The question I would ask would be what's the benefit for the game to have multiboxers in the game? I only see negatives. Yes I understand that it may be difficult to tell the difference between multiple players from the same household, but isn't that what having a dedicated GM force is for?

2nd, cosmetic cash shop: Personally I believe a key part of MMOs is the fashion game. Seeing someone with a super rare item, that you may have no idea how to even get, but you know they did something awesome to achieve adds a really important drive to lower level players to reach endgame, and for endgame players to chase for. Personally I'd prefer that there were absolutely no cosmetic items that could be bought from the store. But, I highly doubt this is something that will change, so what I would really like to be done is to not have the cash shop cosmetics on the same level as legendaries. The legendaries should be the coolest items in the game, and the grind to achieve them should be difficult. It diminishes a lot of the cool factor for legendaries if I can just go to the cash shop and buy something that looks just as good. Steven said he wanted to be respectful, and provide for all players that may not have the time to get these legendaries, and he wanted to make sure they can still finish their collection. I would argue this is counter to almost every other system you have placed in the game. Not everyone is going to be a king, not everyone is going to get flying mounts, not everyone is going to have land. These achievements are important BECAUSE not everyone can invest the time, or are good enough to achieve them.

Overall, I'm very excited about the game, and can't wait to hear more. Hopefully this is the right spot for me to put feedback, if not I'd appreciate if someone could direct to me to the correct location.

Thanks!

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Cold 0ne FTB

Something I have seen other games do that worked well is have unique cosmetic for BIS or legendary items.

Wandering Mist

Regarding multiboxing, if you have a way of stopping multiboxing in a way that doesn't harm households with multiple people that each have their own account, then by all means share it.

As for the cash shop, according to Steven is isn't financially viable to just have a subscription fee, hence why the cash shop exists in the first place. Out of all the monetisation options available, what is planned for Ashes is the healthiest for the game.

LockedOut

The reason multiboxing is strong is because of macros, and scripts; allowing one person to easily control multiple characters simultaneously. I haven't heard if he plans on stopping the use of Macros/scripts, but that with the combined effort of GMs to seek out, and find obvious abusers is the key. You don't need to have IP bans for multiple accounts, but maybe it would flag the account so a GM can go and watch to see if it's multiple people playing different characters, or a single player controlling multiple.

Steven has said that his rational for not having a box cost is because of his faith in the product he's produced. Why is not having a cosmetic shop any different? If the game is successful the sub fee alone should make a profit. If this isn't the case as I said in the original post the main issue I would have would be cosmetics being on equal footing visually as legendaries.

Nagash

While I dislike cash shops they have been pushing this for a while now and I don't see them scrapping it. As a side note, what other MMOs in this day and age don't have a cash shop of some kind?

LockedOut

I agree I don't see them scrapping it, that's why I offered a compromise. The coolest looking gear should not be purchasable, it should be obtained by difficult challenges. Still offer cool cosmetics, just don't make them on "par" with the legionaries.

This MMO has caught my attention, and I would assume everyone else because they are NOT following the standard of todays MMOs. It's the whole reason why Steven said he wanted to make his own game; he was just fed up with the current way MMOs were being handled. Just because other MMOs have cash shops as standard practice does not mean it's good for the game.

tugowar

LockedOut

Thanks for the clarification tugowar! Happy to see what he means by multiboxing. Shouldn't be as big of an issue if he follows that precedent!

Nagash

LockedOut wrote: »

I agree I don't see them scrapping it, that's why I offered a compromise. The coolest looking gear should not be purchasable, it should be obtained by difficult challenges. Still offer cool cosmetics, just don't make them on "par" with the legionaries.

This MMO has caught my attention, and I would assume everyone else because they are NOT following the standard of todays MMOs. It's the whole reason why Steven said he wanted to make his own game; he was just fed up with the current way MMOs were being handled. Just because other MMOs have cash shops as standard practice does not mean it's good for the game.

I agree let's just hope ashes does not waste the good faith

Wandering Mist

LockedOut wrote: »

The reason multiboxing is strong is because of macros, and scripts; allowing one person to easily control multiple characters simultaneously. I haven't heard if he plans on stopping the use of Macros/scripts, but that with the combined effort of GMs to seek out, and find obvious abusers is the key. You don't need to have IP bans for multiple accounts, but maybe it would flag the account so a GM can go and watch to see if it's multiple people playing different characters, or a single player controlling multiple.

Steven has said that his rational for not having a box cost is because of his faith in the product he's produced. Why is not having a cosmetic shop any different? If the game is successful the sub fee alone should make a profit. If this isn't the case as I said in the original post the main issue I would have would be cosmetics being on equal footing visually as legendaries.

A box cost creates an additional barrier for entry, whereas a cosmetic-only cash shop doesn't.

LockedOut

Nagash wrote: »

LockedOut wrote: »

I agree I don't see them scrapping it, that's why I offered a compromise. The coolest looking gear should not be purchasable, it should be obtained by difficult challenges. Still offer cool cosmetics, just don't make them on "par" with the legionaries.

This MMO has caught my attention, and I would assume everyone else because they are NOT following the standard of todays MMOs. It's the whole reason why Steven said he wanted to make his own game; he was just fed up with the current way MMOs were being handled. Just because other MMOs have cash shops as standard practice does not mean it's good for the game.

I agree let's just hope ashes does not waste the good faith

I'm new to this community, but you've given me a great first impression! Many times in other communities people have a hard time saying they agree. It's refreshing to have a conversation that ends this way, thank you!

tugowar

Oh you think is the end of the conversation? Just wait til said naysayers come in and circle jerk it to page 3.

LockedOut

Well it was nice while it lasted! haha.

Wandering Mist

LockedOut wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

LockedOut wrote: »

I agree I don't see them scrapping it, that's why I offered a compromise. The coolest looking gear should not be purchasable, it should be obtained by difficult challenges. Still offer cool cosmetics, just don't make them on "par" with the legionaries.

This MMO has caught my attention, and I would assume everyone else because they are NOT following the standard of todays MMOs. It's the whole reason why Steven said he wanted to make his own game; he was just fed up with the current way MMOs were being handled. Just because other MMOs have cash shops as standard practice does not mean it's good for the game.

I agree let's just hope ashes does not waste the good faith

I'm new to this community, but you've given me a great first impression! Many times in other communities people have a hard time saying they agree. It's refreshing to have a conversation that ends this way, thank you!

Oh you sweet naive soul, thinking that these forums are an echo chamber that will agree with you on everything. You'll learn soon enough. Anyway, going back to the issue of the cosmetics (if it even IS an issue, which I really don't think it is but I digress), beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As long as the paid cosmetics are noticeably more textured or have better particle effects on them, etc I would just wait and see what the in-game achievable cosmetics look like before jumping on the "omg paid cosmetics are bad!!!!!" bandwagon.

LockedOut

I hope it's not an echo chamber. I encourage people to deconstruct my ideas, and have conversations with the goal of the betterment of the game. If it turns out that through the discussion that some people can agree that what's important is to not waste the good faith that's been built, I won't hesitate to compliment those people as unfortunately that mentality is seldom in places such as these.

unknown

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Wandering Mist

Tsukasa wrote: »

Anyone defends multi-boxing needs to shut their mouth. There is literally nothing good about it. Ruins every game!

Any small advantage is an advantage, therefore P2W.
Also when Steven said "it'a like second account" instead of alt for primary account. He said the same in 2017 to alts in the same account making the owner self-sufficient. This mentality could kill the game!

I don't see anyone claiming multiboxing is good for the game, but how do you stop it without harming so many innocent people in the process? It's all very well saying that there's a problem, but if you don't have a solution to the problem then it's rather pointless.

LockedOut

I offered a solution. It's not our job to tell them how to fix an issue, it's our job to say what we want, and don't want. If we can offer a solution all the better, but it's not wrong to say "I don't like x, because..." That's good feedback.

Wandering Mist

LockedOut wrote: »

I offered a solution. It's not our job to tell them how to fix an issue, it's our job to say what we want, and don't want. If we can offer a solution all the better, but it's not wrong to say "I don't like x, because..." That's good feedback.

What solution? To have GMs magically find the multiboxers? That's not a solution. And no, it's not good feedback when the devs have outright said that they are aware of the problem.

tugowar

It’s good feedback still.

unknown

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