A genuine question to Hardcore/focused PvE players.

I've seen a lot of people coming into discord and the forums with a hard focus on one aspect of the game, and Im not actually sure people understand what a PvX game actually involves because of how modern mmo's have gone direction wise.

I really dont see competitive pve being established in this game for a long time, the only thing I can really see is world first kills on world bosses etc.
People are so focused on things like dps meters etc that I think you are failing to see just how pvp centric this game is, there will be very few safe havens for you to focus on one playstyle alone. You will be contested at all points in dungeons, world bosses etc people will flag to get loot from you, take boss kills away etc etc. I love all content in the game, and I especially love the vision of AoC with all systems and playstyles being intertwined.

What do hardcore pve players expect from this game, how are you going to deal with risk being involved in pretty much all meaningful pve content?? Because loot/wealth is power in a game like this, and securing kills and dealing with conflict is where I see the challenge of this game going, not on how efficient you are at dps etc etc.

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Wandering Mist

This will be my first real PvX game, and as a hardcore raider I don't know how it will work. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

Lincoln Hawk

Wandering Mist wrote: »

This will be my first real PvX game, and as a hardcore raider I don't know how it will work. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

Appreciate the honesty.

Nagash

I'm just here for the bodies and the loot

Xrael

This is not a game meant for pure PvE players that dislike the idea of PvP.

If you wish to play an MMO like that, go play FF14.

PvP is at the center of everything in this game. So even players who wish to only do PvE, will have to participate in at least some PvP from time to time.

Leiloni

This is a good question/discussion to have given some of the discussion that I saw in the Discord over the weekend. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding what an open world PvX or PvPvE game really looks like.

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

This will be my first real PvX game, and as a hardcore raider I don't know how it will work. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

I'm the same.

If it turns out to not be the game for me (no real raiding scene), I have no issue bowing out - even if there is nothing to go to.

Lincoln Hawk

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

This will be my first real PvX game, and as a hardcore raider I don't know how it will work. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

I'm the same.

If it turns out to not be the game for me (no real raiding scene), I have no issue bowing out - even if there is nothing to go to.

The fact you would leave without trying to get the devs mould the game to your playstyle is worth an applause.
I think there will be a "raiding scene", the thing with it, is its not something you can focus on alone, as there are just too many variables in what can happen at any moment in a game like this. I dont see it being competitive in the way wow players look at raiding though.

Tam Hawkins

I will mostly craft and do pve content. Never was intterested inpvp.

My whole interest in this game is despite its pvp so if I enjoy it or will even play it depends 100% on how annoying pvp players are and how often people start to just randomly stab everyone around them.

Leiloni

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

This will be my first real PvX game, and as a hardcore raider I don't know how it will work. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

I'm the same.

If it turns out to not be the game for me (no real raiding scene), I have no issue bowing out - even if there is nothing to go to.

There won't really be an instanced raiding scene in this game. They'll have lots of difficult world bosses, and supposedly the further you go into open world dungeons the harder it gets so if you get to the end you may see some challenging stuff, there. But it's not the sort of game where you'll get together with 40 people at 8 pm every Tuesday. The risk vs reward idea is at the heart of most things in an open world PvX game, so any really difficult content that rewards good loot is going to be highly contested. You'll have to figure out how to either a) take down a boss in secret before anyone knows it's spawned, or b) have a second raid of players on PvP defense while you take down a boss that people know has spawned.

Even in other PvX games I've played that did have instanced PvE content, you still had to fight your way to the entrance and were often met with PvP before you got in. But from what we've heard so far, this game doesn't really have instanced PvE outside of a minority of story focused content.

Hansrutger

If they say no addons and no DPS meter it will just mean that there will be more time invested into finding out what the best choices are, and much more than that it won't really change anything. Hard-core PvE players aren't going to "ruin" anyone's game because they will just stick together just like semi hard-core people will stay together and casual players with lack of time will stay together.

What it can lead to is spending more time with your guild theorycrafting which is a really good thing. It will give guilds who do this an advantage and that same thing can turn onto you by another guild because they found out something you didn't. I like the direction the game is going as it is and I'll still go "all in" so to speak on the PvE front.

Noaani

Leiloni wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

This will be my first real PvX game, and as a hardcore raider I don't know how it will work. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

I'm the same.

If it turns out to not be the game for me (no real raiding scene), I have no issue bowing out - even if there is nothing to go to.

There won't really be an instanced raiding scene in this game.

I didn't say instanced.

I expect there to be "some" instanced raid content, but the bulk of it will by open.

Leiloni

noaani wrote: »

I didn't say instanced.

I expect there to be "some" instanced raid content, but the bulk of it will by open.

Unless they change directions it doesn't sound like that will be the case. He's emphasized repeatedly over the years that 20% of content will be instanced for story content but everything else will be open world. In fact in a podcast he was directly asked the instanced raid question and he started talking about world bosses. Honestly I'm not sure where this idea came from that they're doing WoW style raids because it's not something they've really talked about.

Songcaller

Leiloni wrote: »

Unless they change directions it doesn't sound like that will be the case. He's emphasized repeatedly over the years that 20% of content will be instanced for story content but everything else will be open world. In fact in a podcast he was directly asked the instanced raid question and he started talking about world bosses. Honestly I'm not sure where this idea came from that they're doing WoW style raids because it's not something they've really talked about.

Its called the PvE Creep, all PvP Titles experience the PvE Creep. I hope Ashes doesn't buckle to the PvE Creep.

B1uefalc0n

I think this topic raised a good question in terms of what hardcore PvE players are going to do. It is important to understand that this game is PvX based meaning if you want to play hardcore you're going to have to be ready for everything and not just one or the other. This is a new game and when playing a new game it is impossible to bring your standards of what certain content should be like with you from other games. If that was the case then there would be no point in switching as you would be playing the same game with a different skin. AoC is being very ambitious with its systems and what they have planned with the game not to mention the enormous amount of trust they place in the players to keep many of the systems afloat ie.. mayors and node collaborations.

The main thing to understand is that there is no place in this game for hardcore pve or hardcore pvp players if you want to be hardcore you have to excel at both. Hardcore PVP players will need to do dungeons for rare craftable loot to better their gear or outright complete raids for the gear drops as well in order to be on top of the game. Hardcore PVE players will have to deal with other groups challenging your tag on a world boss or defending your caravan from those who would take a cut of your hard-earned supplies. You will have to defend your nodes from those who want to progress other nodes and take what you have farmed. All aspects of this game force the community to participate in both hence PvX if you want to play at a higher level.

What I'm trying to say is take the time to understand the larger picture of the game and if you like it or wanna give it a try be prepared to roll up some sleeves because this game is going to take you out of your comfort zone.

Varkun

That first time we get a guild take down a world boss then gets attacked after they loot those legendary crafting materials by another guild in an attempt to get said materials as a loot drop. Will make things kind of interesting.

On another note there very well may be some world bosses/raids that may be common to all servers thus competitive cross server world firsts or maybe not just server firsts.

My personal feeling is that AOC is going to be its own animal in the MMO market, maybe the first of its kind or maybe the last time will tell. AOC will find its market though there is such a hunger for a decent MMO out there atm but it will not be for everyone.

Noaani

Leiloni wrote: »

Honestly I'm not sure where this idea came from that they're doing WoW style raids because it's not something they've really talked about.

I never said anything about WoW style raids either.

I want good content. Challenging content.

Songcaller

It is possible it will be like Lineage 2, so much else is, but, Steven specifically said only 20% will be instanced around story based quests. It is possible a Legendary Boss is part of story based quests yet I wouldn't expect it. I'd expect Legendary Bosses to be contested, not instanced. You could possibly contest a Legendary Boss outside of the Instance but I'd also hope it would be a PvP Zone beyond the flagging limitations.

If there are Instances, and, Instances are part of the Corruption system, then everything will be on rails.

Sometimes I feel we go around in circles. There are multiple options available to IS so I don't count anything out but I do have concerns sometimes.

Aardvark

Neurath wrote: »

It is possible it will be like Lineage 2, so much else is, but, Steven specifically said only 20% will be instanced around story based quests. It is possible a Legendary Boss is part of story based quests yet I wouldn't expect it. I'd expect Legendary Bosses to be contested, not instanced. You could possibly contest a Legendary Boss outside of the Instance but I'd also hope it would be a PvP Zone beyond the flagging limitations.

If there are Instances, and, Instances are part of the Corruption system, then everything will be on rails.

Sometimes I feel we go around in circles. There are multiple options available to IS so I don't count anything out but I do have concerns sometimes.

Lets hope its not like archage unchained where bosses have half the server waiting for them to spawn and griefers flagging and running into the other raids aoes and cleaves intenetionally, then their entire raid insta reporting you for hitting them sending your character to jail for an hr. Dumbest boss system ever!

Songcaller

You can't run into the AoEs in Ashes, not unless the AoEers want you to. I think its a silly system to click 'Accept' but at least I will have only the one character to worry about because I'm not a multiboxer lol.

You will have people waiting for spawns. Points of Interest are where Zergs will appear if Zergs are anywhere.

You would have to plan and use tactics. If it is a non-corruption zone then PvP will be excellent. If it's a corruptible zone then PvP will be a pain and whoever's there first will get the kill.

The flag mechanics will allow 'Griefers' - You could have a whole different raid turn up and out DPS you. I don't think you could report a Raid for it because its in the design at present.

Songcaller

Yeah, I understand your outlook. 20% Does appear to be a high number if we don't count Story Bosses for Raid Groups. It would make sense why they won't reveal the story or lore before the game launches. I've seen Raid Bosses be linked to Story Quests in other games too. I just don't know to what extent conflict will occur. I hope it is more advanced than L2, much like the corruption system.

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