Define griefing

I am seeing a lot of PK = griefing type arguments on here lately. People are so terrified of griefing they muddle the meaning of the word to include anything that slightly inconveniences you. It seems to me that there are quite a few meanings to the word and the reason we all go in circles with the same argument every new MMO that features the possibility of non consensual pvp. Lets try to define the meanings first before we do this every two days.

Anti pvper's definition: The anti pvper defines griefing as any act of hostility that can result in lost time or progression. They might try and cover up what they mean or claim they only want to a fair and balanced system etc, but at heart they simply dont want pvp at all. Using the term and the fear of griefing as a platform to base their arguments over.

They average players definition: The average player generally defines griefing as any focused attempt to delay or torment a player who has no recourse or path to victory. This ranges from a higher level person camping out a low level quest objective or a group of people chasing out numbered players or lower level areas for kicks. This is most likely what most people think of when they think grief.

The PvPer definition: The average PvP minded player would typically define griefing as any attempt to abuse game mechanics to circumvent a fight instead of taking part in one or sniping members of a party while camping in a safe zone with no intention of engaging in a straight up fight. Generally these players are only worried about people unfairly stopping them from engaging in content. Should be noted that most people with this mindset also agree with the average players definition since it is not mutually exclusive.

The PvE players definition: As well as the average players mindset these players generally see greifing as any time content is closed off in someway that is perceived as unfair. A group of players causing havoc during a world boss attempt with the objective of just not letting that content be done or when the entrance to a dungeon or dungeon itself has people in it or at the entrance with the sole objective of preventing access to content.

Gathering players definition: When games feature gathering another definition must also be considered. These players as well as agreeing with the average players mindset as well as the PvE players mindset will see griefing as any time resources are perceived to be unfairly hard to collect. This ranges from players utilizing safe unintended ways to scout out where gathers are for their group to pk and take for resources all the way to players doing things just to slow down or prevent gathers from collecting resources. Dragging mobs into gathering spots or using skills that interrupt the gathering process for instance.

Now most people can agree with multiple definitions at once. There are people who wont agree to any of this as greifing. Generally the griefers themselves. So its important now to define who or what a griefer is.

Griefer: Any player who bases their enjoyment around the harassment or exclusion of players from content they wish to do. Good examples of this are team killing or low level player ganking. A griefer specifically targets the player behind the character rather than the system around the game as a way of fighting. In this objective most will use any tactic that produces frustration or annoyance. Any player can grief and any player can become a griefer. Most players have participated in a form of griefing at one time or another.

It is important to define griefing and griefers to prevent the extremes of definitions. Anti PvP arguments crop up and gain traction under the guise of other definitions. People who do not want PvP in any shape or form in a game do not care that you do. They dont care that there are thousands of other games that cater to them. They never have and never will. As far as they are concerned you can go play Call of duty if you want to pvp.

Griefers if they have there way are the exact opposite. They dont care that the game wasnt meant to be played that way or a mechanic isnt designed for how they use it. They never have and never will. The objective is to have fun by preventing others from fun.

I recommend when discussing griefing and anti grief mechanics that you determine what type of definition people use. A random attack on another unsuspecting player is not griefing. Killing people for resources instead of collecting them isn't griefing. Locking down an area for your group isn't inherently griefing. PvP isnt on its own griefing. It is just the most common vehicle for grief.

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Comments

Songcaller

Lazyactor wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

PvP Will not be removed from Ashes. Those PvE Hordes who will hope to remove PvP will be sadly mistaken. Have no fear, PvP is as much a part of Ashes as PvE. It's a PvX game which is love from me.

I would love to agree with you but if a game all about PvP can be completely written off the table why couldn't PvX? People said this about new world the entire time it was being bombarded. Just saying. I worry about it because an MMO without meaningful conflict is not one that is even a little bit enticing.

The systems mean there are no ways of obtaining PvP Armour, unless they add PvP Experience. If they add PvP Experience then there would be a separation between PvP and PvE but the PvP would go insane, milking up PvP Experience from anywhere and that would increase ganking and Open World PvP. I'm not against Open World PvP but I think it is easier on PvE players if their Armour works in PvE and PvP, because otherwise the PvE players become fodder for the PvP players.

Haratsu

If I go by Something awful raids ... I would count body collision as a system that was used for great grief. doorways and lots of people blocking NPCs. That also would abuse guards while people try to PK these green flagged players to get access to what ever npc or building. Not that these things happen often, but it would be naive not to think about misuse of systems. If collision is a thing maybe have social-skills in town where you can push trough a crowd without really moving anyones position but the characters muddle trough somehow.

Wololo

I think griefing is a good thing as long it doesnt come to verbal insults. It makes ppl come back to fight or rage and call friends in the middle of the night so you can have some mass PvP anywhere, anytime. Its tough having to hear the initial QQing but the reward is sweet like candy

Nagash

Wololo wrote: »

I think griefing is a good thing as long it doesnt come to verbal insults. It makes ppl come back to fight or rage and call friends in the middle of the night so you can have some mass PvP anywhere, anytime. Its tough having to hear the initial QQing but the reward is sweet like candy

Revenge is a dish best served in bloody vengeance

Wololo

Nagash wrote: »

Wololo wrote: »

I think griefing is a good thing as long it doesnt come to verbal insults. It makes ppl come back to fight or rage and call friends in the middle of the night so you can have some mass PvP anywhere, anytime. Its tough having to hear the initial QQing but the reward is sweet like candy

Revenge is a dish best served in bloody vengeance

damn right !!

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