What kind of combat dynamics do you guys prefer?

As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?

I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.

How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?

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Noaani

Valento92 wrote: »

As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?

I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.

How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?

I attempted to play GW2 again a while ago - I played it at launch for a few months and then stopped when there was nothing to do.

When I went back, I'd completely forgotten my account details but decided I'd just start up a new account.

Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.

I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.

So yeah, not that.

Valento92

@noaani Sure, could you elaborate on your preferences? GW2 was my personal favorite, what is yours?

Noaani

Of all games I have played, EQ2.

By a mile.

Each class in EQ2 has more depth to it than all of WoW's combat combined.

I have not played FFXIV (though it is probably on my list of games to try if I find some spare time before Ashes launches).

What I want to see is a game where mages and rogues feel different to play in combat. If rogues are fast attacking, where getting in an attack is more important than exactly which attack you get in, then mages should be slower casting, but where getting the exact right spell is key.

If I have a caster that is full of instant cast abilities, then I am essentially playing as a magical, ranged rogue.

Cold 0ne FTB

I really enjoy the combat mechanics in ESO and GW2. I know from what we have seen so far that AOC won't have the same place for flow as ESO but I am down to try something new or to get more of GW2 experience

Kat_N7

I've been playing GW2 since beta, and after playing WoW, SWTOR, FF14, Wildstar, Archeage, and LOTRO I would have to say my absolute favorite combat systems are GW2 and (was) Wildstar. The combat system in FF14 is the worst for me, because of the GCD and the incredibly slow combat.

Obviously I'm a little biased toward a game I genuinely have enjoyed for many years, but the fluidity and satisfaction I get from hitting things in GW2 feels good. It has a nice blend of target required abilities, but lots of abilities can be cast without a target because they rely on the direction you are facing or proximity. Wildstar kind of took that to an extreme with telegraph combat but I remember it being ridiculously fun in PvP because you were going to have a bad time if you couldn't maneuver your character. Between GW2 and Wildstar I simply love the freedom to MOVE AROUND when you want/need to move.

Valento92

noaani wrote: »

...
If I have a caster that is full of instant cast abilities, then I am essentially playing as a magical, ranged rogue.

Hmm I understand what you mean and I partially agree. If you can cast while moving you could get interrupted, though. I feel it's very hard to get it right but it's very satisfying gameplay. Elementalist for instance is the most squishy class, it can be good if played right but there are countless windows for melee classes to stun, dazze, or interrupt in any other way, plus the ele toughness/defense isn't high because of that.

I think that balance is key. Offering a pleasant gameplay while having balanced classes is for sure the most difficult thing to achieve when developing a game.

Xrael

noaani wrote: »

Valento92 wrote: »

As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?

I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.

How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?

I attempted to play GW2 again a while ago - I played it at launch for a few months and then stopped when there was nothing to do.

When I went back, I'd completely forgotten my account details but decided I'd just start up a new account.

Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.

I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.

So yeah, not that.

Feel like you're in the minority here. I think GW2 had great combat. It felt so satisfying to hit someone.

Also BDO has fantastic combat as well.

Noaani

Valento92 wrote: »

If you can cast while moving you could get interrupted, though.

Cast while standing still.

If the class is designed well enough, processing the variables going on should be enough to keep you occupied and entertained without needing to move around.

If you enjoy all that moving around type stuff, in my opinion, there are classes built around that style of play.

Cold 0ne FTB

I just hope that the action combat side is fast paced

Lincoln Hawk

I hate static combat, being able to move/kite is so important in pvp especially fighting outnumbered. Its the biggest anti zerg mechanic to make combat skillful and giving players freedom to outplay their opponents.
With collision, terrain will also be super useful.
I dont think every ability should be instant cast, darkfall combat for me will always be the best ( no class identity/diversity let it down though)
GW2 and ESO combat were both decent to me, so anything close to them or better and id be happy, I hate wow combat though.

Songcaller

noaani wrote: »

If you enjoy all that moving around type stuff, in my opinion, there are classes built around that style of play.

PvP will suck balls if some classes can move around and cast but some classes can't. Either all classes should be able to move and cast or no classes should be able to move and cast. I don't mind which option occurs, but, I imagine all classes will have static skills from what I've seen so far. Static skills are fine if all classes have static skills.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

If you enjoy all that moving around type stuff, in my opinion, there are classes built around that style of play.

PvP will suck balls if some classes can move around and cast but some classes can't. Either all classes should be able to move and cast or no classes should be able to move and cast. I don't mind which option occurs, but, I imagine all classes will have static skills from what I've seen so far. Static skills are fine if all classes have static skills.

I can imagine a build that is mostly static casting being hard to play in PvP, sure.

But I'm fine with that.

If PvE combat isn't enjoyable, the game isn't enjoyable.

GodsThesis

My favorite combat comes from Black Desert Online. The action combat feels and looks incredible, at least the classes I played. It's like a streetfighter game where I do raw inputs for all skills from movement to combat.

One combo in BDO is like this: e > (shift+lmb)> (Shift+x)> 4( hotbar)> space > f >(shift+rmb) > (d+rmb )> (a+rmb) > (shift+z) >(shift +f). This is about 2 seconds if I recall.

Whiskiz

Global cooldown is great as long as it's deep, dynamic and the output is consistent - like FFIX. Maintaining a consistently good, deep, dynamic rotation through a boss fight and its mechanics is a great feeling.

Instead of where 80% of your output is based around like 2 or 3 very long cooldown very short dps windows like WoW..

Skill spam like GW2 just makes a game feel like a cheap arcade game. Not very rewarding nor a good sense of accomplishment.

Tera/Action combat is also amazing. Especially as a tank in that game, needing to learn the bosses moves and watch the animations to know when to block and when to be using (aggro) skills and when to get ready to move where etc.

A deep, dynamic, cd-based action-combat system would be nirvana - unfortunately there only seems to be like 10 slots for skills on the UI though. Loving the rest of the game but i don't play things like GW2, ESO or Albion Online just because of the limited skill slots/combat depth and it being more spammy/arcadey because of it. Though the first 2 don't have the rest of a sandbox going for them, instead being themepark mmos.

BDO was terrible because it played like combos from a fighter game, that i personally thought was aids. I like to have all my available skills available on the screen to decide from there what to use when and make my own combos, not try to remember which combo of buttons to press after another combo of buttons just to make a specific single second attack happen, to then hold this button and press this one then that one for another single attack.

Songcaller

I can't speak for the PvE. The PvE looks real weak in what we've seen so far, so I ignore it and hope the placeholders will become more difficult. If PvE is a face roll then PvP will be easy to maintain. If PvE is difficult then PvP will be glorious for some more than others.

Even if there are static and non-static approaches to PvE it will be bad. I don't see how 75% Action Combat or 25% Action Combat will be static. I can see 75% Tab or 25% Tab being static. Static anything removes skill and just lets the NPC smack you and smack harder until you succeed.

I hope for many things in Raids, but, static tank and spank isn't one of those thing. If it is static verses non-static, then non-static will win 9 times out of 10 in PvP, irrespective of Hard Counters. If there are no directional attacks - one would hope you have to face your target or ridiculousness occurs, then static classes can be circled and whittled down, irrespective of Hard Counters.

Though they aren't balancing around 1vs1, 1vs1 will be steam roll for Non-static verses Static. Group situations would make this less simple but not impossible. You could AoE around your position, but, AoE might not be very viable for a 1vs1. Also, Melee often hits harder than an AoE in other games. I can't wait to test the systems and see the hybrid combat.

Valento92

Actually, since we're also talking about AI to some extent, what I've seen from NW as an alpha tester is quite interesting. AI react and try to adapt as the fight goes and I find that a good foundation for more complex open world behaviors. Sometimes the combat system, for PvE at least, may only be as good as the AI that tests against the systems in place.

GodsThesis

Whiskiz wrote: »

BDO was terrible because it played like combos from a fighter game, i personally thought was aids. I like to have all my available skills available on the screen to decide from there what to use when and make my own combos, not try to remember which combo of buttons to press after another combo of buttons to make a specific second attack happen etc.

Yeah, I agree man. I thought it felt awful and unfamiliar at first until I really practiced and worked the combos into muscle memory. it does take a while to learn and associate inputs with skills on the fly. Also grinding like this can be really aids too.

Leiloni

noaani wrote: »

Valento92 wrote: »

As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?

I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.

How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?

I attempted to play GW2 again a while ago - I played it at launch for a few months and then stopped when there was nothing to do.

When I went back, I'd completely forgotten my account details but decided I'd just start up a new account.

Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.

I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.

So yeah, not that.

Only the primary attack/auto attack works that way. None of the other skills do. I won't say GW2 is my favorite combat but it's definitely more complex and skill based past the leveling zones. Especially Elementalist which has far more skills and less defenses than most other classes.

To answer OP I'd say my preferred combat is just one that is well designed and fun to play. But more specifically I'd say for tab I prefer WoW mostly, and TERA was fun for action when I played it. In general I don't like combat that is too fast paced or too AoE based, although FFXIV took things too far - it was slow and boring IMO.

darthaden

My favorite combat system was BDO, my least favorite combat was BDO.......I'll explain what I mean by that. The fast paced button combo combat was innovative and kept me engaged. Sadly the actual combat simply involved pulling the maximum number of enemies possible and then 1-2 shotting down the entire pack. No mob presented any kind of unexpected challenge. On my witch there was no need to use a specific spell for a specific situation, it was simply whatever spell was off CD would be enough to one shot the entire pack.

I think mobs requiring individual tactics to take down and abilities to worry about is FAR more important then whatever the combat system is. The greatest combat system in the world is only fun for so long if your never required to think before you act in combat

Valento92

darthaden wrote: »

My favorite combat system was BDO, my least favorite combat was BDO.......I'll explain what I mean by that. The fast paced button combo combat was innovative and kept me engaged. Sadly the actual combat simply involved pulling the maximum number of enemies possible and then 1-2 shotting down the entire pack. No mob presented any kind of unexpected challenge. On my witch there was no need to use a specific spell for a specific situation, it was simply whatever spell was off CD would be enough to one shot the entire pack.

I think mobs requiring individual tactics to take down and abilities to worry about is FAR more important then whatever the combat system is. The greatest combat system in the world is only fun for so long if your never required to think before you act in combat

You spoke the wisest truth, props to you my dude.

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