What kind of combat dynamics do you guys prefer?

As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?

I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.

How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?

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Aardvark

Valento92 wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

...
If I have a caster that is full of instant cast abilities, then I am essentially playing as a magical, ranged rogue.

Hmm I understand what you mean and I partially agree. If you can cast while moving you could get interrupted, though. I feel it's very hard to get it right but it's very satisfying gameplay. Elementalist for instance is the most squishy class, it can be good if played right but there are countless windows for melee classes to stun, dazze, or interrupt in any other way, plus the ele toughness/defense isn't high because of that.

I think that balance is key. Offering a pleasant gameplay while having balanced classes is for sure the most difficult thing to achieve when developing a game.

since a rogue is a melee dps and caster is a ranged dps...so yeah a mage is a is a ranged rogue of sorts but then so is a ranger.

SuperFurrySquirrel

I love Vermintide 2 combat. Fast, fluid, can block and light/heavy attacks and combos. Something like that would be awesome

Nagash

SuperFurrySquirrel wrote: »

I love Vermintide 2 combat. Fast, fluid, can block and light/heavy attacks and combos. Something like that would be awesome

while I agree that Vermintide has great combat I think it wouldn't be possible for the servers to manage

Grimzar

GW2 and Tera have both very appealing combat for me.
I like freedom of movement, without animation lock (that spinning_jump_fireball_cast from 4k AoC gameplay? YUK!!!). Active block/dodge.

To be honest I love combat system from For Honor, but I imagine it wont be valid for big scale mmo. Last Oasis did something similar and it was surprisingly satisfying, but again probably wont fit in mixed action-tab-targeting plans for AoC.

I am fun of skill > gear, where you can outplay someone who is much stronger. But if he can't hit me then it doesn't matter if he can oneshot me :P

Valento92

I have a feeling that when it comes to combat fluidity there's more to caster classes than melee classes because while it sounds cool and RPGish to have a mage on a very long casting sitting still, it's not always that fun to have a mostly idle combat. On the other hand melee classes very very rarely have to even deal with being idle, granted it's typical to that archetype. Thinking in the system as a whole it takes more thought to come up with an ideal flow for both caster and melee gameplays than simply taking combat flow as it *usually* is.

MangoRinds

I've played many types of games, specifically MMOs. I have a feeling lots of people here have. That being said, out of EVERYTHING I have EVER played, Wildstar Online was hands down the best experience I've ever had with combat, as far as the flow of combat goes.

It had its flaws, could have felt meatier at times, but the actual core system was incredible and could have been built into whatever they needed. PvE was really incredible with the system as well, really rewarding.

*for those who haven't played it* Wildstar used a telegraph system, where all of your abilities put a light-up box/radius where it went. Yours lit up more than party members so you could differentiate your abilities. Enemies were red. Healing was green, etc. Sort of made everything skill-shots, but it didn't feel so hardcore where no one could enjoy it. It didn't feel so brain dead where there was nothing to master.

TheLegend27

BSkitty wrote: »

I've been playing GW2 since beta, and after playing WoW, SWTOR, FF14, Wildstar, Archeage, and LOTRO I would have to say my absolute favorite combat systems are GW2 and (was) Wildstar. The combat system in FF14 is the worst for me, because of the GCD and the incredibly slow combat.

Obviously I'm a little biased toward a game I genuinely have enjoyed for many years, but the fluidity and satisfaction I get from hitting things in GW2 feels good. It has a nice blend of target required abilities, but lots of abilities can be cast without a target because they rely on the direction you are facing or proximity. Wildstar kind of took that to an extreme with telegraph combat but I remember it being ridiculously fun in PvP because you were going to have a bad time if you couldn't maneuver your character. Between GW2 and Wildstar I simply love the freedom to MOVE AROUND when you want/need to move.

Agreed, Wildstar had perhaps the best action combat system I've experienced to date. GW2 is a strong 2nd but as someone mentioned before, I do end up feeling like I'm not doing much lol. WS was the only game I was truly immersed in the combat. Imo FF14's GCD system was EXTREMELY annoying to me, so I definitely don't like that.

Seems AoC is a bit of a Hybrid - perhaps closer to GW2; excited to see how it works.

TheLegend27

darthaden wrote: »

My favorite combat system was BDO, my least favorite combat was BDO.......I'll explain what I mean by that. The fast paced button combo combat was innovative and kept me engaged. Sadly the actual combat simply involved pulling the maximum number of enemies possible and then 1-2 shotting down the entire pack. No mob presented any kind of unexpected challenge. On my witch there was no need to use a specific spell for a specific situation, it was simply whatever spell was off CD would be enough to one shot the entire pack.

I think mobs requiring individual tactics to take down and abilities to worry about is FAR more important then whatever the combat system is. The greatest combat system in the world is only fun for so long if your never required to think before you act in combat

Mechanics > Fancy combat. Agreed.

Marcet

I want dumb mobs that statcheck you, sometimes dodge skills but it shouldnt be skill-based. Should be stat-based.

Genaro

I like more mechanical skill oriented combat systems. TERA has the best combat system from any other MMORPG I played, imo. Although the stagger feature can be quite annoying at the beginning, you get used to it once you learn how to handle it properly. Also, sometimes can be kinda difficult to hit the target with the aim as ranged/caster, but it feels good when you learn how to play with it. Aesthetically, the animations looks great, with fluidity and responsiveness, and the same goes to the skill effects.

GW2 is the 2nd best for me, with less punitive mechanical mistakes and more opening to risks, which is also great. With good looking animations and skill effects, the combat feels very responsive and dynamic, mixing very good the action combat with little bit of tab-targeting. My only problem with the combat is that sometimes your attacks/skills can feel a bit 'floaty', by not having the feeling that your attacks/skills have 'weight'. Other than that, nothing actually bothers me. The evasion system is a great addition to improve combat duration by making it decision rewarding, and it having just two charges. Not like some games that you can practically do a evasion move indefinitely *cough* BDO *cough*.

FFXIV is really inspired by the other Final Fantasy games, in which you almost feel like a turn-based but an tab-targeting 'actionish' combat at the same time. It's kinda weird. It has some good aspects, such as creating a perception of how is the combat going, by having a slower pace than most MMOs, and it's easier to get your combos right too. But, to my taste, it feels pretty slow.

Honorable mentions to DCUO (I kinda like it the fighting game inspired combat system), Wildstar (RIP in my heart) and Archeage (Tab-targeting combat but fast-paced with movements and combos, plus good looking!).

I'm really interested on how Intrepid will develop the combat to reach that mentioned '75% action/tab-targeting + 25% tab-targeting/action' kinda thing. I think that the main thing that they need to address is 'Does it feels responsive?'.

Timeraider

noaani wrote: »

Valento92 wrote: »

As in Global Cooldown (FFXIV)? Or more hybrid (GW2)? Or highly action-oriented (TERA)?

I really don't like global cooldown at all; my ideal combat dynamics are from GW2. Even caster classes can cast/fire spells while moving and it increases the feeling of freedom in a fight. It feels much better than having to sit and cast for all spells, unless there are more insta-cast spells? Obviously strong skills require you to stand still in order to be able to cast but it's mostly free to move, the dynamic is very satisfying.

How do you guys prefer? Where do your favorite combat dynamics stem from?

I attempted to play GW2 again a while ago - I played it at launch for a few months and then stopped when there was nothing to do.

When I went back, I'd completely forgotten my account details but decided I'd just start up a new account.

Started playing the game, and the way combat worked on my Elementalist (iirc), it felt like I was botting. I'd press one button and the spell would repeat cast until the mob died.

I honestly felt like I was cheating, it was that easy and boring. I quit for a second time fairly quickly.

So yeah, not that.

Hope you dont get in any of my PvE groups because if you have 25 skills and seem to be fine spamming the weakest one, something is off.
Must say that I mostly did PvP which ofcourse forces you to.. well. not do that :P

Aisa Aax

I don't care about gcd or not too much. What I hate is when encounters become over-complicated. Think of wow mythic raids - where you have a 5000 word long strategy guide, with over 10 different mechanics and abilities, adds that also have specific mechanics, and in worst case a gimmick-driven vehicle mechanic or something. All of this requiring instantaneous snap-reaction within a second or less.
In addition, mechanics are chance-driven and can overlap in a bad way.
On top of that, your class has numerous random procs as well as several burst mechanics on different timers that needs to be performed with very low margin of error.

Stuff like this frustrates me. Even though I am good at performing those things - I don't get entertainment or enjoyment out of this. Instead, it feels almost like a job, makes me tense and anxious.
I love pve for killing bosses. But the fact of the kill just isn't worth it for me lately in wow. I did enjoy a more measured and less random FFXIV raid and class mechanics though.

P.s. I hate pvp so I can't say much about it.
P.p.s. I know some people enjoy the things that I said I hate. It's a personal opinion.

Valento92

@Aisa Aax That's another interesting point. I can see how PvE content can turn into that and I agree on FFXIV take on difficulty tiers. I could only reach Extreme Trials and never did Savage but the game didn't segregate me from not doing said content, neither the playerbase (NA) did. I always did stuff on party finder, no premade and it went surprisingly smooth. Hope that this game reflects that as well.

Frostduck

I think mix of cooldown types would be best. I personally enjoy spamming skills very much, but introducing some limitations is great. For instance take Tera. Its just FUN to chain dashes and blinks. Makes traversing the world much more enjoyable.

but some types of skills sharing a cooldown can be good and useful balancing tool as well. Especially the proc based ones.

HiddenDaggerInn

Over the years I have found Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online , GW2 having some of the best combat and most enjoyable PvP. Normally the fights we're about what Steven is aiming for as far as time, unless you much higher Realm Rank in DAoC where with a lucky crit you could 1 shot a mage from stealth. Archeage PvP could have been fun but everyone just upgrades weapons and you get 1 shotted, most the time it's over before it starts.

Valento92

Sandman wrote: »

Over the years I have found Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online , GW2 having some of the best combat and most enjoyable PvP. Normally the fights we're about what Steven is aiming for as far as time, unless you much higher Realm Rank in DAoC where with a lucky crit you could 1 shot a mage from stealth. Archeage PvP could have been fun but everyone just upgrades weapons and you get 1 shotted, most the time it's over before it starts.

Oh yeah, way too fast. Have you seen GW2 dedicated PvPer matches? It's kinda fast at times but some matches are really, really good and entertaining to watch. I find slow combat to not be very entertaining but then there's class design to accommodate different flows I guess.

Skilledzero

Personally I would like action combat that sorta resembles dark souls in design, but with skills available on a resource that regenerates over time. Fluid movements are key and impactful damage output. The ability to stagger and be staggered I think is key to an engaging combat. Not to mention each encounter needs some depth of challenge. Take BDO for example, the moment you start off with zero knowledge of the game or any meaningful gear, you're able to aoe herds of wolves or whatever like it was nothing with numerous skills at your command.
I think a good mix of build up of learning the class, the skills you obtain and the way you maneuver your character. I also like the way dark souls has lockon/lockoff combat where if you're locked on to a target your character auto-pivots and tracks the way your enemy is moving, and when you need to lockoff and run around or even attack while locked off the enemy, you can do this as well.

ArkonnSwordMaster

Combat needs to be engaging and fun. Steven Sharif has said that it is one of the most important parts of the game and I agree. The days of watch your character stand still and "dodge" an attack should be gone! I agree with some of the earlier posters that GW2 and BDO have the best combat. There should be no auto-attack and it should take skill to kill an enemy. Yes gear should play a part as well but not being able to move just seems so old school. AOC's hybrid between action and tab targeting looks to be going in the right direction.
Hitting and enemy needs to have weight. If you swing a giant hammer and the enemy just sits there with a number popping up above its head... that makes for a very un-immersive experience. I believe that you also need to feel like a hero and a powerful one at that. I remember playing Final Fantasy 11 for a number of years and have a party of max level characters taking on some little onion creature just to get slaughtered because of one add! Not very heroic feeling...

Gemini808

Wildstar (RIP) to me had the best combat systems ever, I believe it falls into the combat vision they have ( both action and tab)

Kadoozy

I am a big fan of ESO's combat. Very action oriented and tabbing is optional/provides additional effects. Would prefer this game to be somewhat similar.

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