Loot distribution

When it comes to killing word bosses, If I am correct, the only way to get loot from it is to be in the party that tap boss first or party who did at least 60% of damage? So solo players who want to help, have no chance for any reward? I don't really like to beg for party invite, shouldn't there be some participation reward base on your healing/dps/agro contribution? Or maybe let all participants, who did threshold damage/healing, greed/need on items?

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Wandering Mist

I'll be honest, the whole loot distribution method that Intrepid are going for with Ashes is very weird to me, and I don't understand what the goal of it is.

Amel

The loot distribution is master looter how is that weird?

Wandering Mist

Amel wrote: »

The loot distribution is master looter how is that weird?

I mean the whole tagging 40%-60% system.

WMC51

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Amel wrote: »

The loot distribution is master looter how is that weird?

I mean the whole tagging 40%-60% system.

Some games have first tag gets the kill where a solo player can tag a world bid then drag it to a raid and get the kill. Summer games have most damage gets the kill wher you can be working on a kill and someone ganks it easier. Some games have last hit gets the kill. Lots of ganking.

I think theyre trying to balance that and the 60-40 is about right

Amel

The way i heard it will work is that if you have the tag you need to do less dmg, but if you dont get the tag you need to do more that 50% of the total hp to overcome the fact that you didnt tag. And yes that does mean that solo players wont be able to steal world bosses from entire guilds, which is fine.

George_Black

I think the loot will be icons of items on the ground that you either need to click to pick up, or spam /pickup button to pick up one by one all the nearby items.

In L2 it looked amazing seeing actual items on the ground, like swords and armor pieces of boxes of jewels or gold coins. Even items that players dropped from their inventory, or upon death, appeared to fall out of them and land on the group, as solid little items.

What happened in that game was that if your group didn't deal enough damage to the boss and you spammed /pickup you'd get an error message basically saying that this item isn't for you, peasant.
If one or more groups dealt similar damage, then everybody could loot. The stupid would spam /pickup button and end up picking whatever was nearby like mats or parts or whatever, the ones with fast reflexes would aim for the whole items and the gold.

Now, a group leader (9 man group at that game) could set the loot rules to: finders keepers, random and one other option which doesn't matter to the conversation. This meant that if I belong to a group, and the look is random, I might pick up a sword and that sword can end up to a friends inventory in the group. If it was finders keepers, whoever clicks on the look on the floor, or picks it up by using the /pickup button, would end up with it in their inventory.

Based on the many instances that the conversation went to raid looting, I think that we may have a similar system.

Noaani

Amel wrote: »

The way i heard it will work is that if you have the tag you need to do less dmg, but if you dont get the tag you need to do more that 50% of the total hp to overcome the fact that you didnt tag. And yes that does mean that solo players wont be able to steal world bosses from entire guilds, which is fine.

But they would be able to steal them from three competing guilds.

phdmonster

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'll be honest, the whole loot distribution method that Intrepid are going for with Ashes is very weird to me, and I don't understand what the goal of it is.

I agree, it's really fucking weird. I think they just want to make even boss fights a race and even more of a conflict. Your raid will besically be doing more than just fighting the boss. They will also be attacking the enemy raid, or defending against another group.

Technically, even if there are 2 raids that are friendly, only one gets the loot and the other one can still get bent over.

Grimzar

It looks like they want to force people to either join the group who is fighting the boss or kill the group.
If some solo/random players are willing to participate they have to do one of above or it's not even worth participating... That is a bit strange for me. Like some content will be taken by groups by default.

EDIT

George Black wrote: »

I think the loot will be icons of items on the ground that you either need to click to pick up, or spam /pickup button to pick up one by one all the nearby items.

no, they specify that there will be master looter, need over greed or potentially biding system. But only for group who have rights to loot. And the rights are given by tagging mob first and doing at least 40%dps or 60%pds if your group didn't tag it.

loot lying on the ground for everyone to pick would be a worst idea ever xD clown fiesta for ninja looters. Especially when you can't get it back by killing them

phdmonster wrote: »

Technically, even if there are 2 raids that are friendly, only one gets the loot and the other one can still get bent over.

yeah you either join their group if they let you, form a bigger group and outDPS them, kill them all (xD as solo player) or don't ever bother participate. That rly turn off outside cooperation

Amel

noaani wrote: »

Amel wrote: »

The way i heard it will work is that if you have the tag you need to do less dmg, but if you dont get the tag you need to do more that 50% of the total hp to overcome the fact that you didnt tag. And yes that does mean that solo players wont be able to steal world bosses from entire guilds, which is fine.

But they would be able to steal them from three competing guilds.

I mean, they could just kill the solo guy so he doesnt tag

WMC51

I think if its group content they want you to join a group to do it.

Grimzar

Or how about looted items will be dropped on death within 10min window after looting them?

Aardvark

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'll be honest, the whole loot distribution method that Intrepid are going for with Ashes is very weird to me, and I don't understand what the goal of it is.

As currently desribed it seems to force grouping and even then risk ninja looting where your only recourse would be to gain corruption. IMO the loot distribution needs a complete redo

Ryufu

I don't get the confusion on this. It is a world boss. You aren't going to be soloing a world boss.

The tagging system that is being discussed is if there are competing guilds. Obviously it is a competition or a guild war at that point. The system is there so it gives the guild who was late to arrive a chance. Also, there is no ninja looting happening with a guild master looter.

Nothing weird going on with the loot rules here.

Grimzar

Ryufu wrote: »

It is a world boss. You aren't going to be soloing a world boss.

well world boss was only as an example. The tag rule apply to every single mob in the game. I am not a fun of "mob reservation" by simply tagging them. It favors range classes with instant skills.

My question was if someone who isn't in group, just helping to kill the mob/boss should be rewarded for it? In my opinion YES. If someone took the time and participate, did x amount of damage (no talking about one swing, and afk for the rest of the fight) should have own loot.

For example if Boss drops 10 items. Group with loot rights have most of the loot. Rest of it will be randomly assigned among the top 10 participants. So it will be a group choice to get rid of other players to secure loot for them self. It wont get rid of either competition or cooperation aspect.

EDIT
or maybe I am wrong and we all have to fight each other to secure mobs/bosses spots

Khronus

Grimzar wrote: »

When it comes to killing word bosses, If I am correct, the only way to get loot from it is to be in the party that tap boss first or party who did at least 60% of damage? So solo players who want to help, have no chance for any reward? I don't really like to beg for party invite, shouldn't there be some participation reward base on your healing/dps/agro contribution? Or maybe let all participants, who did threshold damage/healing, greed/need on items?

I don't want to sound mean but I am going to call you out on some items here for the sake of positive discussion.

1 - Soloing a world boss or coming to help with a world boss doesn't make sense to me. Some bosses may have mechanics that will actually HURT the raid group by having extra players there (spreading poisons, scaling boss stats to nearby player count, causing AoE where it shouldn't be, etc.).

2 - The purpose of the world bosses is for large formed raid groups. I agree, don't beg for a party. What you should be doing is joining a guild that will organize these events so that you don't have to beg for anything. LFG mechanics in MMOS reduce the overall societal interaction aspect and to me LFG mechanics ruin entire games (look at WOW.....you don't even have to talk to people to raid).

3 - Participation points, trophies, items, anything is just a really really garbage mechanic. It directly promotes the opposite of being social with others. I will be organizing events like this and actively recruiting during alpha/beta. If you have any questions on how I run my guild, I would be happy to answer. add me on Discord (Khronus#4299) and never have to beg anyone for anything : )

Grimzar

@KHRONUS yeah you have valid points, but as I wrote above, word boss was an example only. I am concern about whole tagging mobs for yourself idea.
I just trying to figure it out if AoC is solo player friendly, and it looks like is opposite. Which is fine, but I probably wont fit in any guild since my gaming time is limited by real word :P

Aardvark

What he is wanting is like what rift did where the better you do the more likely you would get one of the drops regulardless of grouping or how well your group did. It stacked everyone on their own participation and what they put twoard the goal. With this system they are decribing for AoC the top 10 contributors could all get nothing just because they were in a group of 20 and another group was in a group of 40 and with 2x the players only managed slightly more than the 20 man group. It rewards mass numbers over ability. Basically world boss participation trophies as long as you happen to be in the largest group

Khronus

@Grimzar You would 100% fit into mine! I am growing a community of players. I don't plan on removing people with limited real life schedules. We're all here to enjoy the hell out of this game! I am even planning on putting a health section on my discord in order to help people realize that this game is indeed a game and RL matters more ultimately haha. Middle aged goals ftw.

@Aardvark Yeah I remember that system vaguely from rift. It makes sense but this direction forces more community interaction which I love. I can see some sort of coin system working for participation that can accumulate over time to buy skins/cosmetics. That might be cool.

RahkstarRPG

Aardvark wrote: »

What he is wanting is like what rift did where the better you do the more likely you would get one of the drops regulardless of grouping or how well your group did. It stacked everyone on their own participation and what they put twoard the goal. With this system they are decribing for AoC the top 10 contributors could all get nothing just because they were in a group of 20 and another group was in a group of 40 and with 2x the players only managed slightly more than the 20 man group. It rewards mass numbers over ability. Basically world boss participation trophies as long as you happen to be in the largest group

That was not how loot worked when Rift started.

Also, I don't know how to can call it a "participation trophy" when they're the group that killed the mob in the end. Giving stuff to the other people would be the real participation trophy. Numbers matter.

Personal loot just *does not work* with an MMO like this, period.

Hell, WoW didn't have personal loot when it started either. Their loot system was almost exactly the same as this except first to hit the mob got the tag, period. This is just that, plus some ability to steal kills. Better than Everquest which was just whoever did more than 50% of the damage got the loot, period.

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