Artisan Classes: Risk vs. Effort vs. Reward

Is the effort involved in Gathering, Processing and Crafting equal? If so would we see roughly equal profit between each of them, for example, in a perfect Verra...

Gatherer sells 100 units for 100G
Processor sells that 100G worth of units for 200G (once processed)
Crafter sells that 200G worth of units for 300G

Gatherer runs the risk of transporting raw materials.
Do those that process also run the risk transporting their goods to a crafter?
And what risk does a crafter have? Their Boots/Mug table/Earrings not selling?

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Noaani

Behague wrote: »

Is the effort involved in Gathering, Processing and Crafting equal? If so would we see roughly equal profit between each of them, for example, in a perfect Verra...

Gatherer sells 100 units for 100G
Processor sells that 100G worth of units for 200G (once processed)
Crafter sells that 200G worth of units for 300G

Gatherer runs the risk of transporting raw materials.
Do those that process also run the risk transporting their goods to a crafter?
And what risk does a crafter have? Their Boots/Mug table/Earrings not selling?

That isn't equal.

The processor gains 1000g for every 1000g they invest.

The crafter only gains 500g for every 1000g they invest.

Jubilum

The gather takes the risk of venturing into a world with open world/non-consensual pvp. They will be murdered as soon as they bend over to pick a pretty flower. I would specialize in gathering if it wasn't for this unthinkable risk. Instead, I will sit in my nice comfy freehold with my high speed smelter, and offer top dollar to those dumb/brave enough to venture out into the dreaded open world.

I'm sure there will be many more processors than gathers. They will be able to choose the highest bidder...if successful.

Noaani

jubilum wrote: »

I'm sure there will be many more processors than gathers.

I doubt that.

Almost all mains will be gatherers, and almost all crafting alts will be, well, crafters.

Processors will be the hard to find people - which means you stand to make good money as a processor.

Jubilum

As I sit here on the fence trying to decide to commit to playing this game or not. I'm trying to figure out ways to avoid non-consensual pvp. And, gathering is an invitation for this type of activity, and so a big NO. Which is a shame since gathering has always been a huge part of my game play in other mmo's I've played. I always found it to be relaxing and productive. I have also always had grafting alt's, but I always found it to be kind of a pain in the ass. I don't recall any other mmo with processing as a primary profession. It has usually been combined with crafting.

Back to processing. It appears to be little risk with acceptable rewards, enough to scratch out a living. The only risk is loosing your freehold. That, I'm looking forward to defending till my last breath or until my sword breaks.

Noaani

jubilum wrote: »

As I sit here on the fence trying to decide to commit to playing this game or not. I'm trying to figure out ways to avoid non-consensual pvp.

Best way to do this is to not fight back, your attacker is likely to just stop attacking to avoid getting corruption.

If they do kill you, at least you know their penalty will be more severe than yours. Go back to the same area and carry on doing what you were doing - that player isn't going to bother you again.

unknown

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GodsThesis

Well, then the counter-question is, why should they even be equally profitable? Won't players normally find what's the most profitable to them given their playstyle, even if there's a greater risk? Just because you suggest they should equally profitable, doesn't mean that you made a fair system. Paying a lumberer the same as you would for an artisan that handcrafts a wooden table would be unfair to the artisan's skill and the finished product. The shirts you have cost more than the raw cotton or material used to make it.

Just because there's a greater assumed risk for gatherers, there will most likely be far more gatherers than the other professions, because as people explore the game in the beginning and build up their node/community, naturally, they will need a lot of raw materials. By extension then it would be much more convenient to have less, but reliable processors/crafters. Anyone can go out in the world and gather sure you may die, but just respawn; it's a game.

In real life, you can add further pay-raise for certain risky jobs because there's a chance of dying (can't respawn IRL), far fewer people willing to do said job, potentially sued, insurance, specialized skill, etc.

Ingame it's just gathering, anyone can do it. It doesn't matter if someone dies or not for it. One way or another the resource will make its way to a processor/crafter, even if it's over someone's dead body.

jubilum wrote: »

As I sit here on the fence trying to decide to commit to playing this game or not. I'm trying to figure out ways to avoid non-consensual pvp.... Back to processing. It appears to be little risk with acceptable rewards, enough to scratch out a living. The only risk is loosing your freehold. That, I'm looking forward to defending till my last breath or until my sword breaks.

I do not think that all gatherers will be killed on site, or repeatedly killed. That quite a stretch, more akin to paranoia. Also if you are willing to defend your freehold to your death, why would you not defend yourself for the resource? Your resources would be in your freehold anyways.

Noaani

GodsThesis wrote: »

Well, then the counter-question is, why should they even be equally profitable?

I'll go you one further, what even IS equally profitable in this sense?

Is it profit based on time spent? Profit based on resoures invested? profit based on costimers served?

phdmonster

From what i understand players will determine prices for resources, materials, processed goods and everything else basically when trading another player.

If you think someone is going to swindle themselves purposefully, you are going to be disappointed. People are going to try and sell everything they can for as much money as they can. If they see someone making bank selling cheaper, they will correct their prices.

Since all professions will be needed for something, the only thing Intrepid needs to do is make all professions relevant in enough places that they are desired or their products are desired and thus they are profitable.

BlackBrony

Price is decided by the players, there's no equality at all.

If everyone is selling X mat, price will drop because there's too much offer. Also we might have cases where gatherers are just that, and sell their mats to traders who are willing to risk moving their new acquired goods through the caravan system.

You might be a PvE gatherer and just sell to trader to avoid further PvP in caravan system, where you have no way of avoiding it, while gathering allows you to not fight back and get the player corrupted, which I find stupid. I'd rather lose less resources, and if I find that player is just too good, then next time I encounter it, I can die as innocent.

Malc

As BlackBrony says, the economy will be player driven which inevitably means players will decide which is most profitable. It's likely to be based on the effort and rarity involved in each section.

superhero6785

Behague wrote: »

Is the effort involved in Gathering, Processing and Crafting equal? If so would we see roughly equal profit between each of them, for example, in a perfect Verra...

Gatherer sells 100 units for 100G
Processor sells that 100G worth of units for 200G (once processed)
Crafter sells that 200G worth of units for 300G

Gatherer runs the risk of transporting raw materials.
Do those that process also run the risk transporting their goods to a crafter?
And what risk does a crafter have? Their Boots/Mug table/Earrings not selling?

"A perfect Verra" where each person makes the exact same amount? You must be one of these new age socialist types

You will make whatever the in-game-market-economy will determine. If your server happens to be full of grief'ers who don't care about corruption, then gathering could be a very lucrative industry. Big PvE server where nobody really wants to participate in Caravans? Then Processing and Trading may lead to bigger premiums on goods sold in remote Nodes. The most profitable professions are going to be different on every server and region depending on which nodes advance near which resources, and what the players of that server prefer to do most, leaving the others to be highly sought after. Even IF Intrepid managed to make all professions require "equal effort/risk", there's no way to ensure perfect parity of players wanting to participate in each of the professions. This will always lead to one being more rewarding than another, just like the real world

Kneczhevo

I see processers and crafters having a more difficult risk vs reward than gatherers.
Chances are, they will have to maintain a node (via guild, citizenship, etc.) and/or a freehold. These are all susceptible to pvp. Loose your node, loose your crafting station.
You need those nuts and bolts? You need a caravan. If you have your own caravan, possible PvP. If you hire a caravan, items might get lost from a caravan raid, hence PvP consequences for that player, tho not directly.
So, I really see a decent risk versus reward for all the crafters involved.
On another note. If I am gathering, and I see one of those foreign gold farmers/botters in my area, damn right I am going to murder them. And I think my group (hint, hint) will join me. Nice option, imo.

Mork

welcome to the real world

Nitpick

Behague wrote: »

Is the effort involved in Gathering, Processing and Crafting equal? If so would we see roughly equal profit between each of them, for example, in a perfect Verra...

Gatherer sells 100 units for 100G
Processor sells that 100G worth of units for 200G (once processed)
Crafter sells that 200G worth of units for 300G

Gatherer runs the risk of transporting raw materials.
Do those that process also run the risk transporting their goods to a crafter?
And what risk does a crafter have? Their Boots/Mug table/Earrings not selling?

Don't forget about the distance making the price skyrocket. Imagine you are a gatherer outside of (the other side of map, for example) the snowy area, and a guild in the snowy area needs A LOT of certain type of flowers that don't grow in the vicinity of their node. So they make a request and (probably) send a messenger, looking for a gatherer, like you. (No fast travel or auction houses, besides the ones at certain types of nodes). So, the messenger finds you, asks you for the price, and you, already knowing that the price can go WAY higher, given the distance needed to travel, with a caravan even, make the price more than double. Because they are a huge guild and they need the materials for whatever reason, the messenger is put in a tight spot. Either he accepts and helps you deliver, protecting the caravan, or he refuses and risks that you will tell enemy guilds about their request, for a price, so they can prepare for someone else transporting goods with caravans.

This answers questions on the other two aspects. If you got more of the materials, you can process more of them and craft more items from them. Basically, on every server, every gatherable, every processed material and every item, will have a COMPLETELY different price, because there is still the node system you have to take into account.

If you think you can make a fair system with the example you used, in this game, I think we are both waiting for a different game release xD #NoOffense xD

Naxxaz

Behague wrote: »

Is the effort involved in Gathering, Processing and Crafting equal? If so would we see roughly equal profit between each of them, for example, in a perfect Verra...

Gatherer sells 100 units for 100G
Processor sells that 100G worth of units for 200G (once processed)
Crafter sells that 200G worth of units for 300G

Gatherer runs the risk of transporting raw materials.
Do those that process also run the risk transporting their goods to a crafter?
And what risk does a crafter have? Their Boots/Mug table/Earrings not selling?

We wont know until supply and demand kicks in. If enough people don't think Gatherer is worth it, then you can bet your ass it will be! xD

Caeryl

Gatherers are going to be mostly mains as the best stuff will be contested, meaning they'll need to be decked out in strong gear, venturing in with their raids to harvest rare mats off bosses. Gatherers are likely to be the ones fighting you over a resource cluster. Processors will probably also want to be of higher level in order to defend their caravans.

Crafters are the ones who can reasonably sit pretty in a large node or their freehold. The biggest challenge for them is acquiring recipes, but since its a free-trading system, as long as they have buddies who want to make use of their Crafting level, they'll find recipes coming into their hands.

Behague

GodsThesis wrote: »

Well, then the counter-question is, why should they even be equally profitable?

They shouldn't, as the gatherer with their "walking piñatas" seem to be doing the heavy lifting. Those doing the processing seem to have it easy.

Looking forward to the chaos of it all. And even hearing how it is happening on other servers.

Nitpick wrote: »

If you think you can make a fair system with the example you used, in this game, I think we are both waiting for a different game release xD #NoOffense xD

Haha, none taken, I just want to hear what people think, and its all great feedback 👍

This system in itself is something I've not come across before in a game and I like how it forces co-operation. I was gathering and crafting all by my lonesome in a previous game and buying what I couldn't make off a Trade network. It was not very social for an MMO.

Yuyukoyay

Gatherers will be the ones setting the material prices while crafters will be setting the finished product prices. I imagine processors will either be alts or just have the least control over the market. It Depends how reasonable processors want to be. Main processors will be completely circumvented through alts if they are too greedy.

2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff

jubilum wrote: »

As I sit here on the fence trying to decide to commit to playing this game or not. I'm trying to figure out ways to avoid non-consensual pvp. And, gathering is an invitation for this type of activity, and so a big NO. Which is a shame since gathering has always been a huge part of my game play in other mmo's I've played. I always found it to be relaxing and productive. I have also always had grafting alt's, but I always found it to be kind of a pain in the ass. I don't recall any other mmo with processing as a primary profession. It has usually been combined with crafting.

Back to processing. It appears to be little risk with acceptable rewards, enough to scratch out a living. The only risk is loosing your freehold. That, I'm looking forward to defending till my last breath or until my sword breaks.

I coulda sworn I heard someone talk about peace zones, peace zones will be super important, I'm a PvP guy but when I want to escape and pick flowers, I want to escape and pick flowers and recharge my zen. I really hope the ability to peacefully be out in the games nature with all the sounds and sights will be possible for pve people, it'd be a shame to force people into a city instead.

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