Will there be item enchanting similar to Lineage 2?

Anyone know if you'll be able to enchant your gear in a similar manner to L2, where it increases your Damage/Defence depending on weapon/armor each time you enchant it, with the possibility of destroying your gear?

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Caeryl

Aardvark wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

I’d rather not see overenchanted items. If you want ten enchants, you’d best be at a point where you can easily farm for those mats when your gear breaks from unsuccessful overenchanting.

The whole point is so people don’t have tons of enchants on their gear with no risk. I’m sure the risk will be reduced with levels into Enchanting, but it should always be present in some way

All that does it make another time sink. Time sinks in general are not fun.

It’s not a time sink if you don’t insist on having too many enchantments. The risk must be comparable to the reward. When you add two or three enchants to an item your risk will not be absurdly high.

When you decide you must have ten enchantments, you have opted into a high risk scenario of your own accord. I’m certain it will never be necessary to have that many on a single item to be effective at a role. If you wanna be in the top .0001% then you can spend that time regrinding to go overboard on your gear. For everyone else, it’s entirely unnecessary.

Aardvark

Caeryl wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

I’d rather not see overenchanted items. If you want ten enchants, you’d best be at a point where you can easily farm for those mats when your gear breaks from unsuccessful overenchanting.

The whole point is so people don’t have tons of enchants on their gear with no risk. I’m sure the risk will be reduced with levels into Enchanting, but it should always be present in some way

All that does it make another time sink. Time sinks in general are not fun.

It’s not a time sink if you don’t insist on having too many enchantments. The risk must be comparable to the reward. When you add two or three enchants to an item your risk will not be absurdly high.

When you decide you must have ten enchantments, you have opted into a high risk scenario of your own accord. I’m certain it will never be necessary to have that many on a single item to be effective at a role. If you wanna be in the top .0001% then you can spend that time regrinding to go overboard on your gear. For everyone else, it’s entirely unnecessary.

Sounds like you would love the Korean MMOs that many hate...infinte level with a soft cap is the same nonsence and is very unpopular in the US

Peon501

Aardvark wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

I’d rather not see overenchanted items. If you want ten enchants, you’d best be at a point where you can easily farm for those mats when your gear breaks from unsuccessful overenchanting.

The whole point is so people don’t have tons of enchants on their gear with no risk. I’m sure the risk will be reduced with levels into Enchanting, but it should always be present in some way

All that does it make another time sink. Time sinks in general are not fun.

It’s not a time sink if you don’t insist on having too many enchantments. The risk must be comparable to the reward. When you add two or three enchants to an item your risk will not be absurdly high.

When you decide you must have ten enchantments, you have opted into a high risk scenario of your own accord. I’m certain it will never be necessary to have that many on a single item to be effective at a role. If you wanna be in the top .0001% then you can spend that time regrinding to go overboard on your gear. For everyone else, it’s entirely unnecessary.

Sounds like you would love the Korean MMOs that many hate...infinte level with a soft cap is the same nonsence and is very unpopular in the US

Yea, that would be bs.
I would go with 1 enchant system per item.

Caeryl

Aardvark wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

I’d rather not see overenchanted items. If you want ten enchants, you’d best be at a point where you can easily farm for those mats when your gear breaks from unsuccessful overenchanting.

The whole point is so people don’t have tons of enchants on their gear with no risk. I’m sure the risk will be reduced with levels into Enchanting, but it should always be present in some way

All that does it make another time sink. Time sinks in general are not fun.

It’s not a time sink if you don’t insist on having too many enchantments. The risk must be comparable to the reward. When you add two or three enchants to an item your risk will not be absurdly high.

When you decide you must have ten enchantments, you have opted into a high risk scenario of your own accord. I’m certain it will never be necessary to have that many on a single item to be effective at a role. If you wanna be in the top .0001% then you can spend that time regrinding to go overboard on your gear. For everyone else, it’s entirely unnecessary.

Sounds like you would love the Korean MMOs that many hate...infinte level with a soft cap is the same nonsence and is very unpopular in the US

I’m not into grind in order to be effective

But Ashes isn’t going to ever going to require ten enchants on an item to be effective, so your snark is unwarranted.

RahkstarRPG

I find it very odd that the man who ragequit Archeage is going to employ the same exact enchanting system they used...

Noaani

RahkstarRPG wrote: »

I find it very odd that the man who ragequit Archeage is going to employ the same exact enchanting system they used...

The enchanting system was never a thing I had an issue with in Archeage. The tuning of it was a problem, as were peoples expectations of where they should enchant their gear to, but the system itself was great.

HazardNumberSeven

noaani wrote: »

RahkstarRPG wrote: »

I find it very odd that the man who ragequit Archeage is going to employ the same exact enchanting system they used...

The enchanting system was never a thing I had an issue with in Archeage. The tuning of it was a problem, as were peoples expectations of where they should enchant their gear to, but the system itself was great.

That and the fact that p2w fed into the system, is what bothered me.

Honestly if it was tuned differently and there was no cash-shop, the enchanting itself is something I liked about ArcheAge. The risk vs reward was fun... (again, if there wasn't a p2w element)

Leiloni

Steven commented on this system yesterday in the TimtheTatman inverview (around 16:20, video below).

I'm concerned that it's going to be like other Korean MMO's (BDO being the most recent but just one in a long line of games) where you have to go out of your way to grind for it because nobody will just have the mats from normal play. Especially with the unpredictable element of luck factored in, so it's not really a gold sink if you don't even have gold to waste on it to begin with. Aside from the gold sink argument, Korean MMO's generally add these systems to drive people to the cash shop to buy items to make it easier to enchant, but this game won't have that, so why then still have the enchant system?

This game has all this cool content and a player driven world, but much could be wasted if we're just grinding to get gear so we can finally have fun much of the time, and then grinding to maintain said gear (via the item decay and repair systems).

Not to mention the community as it always does will set a high bar for what's needed to be competitive, so everyone will have to enter the frustrating RNG side of the enchanting. That alone will cause a lot of people to question whether they want to even play the game to deal with that (especially the hardcores that are going to want to be the best of the best). Let's remember we're not the same gamers we were 10-15 years ago. People optimized the fun out of WoW Classic and it was not at all like Vanilla was. What makes you think people aren't going to make the enchanting system already even more terrible than it already is?

I've also read some people are concerned that it will encourage people to illegally buy gold to get around the problem which is another valid point we should be worried about. Others have pointed out the potential for it to increase the disparity between hardcore and casual players (considering the aging demographic for an MMO like this, this could also be an issue and you don't want to drive away the casuals).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8UmFQGDnI4&feature=youtu.be&t=980

WMC51

Never played lineage 2 but how does that system compare to the realm on line if anyone here is that old? I remember perm enchanting swords with each extra having an increased chance to destroy it.

25 years I still remember that and it having instanced player housing.

Tarvald

I would say the number one issue with this form of enchanting is that it just simply isn't fun. Firstly it creates unnecessary overly tuned Meta's which dull the fun out of late game experiences for all but the 1% of the 1%, secondly this system becomes such a time-sink that not only does it have little reward for the sheer amount of risk, but it turns the game into simply logging on to enchant, run dailies for mats and log off. Third it destroys repeatability for Western players, once a Western player has this gear, they will not want to make a new toon because of the level of frustration. Lastly this system always bleeds into other areas of gameplay, where the Devs are hardpressed to tune their games around such systems, further exasperating the above, but also taking some of the allure of playing the game your way. When the Meta becomes to play a certain race, enchant 100x wearing specific gear with the 5 most specific classes it just ruins the game.

A game like AoC which requires an openly non-meta system that has to thrive on mass casuals running the foundations of nodes while more Elite players command territory, destroying 90% of your playerbase will only spell complete doom and failure for a territory based MMORPG sandbox game.

Leiloni

WMC51 wrote: »

Never played lineage 2 but how does that system compare to the realm on line if anyone here is that old? I remember perm enchanting swords with each extra having an increased chance to destroy it.

25 years I still remember that and it having instanced player housing.

Haven't played Realm Online but we don't have such detailed information on the system yet to know the answer to that. Hopefully once Alpha 1 starts they'll be able to play with the system and let us all know how it works.

Samson1

It's a risk vs. reward system. The entire game is based on risk vs. reward. If you take the risk with enchanting... you may be rewarded. Not everyone will be treated the same (or as lucky). Not everyone will get a reward just for participating.

I like the vision that Steven and the AoC devs have for this game.

MrScrewtape

After playing Black Desert Online and seeing how horrible RNG item enchanting can be, this feature alone may put me off.

I've fine with risk vs reward, but RNG (pure luck of the dice / gambling) isn't fun and is just a huge / massive rage generator.

The amount of rage and people leaving BDO due to the risk/reward enchanting system in BDO, the devs finally added a failsafe system where if you pay a bunch of gold, you can prevent downgrading / item destruction. And of course the items needed for this are in the cash shop.

RNG is 100% gambling, and that isn't a good risk vs reward type system. Please please please please find another way.

Samson1

Before people start demanding change... we need to see the system in action first.

MrScrewtape

Samson wrote: »

Before people start demanding change... we need to see the system in action first.

You're right that it is probably too early to make assumptions, but the earlier they get feedback that RNG/Gambling for equipment progress is a HUGE turnoff for a lot of people, the better.

I watched people put in little effort and get SUPER lucky enchanting and effectively dominated in PvP for months. While others had HORRIBLE luck and spent BILLIONs (big money) and still never achieved the same enchantment level and were always behind in gear.

I'm 100% for risk vs reward, but RNG for character power progression is a very dangerous system and will generate a lot of rage quits.

Equipment = Character power
Leveling up = Character power

How would you feel that depending on how strong of monsters you fought (high risk) during your XP grind you would be granted higher stats at level up than if you played it safe hunting? Everyone would be PISSED! You could recover the lost potential power by taking more risks later, but RNG could still screw you for months. (in this example all players equal out at max level, but along the way, thanks to RNG you may be weaker than your peers if you took less risks and RNG procs screwed you)

Samson1

screwtape wrote: »

Samson wrote: »

Before people start demanding change... we need to see the system in action first.

You're right that it is probably too early to make assumptions, but the earlier they get feedback that RNG/Gambling for equipment progress is a HUGE turnoff for a lot of people, the better.

I watched people put in little effort and get SUPER lucky enchanting and effectively dominated in PvP for months. While others had HORRIBLE luck and spent BILLIONs (big money) and still never achieved the same enchantment level and were always behind in gear.

I'm 100% for risk vs reward, but RNG for character power progression is a very dangerous system and will generate a lot of rage quits.

Equipment = Character power
Leveling up = Character power

How would you feel that depending on how strong of monsters you fought (high risk) during your XP grind you would be granted higher stats at level up than if you played it safe hunting? Everyone would be PISSED! You could recover the lost potential power by taking more risks later, but RNG could still screw you for months. (in this example all players equal out at max level, but along the way, thanks to RNG you may be weaker than your peers if you took less risks and RNG procs screwed you)

Oh yes, I'm all for people presenting their opinions and feedback. Feedback is awesome.

I just think we need to be careful on demanding change on systems we have not tested/seen as of yet. The devs have a vision for this game, and I think it's important that they have the opportunity to show us their vision before we go demanding that it be changed.

BlackBrony

You are aware that your weapons will be destroyed? You will always need mats, that's why enchanting makes sense.
A +5 sword would be extremely valuable, compared to a +1.

I believe it makes sense. No one is forcing you to risk it. You can have that +1 sword and leave it at that.

Now, if you're greedy and want it +5, commit to the chance of it being destroyed.

SepiDN

Well this again feels like a system straight out of L2 so currently as I understood it works like this:

Enchanting your weapon is done by scrolls
+1 - +3 is a safe zone
anything past +3 will have a 66.7% chance of success. If you fail the weapon will be destroyed and you will be left with some of the crafting materials (30%?). in l2 you got crystals but that's a different system that I'v not seen a referrance to in this game.

It's never been a mandatory to OE gear even in the hardcore world of L2 but it's just shows who has actually sinked time to the game. And let's be honest L2 had maximum enchant of +16 and the chance for that is 0.13% so the most you would normally see is +8-10 which is around 4.5% chance. 90% of the player base had +3. How much would +3 and 8 effect then? +8 or +3 could either win the fight but the +8 would win more if you had 100 fights.

I do not like the "do it once have it for life" kinda enchant system that wow has and i'm not the biggest fan of l2 enchant system even tho it gives nice adrenaline rush because it's so damn punishing. People literally farmed weapons for weeks or months and wanted an upgrade. went for +4 and that weapon was gone. Usually at that point people quit.

To be honest I'm not sure what would be good but neither of these systems are that good in my opinion.
Im fine with either but I still feel "do it once and be done with it" is just pointless and doesn't really add anything to the game. At the end everyone just has the exact same stuff. I was never excited about enchants in wow as it felt like an aftertaught timesink. In l2 it felt like enourmous timesink but at least it didn't come stale and you didn't need to participate in it if u didn't want to.

Jexz

tugowar wrote: »

Many of the systems could be considered "outdated." There is a reason that AOC is swinging back to those outdated systems though. They summarize that as Risk vs Reward.

Many of these systems will also lead to more social interactions, as well as putting a higher premium on top tier enchanters.

Someone may risk 10X as much as someone else and still not get it.
Now they fight on the battle field and the guy who got lucky wins every time with little to no risk while the guy who failed 10X is at greater risk of dieing.

Now you can say well just save up and buy it. Go look at the BDO market place there are no pen ogre rings on the market. If there was one up on the market its undervalued at 70 bil that is roughly 466 hours of grinding as an honest player for one piece of gear that is not even BiS any more. That honest player is put up against people who Bot, Exploit , Hack RMT and people who pay others to play their account to get these items

Real risk vs reward would have the best items make you super powerful but you can drop them if you die.
The player becomes the raid boss. A fight that becomes exciting for Both the underdog and the wielder. As well as make people second guess RMTing for such items.

I'm not 100% against the fail on enchant system. It all depends on the power creep disparity and the % chances. BDO is too extreme for my liking. When you read people complaining about this system this was their experience with it.

Leiloni

Jexz wrote: »

tugowar wrote: »

Many of the systems could be considered "outdated." There is a reason that AOC is swinging back to those outdated systems though. They summarize that as Risk vs Reward.

Many of these systems will also lead to more social interactions, as well as putting a higher premium on top tier enchanters.

Someone may risk 10X as much as someone else and still not get it.
Now they fight on the battle field and the guy who got lucky wins every time with little to no risk while the guy who failed 10X is at greater risk of dieing.

Now you can say well just save up and buy it. Go look at the BDO market place there are no pen ogre rings on the market. If there was one up on the market its undervalued at 70 bil that is roughly 466 hours of grinding as an honest player for one piece of gear that is not even BiS any more. That honest player is put up against people who Bot, Exploit , Hack RMT and people who pay others to play their account to get these items

Real risk vs reward would have the best items make you super powerful but you can drop them if you die.
The player becomes the raid boss. A fight that becomes exciting for Both the underdog and the wielder. As well as make people second guess RMTing for such items.

I'm not 100% against the fail on enchant system. It all depends on the power creep disparity and the % chances. BDO is too extreme for my liking. When you read people complaining about this system this was their experience with it.

I've played a lot of games with systems like this and they all have the same problems. And in every game the players hated it and just dealt with it because the rest of the game was good, but inevitably people always burn out and quit, or get too pissed with constant gear grind or failure and quit. It's never something that can work.

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