[Concern] Potential Flaw in the Corruption System

Hello! Just wanted to state a concern I have regarding the corruption system.

From what I understand on the corruption system, a player who deliberately kills one or several non-combatant players is flagged as a “combatant” and eventually a “corrupt” player.

However, if a very rare resource were to appear in my node, I wouldn’t want people from competing nodes taking that resource, which could potentially jump start their node into a metropolis. I would want to take this rare resource for my node. If a player from a competing node is traveling through my node and is harvesting/mining, its only natural my guild and I would want to ward the players away for taking resources from my node that benefit their node. If my friend and I were to kill these players from another node who are taking resources from my node, would we be flagged as a combatant and eventually corrupted?

I don’t see a way where I can ward players from stealing our nodes resources from players from competing nodes without getting corrupted.

Just my suggestion but hopefully you have a better solution:

I think players should be flagged as combatants the second they enter a node thats not their own or a node they don’t have a alliance or guild that owns the node they’ve entered. Or additionally attack any players they don’t have an alliance with.

Without a system like this I don’t see how players can ward players from other nodes without getting corrupt.

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Comments

Yuyukoyay

The system already addresses this though. You lose more resources by not fighting back, so people are going to fight back to reduce this naturally in most cases. Corruption is really just there to keep griefers and pkers in check. I think you shouldn't be able to get resources from players a lot lower level than you though.

Beowulf Anvilbane

Roko wrote: »

caravans are and entirely different scenario.

You are talking about you or anyone being able to prevent someone else from gathering a resource out in the world without incurring any corruption risk in doing so. And I'm saying I disagree

A caravan is another system entirely which enables someone to steal already gathered resources. And personally I love the caravan system as described as well.

I guess I lost my point in all the discussions I had today, so apologies if Im not making sense.

The point of the post was to inform the devs that there is a problem with corruption system that allows legitimate competitive actions, such as defending your valuable resources from being taken by rival players, which can give them the advantage over you, which I used as an example.

My solution was just a suggestion that solved the problem I had in mind. Not a all problem solving solution

Roko

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

The point of the post was to inform that there is a problem with corruption system that allows legitimate competitive actions, such as defending your valuable resources from being taken by rival players, that give them the advantage over you, which I used as an example. My solution was just a suggestion that solved the problem I had in mind.

the thing you are ignoring is that the resources are not yours until after you have gathered them. It doesn't matter if they grow inside your jacket's pocket, your forehead, your backyard, or half way across the world.

BlackBrony

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Big absolute no. You can defend a spawn all you want. If it’s valuable, people will fight you to try to take it. If it’s not valuable, then why bother defending it.

But if the people you mentioned fight whoever is taking the rare valuable resources, they’ll get flagged as corrupted because the people taking the resource can just walk away with the resource or corrupt the people fighting by not fighting. Which they can just comeback and kill the corrupt players who have debuffs and take the resources without resistance

You drop half of your gatherables/certificates on death if you don't fight back.
If they got the resources, they WILL fight back. If it's as rare as you say, it doesn't make sense to not fight back.

Also, if they die, you don't respawn close, it might be really far, which makes you win, you get the resource and now just need to lay low until corruption is gone.

daxiongmao87

Roko wrote: »

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

The point of the post was to inform that there is a problem with corruption system that allows legitimate competitive actions, such as defending your valuable resources from being taken by rival players, that give them the advantage over you, which I used as an example. My solution was just a suggestion that solved the problem I had in mind.

the thing you are ignoring is that the resources are not yours until after you have gathered them. It doesn't matter if they grow inside your jacket's pocket, your forehead, your backyard, or half way across the world.

I think you have bigger problems if your forehead is sprouting shrooms.

Beowulf Anvilbane

I guess this the best way I can explain the problem with the current corruption system before I go to bed.

Mixer and Twitch are spawned in neighboring nodes. Both Mixer and Twitch put time,sweat, blood and tears to build their cities. Because of RNG Mixer ends up with a level 3 city and Twitch has a level 4 city. Mixer is on the verge of reaching level 4 however, Twitch is now on the verge of reaching level 5 Metropolis. Because RNG, a valuable resource required to get to level 5 is spawned in Mixers node. Twitch walk over to Mixer’s node and begin to harvest this resource. Mixer gets wind of this because they know they wont be able to get a Metropolis if Twitch gets it first. Mixer begins to defend this resource from Twitch but is flagged and corrupted because it attacked Twitches players.

The point here is that Mixer is being punished for competing against Twitch and is flagged as a player killer.

This is a problem IMO. Hence why I have brought it up

IllusionTokomi

You seem to have the gist of the PvP flag system. But I think you misunderstand how corruption works.

Also, your situation is hypothetical. It almost seems a waste of time to construct it and debate it since we don't know if that's actually feasible. Blood, sweat, tears, and hours spent farming and crafting are completely irrelevant to the validity your argument. RNG does not determine if a Node advances, that - as far as we know - is only determined by player activity, which directly contributes. I'm not sure a special resource is required to rank up a Node. (Community?) But what you are proposing in your hypothetical situation actually introduces the factor. (Again: am I wrong, Community?)

As for the idea of automatically flagging as a Combatant: I think it's a bad idea. It distorts the proposed system. Additionally, it introduces too much RNG into the player experience via resource spawns. What I mean is: the location at which the resource spawns would, by virtue of geographic location, make it harder for outside agents to acquire.

Keep in mind that (according to your example) if a Node is Level 4, then the adjacent nodes are vassals. This further increases the distance of rival agents from the resource in question. They won't even know it exists, presumably. So, right at the outset, rival agents are at a disadvantage. To compound the disadvantage, as soon as they step into the outlying vassal nodes they are flagged as combatants - even though they have not entered combat and have to basically campaign through enemy territory against all comers to have a chance to acquire the resource.

This seems overwhelmingly skewed. I am against it, as I understand it.

BlackBrony

You understanding of the PvP system is not correct.

You only get corrupted if people don't fight back.

Roko

and i don't think this is a problem.

you see resources don't spawn inside nodes they are not anybody's until after they are gathered. Resources spawn outside the nodes themselves and it's first come first served.

in your example Node A got a rare resource spawn just outside it's town gates, at this moment Node A has the head start to get said resource, they decide to ignore it or maybe they didn't have any gatherers with the necessary skill to get it, or for whatever reason no Node A's citizen picked the rare resource right next to their node. Suddenly someone from Node B decides to make the trip and go gather the rare resource that Node A neglected. If they manage to gather it first in spite of being at a disadvantage for being farther away for it's spawn location to begin with. At this point now after it has been gathered it belongs to Node B's citizen and he is now carrying 10 units of this rare resource in their mule.

Now you, a citizen of node A is angry because they got it before you did even though you had the clear advantage with it being at your doorstep and all. So you, a citizen of Node A want it back, and you go attack Node B's citizen to at least get to loot part of this resource from their body.

Now Node B's citizen has a choice, either he remains a non-combatant, letting you kill him and loot 8 out of the 10 units of the rare resource from his dead body along with some corruption. Or he can fight back and become a combatant.

Why the hell would he fight and risk losing after you jumped him you may be asking yourself.

Well let me explain. If Node B's citizen becomes a combatant and loses the fight anyway you only get to loot 4 of the rare resource from his body instead of 8 and no corruption for you, he keeps 6, you get 4 and nobody is corrupted, if he wins he keeps all 10, you get 0, and nobody is corrupted.

See if he lets you kill him he only gets to keep 2 instead of 6, sure he got you corrupted, but if the resource is so significant he might actually be willing keep more of it than just giving you the corruption.

IllusionTokomi

His (OP's) hypothesis is predicated on the need for a rare resource that must spawn and be gathered specifically in order to rank up or advance a Node.

I have not heard of this mechanic. Is there such a promise? Has there been discussion among Intrepid of such an idea?

Caeryl

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

His (OP's) hypothesis is predicated on the need for a rare resource that must spawn and be gathered specifically in order to rank up or advance a Node.

I have not heard of this mechanic. Is there such a promise? Has there been discussion among Intrepid of such an idea?

There is currently no such mechanic

Nodes will require resources to grow, but unless something has changed recently, that’s a quantity over quality thing.

Beowulf Anvilbane

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

His (OP's) hypothesis is predicated on the need for a rare resource that must spawn and be gathered specifically in order to rank up or advance a Node.

I have not heard of this mechanic. Is there such a promise? Has there been discussion among Intrepid of such an idea?

I think I used the City example too many time people I think I have a problem with Node leveling.

My problem is that the corruption system as it is know can potentially flag a player as a corrupt person unjustly.

Let’s say a you have a rivalry going on with a guild from a neighboring node. You get wind that they’re grinding a certain resource that can be crafted into a rare item that will tip the balance towards their guild in the next guild war against them. This resource is growing near your node and you get informed by spies that this resource is being harvested by your rival guild. You gather your members and head off to fight off this guild from this resource but you and several high level guild members happen to bump into a player gathering resource which is a non-combative state, and he drops dead before he realizes his guild is being attacked.

You or one of you guild members dealt the final blow just got corrupted for killing this unsuspecting player that was assigned to gather the resources. You just got corrupted just because you stopped a rival guild getting a competitive advantage over you. This is the problem that I have a problem. I hope the core of the problem is clearer now. Just woke up 😅

Barbablanco

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

However, if a very rare resource were to appear in my node, I wouldn’t want people from competing nodes taking that resource, which could potentially jump start their node into a metropolis. I would want to take this rare resource for my node. If a player from a competing node is traveling through my node and is harvesting/mining, its only natural my guild and I would want to ward the players away for taking resources from my node that benefit their node. If my friend and I were to kill these players from another node who are taking resources from my node, would we be flagged as a combatant and eventually corrupted?

I think resources in the open world don't belong to anyone. Resources are going to be distributed unevenly throughout the world so that players will need to gather resources from other zones. Resources from far away areas are always going to be worth more, so players are going to be encouraged to gather locally and selling far away. Also, I think the gathering of the resources automatically applies experience to the nearby node. So even non citizens gathering would level up your node.

I think it works well for their risk vs reward philosophy. If you want to keep resources for yourself i think the corruption system creates and interesting set of choices. If you both want a valuable resource you can fight or not fight for it. If you both fight you flag for pvp, neither player gets corruption and it reduces both your death penalties. You can choose to not fight back, take the full death penalty so they get corruption. Lastly, you could both not fight and race for resources or cooperate with each other. This way you can stop a few people from taking a resource, but you won't be able to completely exclude others from getting it.

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

I don’t see a way where I can ward players from stealing our nodes resources from players from competing nodes without getting corrupted.

Citizens of far away nodes will need to use caravans to transport resources back to their home node. Opening them up for ambush in the road where they will be flagged for pvp.

BlackBrony

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

His (OP's) hypothesis is predicated on the need for a rare resource that must spawn and be gathered specifically in order to rank up or advance a Node.

I have not heard of this mechanic. Is there such a promise? Has there been discussion among Intrepid of such an idea?

I think I used the City example too many time people I think I have a problem with Node leveling.

My problem is that the corruption system as it is know can potentially flag a player as a corrupt person unjustly.

Let’s say a you have a rivalry going on with a guild from a neighboring node. You get wind that they’re grinding a certain resource that can be crafted into a rare item that will tip the balance towards their guild in the next guild war against them. This resource is growing near your node and you get informed by spies that this resource is being harvested by your rival guild. You gather your members and head off to fight off this guild from this resource but you and several high level guild members happen to bump into a player gathering resource which is a non-combative state, and he drops dead before he realizes his guild is being attacked.

You or one of you guild members dealt the final blow just got corrupted for killing this unsuspecting player that was assigned to gather the resources. You just got corrupted just because you stopped a rival guild getting a competitive advantage over you. This is the problem that I have a problem. I hope the core of the problem is clearer now. Just woke up 😅

If you're trigger happy face the consequences.
You can easily HIT the player first and wait to the reaction. Does the player fight back? If the player fights back, no corruption.

Are you 20 guild members ganging up one player? Well, then don't complain about corruption, you one shotted the player without any chance of retaliation.

Did you stop to parley? Intimidate the player into giving the resource or stop gathering it and save the death penalty?

I mean, I see so many options, I don't understand why you will go straight to killing when there are so many ways around.

Caeryl

Beowulf Anvilbane wrote: »

IllusionTokomi wrote: »

His (OP's) hypothesis is predicated on the need for a rare resource that must spawn and be gathered specifically in order to rank up or advance a Node.

I have not heard of this mechanic. Is there such a promise? Has there been discussion among Intrepid of such an idea?

I think I used the City example too many time people I think I have a problem with Node leveling.

My problem is that the corruption system as it is know can potentially flag a player as a corrupt person unjustly.

Let’s say a you have a rivalry going on with a guild from a neighboring node. You get wind that they’re grinding a certain resource that can be crafted into a rare item that will tip the balance towards their guild in the next guild war against them. This resource is growing near your node and you get informed by spies that this resource is being harvested by your rival guild. You gather your members and head off to fight off this guild from this resource but you and several high level guild members happen to bump into a player gathering resource which is a non-combative state, and he drops dead before he realizes his guild is being attacked.

You or one of you guild members dealt the final blow just got corrupted for killing this unsuspecting player that was assigned to gather the resources. You just got corrupted just because you stopped a rival guild getting a competitive advantage over you. This is the problem that I have a problem. I hope the core of the problem is clearer now. Just woke up 😅

If your guild is at war with another guild then you don’t incur any corruption when killing that guild’s members, so this argument falls apart too.

Sivrog

This is not a problem, you are free to go take what you want from their nodes just the same they are free to take from yours. Fight over what is valuable to you. Just because you call the node home doesn't mean its your resources. Plenty of mechanics in the game to avoid corruption.

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