noaani wrote: » People already play MMO's the way people want to play MMO's. Changing player behavior is almost impossible.
leonerdo wrote: » noaani wrote: » People already play MMO's the way people want to play MMO's. Changing player behavior is almost impossible. I think MMOs should aspire to teach it's players, to be flexible, to support the interaction of different people and playstyles.
noaani wrote: » leonerdo wrote: » noaani wrote: » People already play MMO's the way people want to play MMO's. Changing player behavior is almost impossible. I think MMOs should aspire to teach it's players, to be flexible, to support the interaction of different people and playstyles. MMO's should support different people and playstyles, MMO communities should be the ones teaching, imo. People don't want their games content pushing them - they want the content there, and if they feel like taking it on they will do so.
Wandering Mist wrote: » noaani wrote: » leonerdo wrote: » noaani wrote: » People already play MMO's the way people want to play MMO's. Changing player behavior is almost impossible. I think MMOs should aspire to teach it's players, to be flexible, to support the interaction of different people and playstyles. MMO's should support different people and playstyles, MMO communities should be the ones teaching, imo. People don't want their games content pushing them - they want the content there, and if they feel like taking it on they will do so. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Similarly, if you try to force players to learn and improve when they don't want to, they will dig in their heels and refuse.
consultant wrote: » In my opinion theres is nothing to normal raiding.
consultant wrote: » Nothing to do with skill cause MMOs Usually have one second cool down.
consultant wrote: » Well there are raid leaders that pride themselves in takeing most players and getting them to the point of doing normal raids. Horst to water.....well any that wants to raid could only other thing stoping them is not enough raid leaders. There is a saying that is applicable in some situations and that is everything rises and falls on leadership another saying is people will rise to their expectations. Actually have seen that done. One person gets put into a leadership position and all the sudden perfomance sky rockets. One example in real life is coaches. Personally I have been the person that stands in the fire and gotten kicked out of dungeouns and not been able to get into raid so I just PvPed and well as it turns PvP is a not a good mentoring program just too punishing but forces you to have raid awareness forces you to push all those buttons at right time. Plus lets say get good at pvp then start playing into better brackets. Well those guys exploit any mistake you make so it is even more punishing. So basically have to bring your A game every time. Nothing to do with skill cause MMOs Usually have one second cool down. more time than needed to hit next button. Just a matter of being in an environment were more is required there for you do more. More like natural selection. Then I went back to raiding with decent guild. Doing Dragon Soul normal for first time think I wiped ounce but went right through hit . But thing is guys there thought I had already done the raid on an alt and did not beleive it was my first time cuase I played so well. Only thing I am thinking of nothing to it guys. Going to Skip rest of that story and say thet the guilds that are competing for being in top ten on server and top 100 in north ameirca. Those guilds play on a whole different level. Wiping and standing in the fire is not something they worry aout. Just as skilled as top PvPers. In my opinion theres is nothing to normal raiding. Can honestly say that trying to kill a healer in 3v3 is at least twice as challenging as any raid boss. What I learned from the point that I got kicked from dungeouns to the point were raid leaders wanted me in their raid is not much. Just matter of knowing of how to do it. Are mentoring programs absolete and is not that what a raid leader is a mentor. Your posts look real negative to me and not at all realistic.
consultant wrote: » Well any ways forgot to mention some things about not standing in the fire. Raid Bosses are not going anywere for the most part plus with tab targeting you really do not have to have your eyes glued to the boss. Even with skills shots since raid bosses do not move around or dodge attacks so your eyes do not have to be glued to the target. So no tunnel vision required. Another thing you could do to not stand in the fire is not to use the first person veiw point of view. but take 3rd person point of view and a little far away and camera angle should be tilted toward the ground a little. Now the things I mentioned might seem redundant, but probably not so for someone that stands in the fire. Problem is getting this information to the players that need it. Instead of a PvE reward system you could in fact have a PvE punishing system were people get less gold for bad performance what do you guys think of that. There could be a red x in a square with that annoying buzzer sound whenever someone is standing in the fire. This could be a level 1 through 30 thing. Surely that would help people not stand in the fire.
leonerdo wrote: » I think what @consultant is trying to say, basically, is that there are several things new players need to know how to do (avoid fire, manage cooldowns, figure out a decent rotation for DPS, use CC at appropriate times, etc.), and it can help to have them enumerated plainly, or have them laid out one at a time. These things are pretty obvious for veterans, but for brand-new players, they might not even know what it is they're doing wrong in a full dungeon or raid situation.
leonerdo wrote: » I think what @consultant is trying to say, basically, is that there are several things new players need to know how to do (avoid fire, manage cooldowns, figure out a decent rotation for DPS, use CC at appropriate times, etc.), and it can help to have them enumerated plainly, or have them laid out one at a time. These things are pretty obvious for veterans, but for brand-new players, they might not even know what it is they're doing wrong in a full dungeon or raid situation. However, I agree with @Wandering Mist that using individual, overly-specific rewards in EVERY dungeon is a terrible way to teach players about specific mechanics or skills. I'd rather have early-game quests and dungeons focus only on one of these skills at a time, to properly teach newbies without distracting them with all the other trappings of a full dungeon. Then, of course, end-game dungeons can put all the pieces together. I would specifically like to emphasize that DPS checks should be a regular occurrence, even in low-level dungeons. Games which don't introduce serious DPS checks early in the game, are just asking for people to never look at their skills or rotations. (Has anybody seen Guild Grumps? It's a hilariously extreme example. Ross literally tells everyone to just mash buttons going through early WoW gameplay, and they manage to struggle through a lot of stuff. And when they actually read their skills, days later, it's like night and day how much better the whole experience is.) Also dungeons shouldn't allow healers to just keep people alive forever, even when they stand in fire. There are many ways to enforce a slightly-punishing, but not frustrating, challenge in low-level dungeons; but if the only "punishment" is that people take a little bit of damage which the healer quickly fixes, that's not good enough to teach people. I don't mind (and I even enjoying) being able to hard-carry a party as healer, even when everyone else is making tons mistakes; but it should be a miserable experience for everyone else as they spend a lot of time dead-on-the-ground or otherwise incapacitated/CCed/debuffed. That's how you get people to care about the fire they're standing in.(I think this comment was more rambling that usual...)
