DPS Meter Megathread

This discussion was created from comments split from: DPS Meter Megathread.

I’ve instructed the mods to focus any dps meter threads into a single mega thread to help focus and centralize the discussion 👍

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Noaani

krojak wrote: »

Keeping it simple:

No to DPS Meters:
Focus on the fight.

Enjoy the mechanics of the boss.

Keep your eyes off of the interface.

Full immersion.

No screen clutter.

You're doing combat trackers wrong.

There is no need to have anything at all displayed on the screen, or indeed anything that could break the immersion of the encounter.

3am

noaani wrote: »

3am wrote: »

One is the ability to make personal decisions within the games outlining design and direction

Actually, it is teh ability to make *informed* decisions.

That is a key word in this context.

A decision without information is a guess.

You act like DPS meters are the only thing that could inform these decisions.

Krojak

noaani wrote: »

krojak wrote: »

Keeping it simple:

No to DPS Meters:
Focus on the fight.

Enjoy the mechanics of the boss.

Keep your eyes off of the interface.

Full immersion.

No screen clutter.

You're doing combat trackers wrong.

There is no need to have anything at all displayed on the screen, or indeed anything that could break the immersion of the encounter.

I agree with you. I'm generally pro dps meter, however I'm trying to position the proposal in my OP in a way that anti-dps meter people can agree with.

Daedrik45

Oh ok makes sense, the meter used on wow actually has different stats like for example. Dps, hps and I believe a few other things. People underestimate the trauma wow refugees suffer from lol the struggle is real.

Noaani

3am wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

3am wrote: »

One is the ability to make personal decisions within the games outlining design and direction

Actually, it is teh ability to make *informed* decisions.

That is a key word in this context.

A decision without information is a guess.

You act like DPS meters are the only thing that could inform these decisions.

A combat tracker is the only thing that could provide a complete picture in a non-granular form of that information in regards to combat - simply because anything that provides this information fits in to the definition of what a combat tracker is.

Songcaller

Daedrik45 wrote: »

Oh ok makes sense, the meter used on wow actually has different stats like for example. Dps, hps and I believe a few other things. People underestimate the trauma wow refugees suffer from lol the struggle is real.

Yes, Noanni loves to twist the concepts. Damage Received calculates the Damage Per Second taken.

Only Noobs need a tool to tell them not to stand in lava.

CaptnChuck

@krojak

So kind of like League of Legends huh. Sounds interesting.

Krojak

CaptnChuck wrote: »

@krojak

So kind of like League of Legends huh. Sounds interesting.

For sure. I imagine lots of different types of raiders could glean some useful information from a report that could cover all sorts of factors (some of which I listed in the OP).

3am

noaani wrote: »

3am wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

3am wrote: »

One is the ability to make personal decisions within the games outlining design and direction

Actually, it is teh ability to make *informed* decisions.

That is a key word in this context.

A decision without information is a guess.

You act like DPS meters are the only thing that could inform these decisions.

A combat tracker is the only thing that could provide a complete picture in a non-granular form of that information in regards to combat - simply because anything that provides this information fits in to the definition of what a combat tracker is.

Skill tooltips should help guide you down the right path, past that common sense is your friend. X damage for x time with x modifiers. The point is that you shouldn't have a complete picture instantly with no work. Even improving your build should be engaging content. Not a sim.

Noaani

krojak wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

krojak wrote: »

Keeping it simple:

No to DPS Meters:
Focus on the fight.

Enjoy the mechanics of the boss.

Keep your eyes off of the interface.

Full immersion.

No screen clutter.

You're doing combat trackers wrong.

There is no need to have anything at all displayed on the screen, or indeed anything that could break the immersion of the encounter.

I agree with you. I'm generally pro dps meter, however I'm trying to position the proposal in my OP in a way that anti-dps meter people can agree with.

To be fair, I'm not at all against the idea, I just see it as a different name for the same thing.

To me, whether a thing like this works or not comes down to one major thing, and one minor thing - the major being the information that is contained, and the minor that it needs to be avaiable on all encounters, not just bosses.

Noaani

3am wrote: »

Skill tooltips should help guide you down the right path

Combat trackers help to prove if tool tips are correct or not.

Every game I have ever played has had multiple cases where they have not been correct.

Damokles

I would be okay with that!

Krojak

noaani wrote: »

krojak wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

krojak wrote: »

Keeping it simple:

No to DPS Meters:
Focus on the fight.

Enjoy the mechanics of the boss.

Keep your eyes off of the interface.

Full immersion.

No screen clutter.

You're doing combat trackers wrong.

There is no need to have anything at all displayed on the screen, or indeed anything that could break the immersion of the encounter.

I agree with you. I'm generally pro dps meter, however I'm trying to position the proposal in my OP in a way that anti-dps meter people can agree with.

To be fair, I'm not at all against the idea, I just see it as a different name for the same thing.

To me, whether a thing like this works or not comes down to one major thing, and one minor thing - the major being the information that is contained, and the minor that it needs to be avaiable on all encounters, not just bosses.

I'd love it for all encounters, but again I'm trying to make a compromise here. Trash mobs are trash mobs. If I have to sacrifice a DPS Meter and sacrifice trash mob damage tracking to get Boss Mob damage tracking I'm all for that.

Songcaller

Would be excellent for the rages and tears. I'd love the effect it will have when a Raid Team loses the loot and then a debrief explains why.

darthus

First of all, the Devs have to many other - more important - tasks to do, which take massive amount of time to polish them, like combat mechanics / behaviour, balancing classes for both PvE and PvP, new "revolutionary" maybe features on the game and so on - so forth.

Even Blizzard which is one of the biggest MMO studios out there don't bother with build-in addons. Addons, of any kind, can only be perfected by the community for the simple reason that requires a lot of testing and a lot of coding to do. It is something similar to alpha-beta testing.

Have you ever wondered, pretty much after 2010, why every studio out there do alpha testing with community instead of hiring their own people ?

It's because alpha-beta testing requires a lot of people to test the game, for a long period of time. And that "a lot" it goes into thousands. More people to test a game - More chances to spot the mistakes - More new ideas come into the table.

Addons works the same way.

For the sake of the debate, let's assume 1 mind = 1 design. A studio can spare 5 minds to design an addon, the outcome will be a combination of those 5 minds. Now, the community offers 100 minds maybe even more than 1000+. So the chances the addon to be nearly perfect are much more.

In all major current MMOs out there, addons are made by the community and improved the gameplay by a lot.

Specifically for the damage meters, it is a fundamental feature for competitive gameplay and keeps people focused, in most cases (including myself). Even during the battle you can altered your rotation to improve your dps, and is a good way to spot mistakes.

Also, dps meters are optional feature. If you don't like it, you don't use. But forcing others not to use it , by telling the studio to disable it, is an ill request.

Remember - Whatever works in the past, it is good to keep it that way for the future. History is a great teacher for many things

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

Only Noobs need a tool to tell them not to stand in lava.

I agree, but I'm not sure what the relevance here is.

A combat tracker isn't a tool to tell people to not stand in the lava.

Undead Canuck

So, you want a DPS meter. Just not an active one. You want to have all the information parsed out so that the elitists can say they did amazingly (or had a bad day, bad internet, not my fault) and the other person was suxorz.
Why not just ask for full DPS meters. The only difference with this is that you don't know until after the fight who you need to shame.

Bolorny

(Almost) Every game has chat text recordable as .txt log files.
Set your chat windows to make a tab dedicated to combat logs only, record it, parse it, and voilà ! You'll have your dps meter... just not in game, aside from it.

Text parsers are fairly easy to code, I'm assuming someone in the community will do it and share it with everyone, no doubt about it.
That's how we did it in Everquest, 21 years ago.

And so, both people who want and don't want dick-o-meters will be happy.

Done with the dps meters threads ! Next !

Samson1

darthus wrote: »

In all major current MMOs out there, addons are made by the community and improved the gameplay by a lot.

Specifically for the damage meters, it is a fundamental feature for competitive gameplay and keeps people focused, in most cases (including myself). Even during the battle you can altered your rotation to improve your dps, and is a good way to spot mistakes.

Also, dps meters are optional feature. If you don't like it, you don't use. But forcing others not to use it , by telling the studio to disable it, is an ill request.

Remember - Whatever works in the past, it is good to keep it that way for the future. History is a great teacher for many things

It's already been stated many..many times by Steven that there will be no add-ons or DPS meters in the game.

Songcaller

The people in favour of the DPS Meters will take anything that is not currently intended. We will have Combat Logs but of course, Combat Logs are no good. The younger generations have learnt to rely on extra tools. It is a difficult practice to crack because they see the game as incomplete without extra tools.

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