Murdach wrote: » LockedOut wrote: » The goal is to have a character creator equivalent to BDO. I'm guessing you won't have any issues making your character the way you want. Personally, I don't really know if it's me, but posts like this kinda rub me the wrong way. When I watch a movie like Black Panther where the cast is mostly black, zero white main cast, and one of the few white people is a sub villain. I don't think well where's my representation? Art usually reflects the artist, whether that's games, movies, novels. Most Fantasy is based off of Tolkien, so it makes sense that a lot of the races tend to be white. But, who cares? I was raised, and still believe today that as M.L.K. Jr. said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." When I watch the Black Panther, I don't think where's my representation because it's already there. It's there when T'Challa is talking to his father in the afterlife, it's there when M'Baku decides to stand with, and protect T'Challa. We're much more than just the color of our skin; we share a much deeper bond. We're all brothers, and sisters. We're all human. I won't knock you for this, but it isnt equal. Black Panther is kind of a one in a million movie. 99% of movies of any type represent White folks of all shapes, sizes, and walks of life. Your life is inundated with representation, boss. It is a special kind of privilege
LockedOut wrote: » The goal is to have a character creator equivalent to BDO. I'm guessing you won't have any issues making your character the way you want. Personally, I don't really know if it's me, but posts like this kinda rub me the wrong way. When I watch a movie like Black Panther where the cast is mostly black, zero white main cast, and one of the few white people is a sub villain. I don't think well where's my representation? Art usually reflects the artist, whether that's games, movies, novels. Most Fantasy is based off of Tolkien, so it makes sense that a lot of the races tend to be white. But, who cares? I was raised, and still believe today that as M.L.K. Jr. said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." When I watch the Black Panther, I don't think where's my representation because it's already there. It's there when T'Challa is talking to his father in the afterlife, it's there when M'Baku decides to stand with, and protect T'Challa. We're much more than just the color of our skin; we share a much deeper bond. We're all brothers, and sisters. We're all human.
voidshadow wrote: » Nagash wrote: » Forgot this existed. I agree 100%
Nagash wrote: »
Naxxaz wrote: » @suprvilln I would like to hear your thoughts about my previous comment, if you have any. Also, unrelated, what other cultures have Dwarf-like beings outside Scandinavia? Just out of curiosity.
GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though.
nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes.
voidshadow wrote: » I know the op wasn't talking about character create but character create does kinda solve a lot of these issues. Or in my opinion it does. To say the human race in game is 'white' is kinda weird and borderline racist to me. They're human. They come in all forms. Players customize their avatar how they wish. And devs design npcs how they wish. Now if the devs just decided that every human npc is gonna be snow white, then yeah thats somewhat concerning. Same thing with elves. They're meant to be fair skinned. You have the drow elf concept though ashes doesn't appear to have that. Though again, skin sliders in char create can fix this and devs can just throw in dark skinned elves and stick lore on it. Orcs are orcs Dwarves: as someone mentioned, the island dwarves do appear to be a bit more dark skinned. I guess what I'm trying to say here is it all depends on what the player creates and what kind of npc the devs create. Yes the devs can add a specific culture that is more relevant to a specific skin type and that would be cool. The only time things get concerning is if devs dont add skin sliders or just copy paste white npcs. Also OP, don't bring up asian mmos in a race discussion. They either always look like anime characters, or lolli or cute animals or 5ex dolls or k-pop stars. theres no in between. Race is an irrelevant concept in that regard For me, i'm middle eastern/south asian. I have brown skin and was never bothered by representation. I was always that by the book player who designed a character to resemble my real self (aside from hair style. Always go with a cooler hairstyle than the one i rock irl). That's just me though. I won't claim to understand where you're coming from because i truly don't understand it.
nelsonrebel wrote: » Nagash wrote: » ^^ This all the way I do not want politics in a video game. That type of thinking is what directly ruins the integrity and immersion of a world. Besides AoC is more than likely already about as diverse as it gets. We're getting a lizard race and hawaiin dwarves.
Kohl wrote: » Screw the safe space. What about my bi-sexual character? I need my flag as an option on my tabard! Or rather, how about you allow me to split my character in 3 colors, pink, purple, and blue? I also want male npc's to blush whenever I walk past them.
suprvilln wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Nagash wrote: » ^^ This all the way I do not want politics in a video game. That type of thinking is what directly ruins the integrity and immersion of a world. Besides AoC is more than likely already about as diverse as it gets. We're getting a lizard race and hawaiin dwarves. are you saying having diverse races in a game = politics? lol.
nelsonrebel wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Nagash wrote: » ^^ This all the way I do not want politics in a video game. That type of thinking is what directly ruins the integrity and immersion of a world. Besides AoC is more than likely already about as diverse as it gets. We're getting a lizard race and hawaiin dwarves. are you saying having diverse races in a game = politics? lol. No, if you look at what I was replying to I was talking about a different subject altogether there from the previous postings who were talking about off topic items. You can see from my other posts that AoC is already in the direction of diversity. MMO's should be diverse. Thats kind of the point
suprvilln wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Nagash wrote: » ^^ This all the way I do not want politics in a video game. That type of thinking is what directly ruins the integrity and immersion of a world. Besides AoC is more than likely already about as diverse as it gets. We're getting a lizard race and hawaiin dwarves. are you saying having diverse races in a game = politics? lol. No, if you look at what I was replying to I was talking about a different subject altogether there from the previous postings who were talking about off topic items. You can see from my other posts that AoC is already in the direction of diversity. MMO's should be diverse. Thats kind of the point ah for sure... i knew this post would get out of hand and people would immediately get defensive lol. i never said devs are racist, simply expressed my experience with MMOs and people fall over themselves going crazy and talking about BLM and ANTIFA *shrugs*... thank you for your feedback though, you had some valuable input and I appreciate you
suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me.
suprvilln wrote: » Hello there! I am super excited to play Ashes but looking at the races it looks like there are 8 white races and 1 kind of culturally ambiguous race that is meant to be a catch all for "non-white". Is it a big ask to think outside of the box more to include more culturally diverse characters to allow more people to be able to see themselves represented in the game without being locked to one character race? Like my main will be a dwarf for SURE. I have always loved dwarves. But why is there never any non-white dwarf races? Dwarves can be seen in mythology for cultures all around the world, not just in western Europe. Why do we keep clinging to these tropes? it is an honest question because this is something that serves as a barrier for immersion for myself and for many players of color. There are lots of cool stories there that are just waiting to be explored. I look forward to the responses I will get and the sad thing is I am ready to be demeaned and the berated by people for asking something so simple lol.
IllusionTokomi wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » Hello there! I am super excited to play Ashes but looking at the races it looks like there are 8 white races and 1 kind of culturally ambiguous race that is meant to be a catch all for "non-white". Is it a big ask to think outside of the box more to include more culturally diverse characters to allow more people to be able to see themselves represented in the game without being locked to one character race? Like my main will be a dwarf for SURE. I have always loved dwarves. But why is there never any non-white dwarf races? Dwarves can be seen in mythology for cultures all around the world, not just in western Europe. Why do we keep clinging to these tropes? it is an honest question because this is something that serves as a barrier for immersion for myself and for many players of color. There are lots of cool stories there that are just waiting to be explored. I look forward to the responses I will get and the sad thing is I am ready to be demeaned and the berated by people for asking something so simple lol. Well, I don't really care what color your skin is or anything about your genetics; you are a soul and have a body. You're a human being. Short answer: We don't "cling to these tropes," we play games that include them. They were invented in the mythologies of (predominantly) Norse legends, those were a certain race of men. For brevity, I won't explain further regarding skin color, I hope that's obvious. But you know this. If skin-shade sliders are not enough for you, then what I think you require is lore. It's a good thing to ask of them, I'm not denouncing you or the asking in any way. But you need Intrepid to create lore, as Bethesda did with the Redguards. And in the case that they don not. (though I'm sure they have capable professionals), why not write your own and post it? Give some fuel. In other words, make it real in the game by your actions. Do it yourself. Cheers.
nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves?
suprvilln wrote: » Beck Altarr wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » Neurath wrote: » We cant answer your question. It is unfeasible to make a whole race one colour. Some players will be dark and some players will be light. It is a fantasy world. Some Orcs are green, some Orcs are red. It is not a slight against Dark Skinned people, it is a fantasy setting with fantasy races. it's unfeasible but we see all white races in fantasy games all the time which is the reason behind my frustration and my post. This is race baiting. It's not about a lack of Hair options. This is about stirring up drama in the BLM culture that's happening in the U.S. right now. When should I expect the Antifa posts? Does this game need Cultural Marxism as a government type? This is a FANTASY GAME. Stop trying to bring the out side world into a space where we should have the opportunity to leave it behind. The only reason why Earth Cultures are represented in games is to offer a connection. A familiarity which helps us in our immersion of the Game world. If a game is too alien then it's harder to become immersed in it and it can put people off the game. That's why most Aliens are humanoid when it's not likely that any other species would evolve to look so much like us anywhere else in the universe. You see what you see in games because you are the casual racist here, Not the Game Dev's as your implying. It's ok, pretty much everyone has a bias in some way. It's human nature sadly. There are plenty of games where Black people are the dominant people because that is the Developers Choice. If you feel there is a lack of "representation", the U.S. population is made up of about 13% Black people. It's less in other western countries. I am in Canada. I think the Black population is less than 8%. Please provide citation of Dwarves and Eleves in Black/African Culture. The only examples I have found are that of spirits that are dark because they are bad/evil. They are not Elves or Dwarves, they may be described in vague similar outlines physically, but their lore isn't that of what traditional Elves and Dwarvs have been because the Traditional Elves and Dwarves and Orcs come from J.R.R. Tolkin's interpretation from Northern European stories where Dwarves and Elves didn't exist as we know them either. It's like the modern day depiction of Santa Clause we see everywhere at Christmas started based on a Poem in the early 1800's. Coke-Cola invented the fat man in a red suit we see today in the early 1930's as part of a marketing campaign. Prior to that the idea and concept of Santa Clause was VERY different. I see different shades of NPC's in the games I play, not because I am looking for them, they are just there for no other reason than NPC's are often created randomly. They range in all kinds of colours, not just black or white but other colours that don't exist in the real world. You also have to consider the lore of the game. Maybe a game has a very temperate climate where people don't need to evolve darker skin to be protected from a Sun that would other wise burn them. The fact is there doesn't need to be a reason to have any color of skin represented, it's a developer choice and we play their game. If you don't like the options provided then play a different game. Vote with your wallet. This thread is divisive and cancer. Next someone will be complaining there is no way to transition and where is the Official Safe Space in the Metropolis. I love this post!! A total swing and a miss. BLM and ANTIFA? you definitely watch Fox News lol, gotta love those hot words! If you want to research Dwarves in African or East Asian cultures or any other culture, i support you in your quest to educate yourself... if i am race baiting dont ask me to educate you, learn for yourself. thank you for your opinion and feedback, and have a great day!
Beck Altarr wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » Neurath wrote: » We cant answer your question. It is unfeasible to make a whole race one colour. Some players will be dark and some players will be light. It is a fantasy world. Some Orcs are green, some Orcs are red. It is not a slight against Dark Skinned people, it is a fantasy setting with fantasy races. it's unfeasible but we see all white races in fantasy games all the time which is the reason behind my frustration and my post. This is race baiting. It's not about a lack of Hair options. This is about stirring up drama in the BLM culture that's happening in the U.S. right now. When should I expect the Antifa posts? Does this game need Cultural Marxism as a government type? This is a FANTASY GAME. Stop trying to bring the out side world into a space where we should have the opportunity to leave it behind. The only reason why Earth Cultures are represented in games is to offer a connection. A familiarity which helps us in our immersion of the Game world. If a game is too alien then it's harder to become immersed in it and it can put people off the game. That's why most Aliens are humanoid when it's not likely that any other species would evolve to look so much like us anywhere else in the universe. You see what you see in games because you are the casual racist here, Not the Game Dev's as your implying. It's ok, pretty much everyone has a bias in some way. It's human nature sadly. There are plenty of games where Black people are the dominant people because that is the Developers Choice. If you feel there is a lack of "representation", the U.S. population is made up of about 13% Black people. It's less in other western countries. I am in Canada. I think the Black population is less than 8%. Please provide citation of Dwarves and Eleves in Black/African Culture. The only examples I have found are that of spirits that are dark because they are bad/evil. They are not Elves or Dwarves, they may be described in vague similar outlines physically, but their lore isn't that of what traditional Elves and Dwarvs have been because the Traditional Elves and Dwarves and Orcs come from J.R.R. Tolkin's interpretation from Northern European stories where Dwarves and Elves didn't exist as we know them either. It's like the modern day depiction of Santa Clause we see everywhere at Christmas started based on a Poem in the early 1800's. Coke-Cola invented the fat man in a red suit we see today in the early 1930's as part of a marketing campaign. Prior to that the idea and concept of Santa Clause was VERY different. I see different shades of NPC's in the games I play, not because I am looking for them, they are just there for no other reason than NPC's are often created randomly. They range in all kinds of colours, not just black or white but other colours that don't exist in the real world. You also have to consider the lore of the game. Maybe a game has a very temperate climate where people don't need to evolve darker skin to be protected from a Sun that would other wise burn them. The fact is there doesn't need to be a reason to have any color of skin represented, it's a developer choice and we play their game. If you don't like the options provided then play a different game. Vote with your wallet. This thread is divisive and cancer. Next someone will be complaining there is no way to transition and where is the Official Safe Space in the Metropolis.
suprvilln wrote: » Neurath wrote: » We cant answer your question. It is unfeasible to make a whole race one colour. Some players will be dark and some players will be light. It is a fantasy world. Some Orcs are green, some Orcs are red. It is not a slight against Dark Skinned people, it is a fantasy setting with fantasy races. it's unfeasible but we see all white races in fantasy games all the time which is the reason behind my frustration and my post.
Neurath wrote: » We cant answer your question. It is unfeasible to make a whole race one colour. Some players will be dark and some players will be light. It is a fantasy world. Some Orcs are green, some Orcs are red. It is not a slight against Dark Skinned people, it is a fantasy setting with fantasy races.
suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves? not going to go into politics but you named one instance in Leeds of people getting the wrong person, this does not negate the hundreds of statues that shouldn't be up. its not PC culture to cease idolizing/memorializing people who lived hateful lives or perpetuated genocide/massacre which is most often the case. the failure to see the world from someone else's shoes is what causes these issues in the first place. cheers matey.
suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though. well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers!
suprvilln wrote: » "I was absolutely moved that a game I had loved since beta had finally thought to make a wider array of their player base feel more included.I can't even imagine the lack of representation felt by Asian, Latinx, Indigenous, etc people."
