Too many healers?

Will there be too many healers in AoC with too little demand for them?

My concern stems from two bits of information coming from Steven, stated in various interviews.

1.) Clerics will be the only main archetype with a focus on healing, that is, you’ll need to be a cleric/something to fulfill the healer role in your group.
2.) The standard group size will be 8, and the content/PvP will be balanced around the idea of these groups of 8 containing one of each of the main archetypes.

It follows from the above that a group of 8 will require one main healer, allowing that other something/cleric classes will be able to provide some off healing, the ratio of which we have no information on as of now.

I have little experience with MMOs, only ever played WoW and ESO, where the standard group sizes (requiring one healer) are 5 and 4, respectively. And in neither of these games have I seen a shortage of healers, which means that every 4th or 5th player in the game is willing to play a healer. If AoC is balanced in a way that requires every 8th person to play a healer, won’t there be too many of (with too little demand for) them?

#clericunemployment

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delghinn

jubilum wrote: »

Let me see if I understand. People want to heal but don't want to be a Cleric...Am I right?

people are concerned there's only one archetype (out of eight) that's a viable healer and every mmorpg that utilizes the trinity have had massive shortages of players interested in healers (and tanks) out of the pool of players.

a simple workaround fix would be to allow for other classes to be able to perform these roles (bard, summoner, ..) and also have both cleric and tank be able to function as dps (when not healing/tanking) so they're not completely pigeonholed into those roles the entire time which would drive up interest.

the core issue is the trinity is busted and games need a more complex, varied, and logical group mechanics however that appears to not be a task anyone has been willing to take on yet.

jsolo

All you have to do is login to any other MMO and the classes that are always in need are Healer and Tanks. It seems everyone and their mother love playing DPS Mages, Rogues or fighters. I don't think AoC will be any different.

Jubilum

delghinn wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Let me see if I understand. People want to heal but don't want to be a Cleric...Am I right?

people are concerned there's only one archetype (out of eight) that's a viable healer and every mmorpg that utilizes the trinity have had massive shortages of players interested in healers (and tanks) out of the pool of players.

a simple workaround fix would be to allow for other classes to be able to perform these roles (bard, summoner, ..) and also have both cleric and tank be able to function as dps (when not healing/tanking) so they're not completely pigeonholed into those roles the entire time which would drive up interest.

the core issue is the trinity is busted and games need a more complex, varied, and logical group mechanics however that appears to not be a task anyone has been willing to take on yet.

I understand what your saying. But, number one rule for success KISS. Why muddy the waters, if you want to heal roll a Cleric, if you want to Tank roll a tank, If you want to DPS roll your favorite flavor. Now in future patches I would be all for adding other archtypes that specialize in healing and tanking as long as it is a unique way of healing or tanking, not just another Cleric or tank,

I could see a Bard/cleric have a buff for the group that would increase healing received. Or maybe even a massive ultimate group heal with a really long cd.

bloodprophet

delghinn wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Let me see if I understand. People want to heal but don't want to be a Cleric...Am I right?

people are concerned there's only one archetype (out of eight) that's a viable healer and every mmorpg that utilizes the trinity have had massive shortages of players interested in healers (and tanks) out of the pool of players.

a simple workaround fix would be to allow for other classes to be able to perform these roles (bard, summoner, ..) and also have both cleric and tank be able to function as dps (when not healing/tanking) so they're not completely pigeonholed into those roles the entire time which would drive up interest.

the core issue is the trinity is busted and games need a more complex, varied, and logical group mechanics however that appears to not be a task anyone has been willing to take on yet.

Many games tried this. Some are popular like GW2.
Everyone is dps. No class interdependency just a bunch of people running around throwing stuff at each other. I read they tried to fix it later and screwed it up worse then it was.
Not interested in Dumpster Fire 3.

Yuyukoyay

I know exactly what forming a class means I just think it would be cool if some classes had a role change. Not a whole lot just like 4 of the non summoner ones. Like the augments are so extreme for those classes that they can cover roles they otherwise couldn't as another class with that archetype.

Not saying that it will actually happen but that it would definitely increase selection for tanks or healers if 1 or 2 classes could cover it if they choose to change their class (aka second archetype). There is definitely going to be healer/tank deficiencies. Every game that relies on the holy trinity has this problem. So they can alleviate it by having more healer/tank options.

That said summoner will probably be the class that sucks in all the indecisive players. So it might be one of the most played classes and that might be enough to ensure that people can find tanks or healers a little easier. For a WoW analogy, Summoners will fill the role that Druids do in WoW. They can fill any role but this is going to be determined by their class.

I'd imagine every archetype will have their fans. Considering that Clerics don't have to be healers and the same will probably be true for Tanks. This might draw non healing specced Clerics to heal if they really need to.

delghinn

bloodprophet wrote: »

delghinn wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Let me see if I understand. People want to heal but don't want to be a Cleric...Am I right?

people are concerned there's only one archetype (out of eight) that's a viable healer and every mmorpg that utilizes the trinity have had massive shortages of players interested in healers (and tanks) out of the pool of players.

a simple workaround fix would be to allow for other classes to be able to perform these roles (bard, summoner, ..) and also have both cleric and tank be able to function as dps (when not healing/tanking) so they're not completely pigeonholed into those roles the entire time which would drive up interest.

the core issue is the trinity is busted and games need a more complex, varied, and logical group mechanics however that appears to not be a task anyone has been willing to take on yet.

Many games tried this. Some are popular like GW2.
Everyone is dps. No class interdependency just a bunch of people running around throwing stuff at each other. I read they tried to fix it later and screwed it up worse then it was.
Not interested in Dumpster Fire 3.

that's quite a strawman considering at no point is anyone arguing for every class to function as dps in a group

this issue is there is always soft interest in providing tank or healing for the trinity and limiting one class per for those roles is only going to make matters far worse than what is already common in every other hard trinity game.

having things like a summoner able to tank through a summoned minion, bards able to heal via magical song*, or fun crazy ideas like a necromancer able to heal a group via life drains, pulling power from the nether realm, etc. would allow for a few different archetypes able to provide for those roles and thus a greater pool of players.

*)I like to think of the musical notes forming a shield during the fight against the Shadow King in the Marvel Legion FX TV series.

Orlando2

CaptnChuck wrote: »

In this class poll post, https://www.strawpoll.me/20648367, look at the amount of cleric players.

I don't see any problems there. I can tell you this. Many groups will run with 2 clerics for the obvious reasons.

bloodprophet

delghinn wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

delghinn wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Let me see if I understand. People want to heal but don't want to be a Cleric...Am I right?

people are concerned there's only one archetype (out of eight) that's a viable healer and every mmorpg that utilizes the trinity have had massive shortages of players interested in healers (and tanks) out of the pool of players.

a simple workaround fix would be to allow for other classes to be able to perform these roles (bard, summoner, ..) and also have both cleric and tank be able to function as dps (when not healing/tanking) so they're not completely pigeonholed into those roles the entire time which would drive up interest.

the core issue is the trinity is busted and games need a more complex, varied, and logical group mechanics however that appears to not be a task anyone has been willing to take on yet.

Many games tried this. Some are popular like GW2.
Everyone is dps. No class interdependency just a bunch of people running around throwing stuff at each other. I read they tried to fix it later and screwed it up worse then it was.
Not interested in Dumpster Fire 3.

that's quite a strawman considering at no point is anyone arguing for every class to function as dps in a group

this issue is there is always soft interest in providing tank or healing for the trinity and limiting one class per for those roles is only going to make matters far worse than what is already common in every other hard trinity game.

having things like a summoner able to tank through a summoned minion, bards able to heal via magical song*, or fun crazy ideas like a necromancer able to heal a group via life drains, pulling power from the nether realm, etc. would allow for a few different archetypes able to provide for those roles and thus a greater pool of players.

*)I like to think of the musical notes forming a shield during the fight against the Shadow King in the Marvel Legion FX TV series.

Interesting ideas. Some I like.
Is all personal perception. I like when classes have a hard edge between them. Only time will tell how far the line get blurred between the classes and how much they can serve various roles.
Summoning a creature to act as a tank or vampiric healing sounds like a good idea long as it is a stop gap and not the main roll.

Daedrik45

I just wish people would wait for more class information before we jump the gun. I’m telling you I believe the augments are going to surprise some people. I bet a shaman will be a pretty cool class to heal with and the augments may possible change the animation of spells... I bet when you augment you’ll forget your even playing a cleric.

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