Best anti stunlock system i know

hey first of all my english isnt that good so im not so good with words for explaining

.

i played many games PVE and PVP but the biggest problem with PVP are the stun abilitys.
1 you get stunlocked like in WOW and that kinda sucks for more reasons.
-if you are the locked person you can go afk and its totally anti fun
- some classes will be useless if you cant stunlock because the dmg and defense of this class depends on stun. so if the enemy frees himself you lost 90%

i dont realy like the system where the stuns are getting weaker and weaker because in long groupfights ( 8v8 groups guildfights) it will be a heal/tank meta because if you cant be killed fast enought you will be immun for the rest of the fight because you always get somehow a stun ability so the timer resets.

then i played AoC (Age of Conan) funny Aoc

and i realy loved the anti stun system there.
all CC abilitys were ranked in the art of CC
stun
knockback
knockdown
root
slow
sleep
disoriantated

like this.
then the fight begine and you get stuned you get the full stun duration. BUT you get a buff whitch makes you 100% immun to all other stun abilitys BUT you can still be CC from all other forms of CC and the timer was like 40 sek. if im not mistaken.

this was good for some reasons.
you wasnt able to stunlock killed ( most time) because most classes only had like 2-4 different CC arts. noonw was able to do every form of CC.
a 2v1 was a bit fairer most of the time because a barbar for example had more than 1 stun ability but in a 1v1 its not so useful only for damage but in a 2v1 you could stun both enemys but they still could only stun you 1 time.

and in longer fights you needed to remind witch target was immun to witch CC and the skillcap for that was high in group fights because someone needed to time the group CCs to swap target if CC burst was rdy again after 40 sekends.
and so you never was at a point like yea all CC abilitys are useless now so damage only xD.

the 1v1 skillcap or open world PVP was higher too because you always needed to know the enemy timers and your own. sure they were shown as Buffs but still need to know all icons and still doing your movement/ability etc.

realy like that system in PVP. for PVE its not that usefull. could be turned off in pve so raids are easier to balance.
raidboss with fear should be able to fear you all time not immun^^

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Comments

malarith

Stunlock is the bane of my existence in every MMO I've ever played. I don't understand why it exists or why people think it's enjoyable being able to kill someone without them fighting back. I hope there is diminished returns on CC during PvP.

Caeryl

In arenas I can see it’s value, since everyone needs to have near perfect timing to have a total cc lock.

In open world, diminishing CC durations is planned, and I’d go so far as to want full cc immunity after being hit with more than three cc abilities. I’d also like potions or skills that can make me immune to cc for a duration.

Bot

I'd definitely support a cc-immunity mechanic. Nothing is worse in any game than being cc-locked, especially hard cc. It doesn't have to be long, just enough time that you can actually fight back.

CaptnChuck

AoC is going to have cc reduction so as to prevent the effectiveness of chain cc. As to whether your idea is better than this, I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see.

An alternate idea may be to introduce tenacity, like in league of legends. For those of you who don't know, tenacity reduces the duration of cc. You could implement this as a stat for gear. For eg: Plate gear could have lesser tenacity than cloth/leather gear because of its increased weight.

unphazd

Kusaijshi wrote: »

then i played AoC (Age of Conan) funny Aoc and i realy loved the anti stun system there.
all CC abilitys were ranked in the art of CC
stun
knockback
knockdown
root
slow
sleep
disoriantated

I loved this system too for the reasons you explained, its a shame the game was so buggy. It could have been a winner for its time.

Caeryl wrote: »

In open world, diminishing CC durations is planned, and I’d go so far as to want full cc immunity after being hit with more than three cc abilities. I’d also like potions or skills that can make me immune to cc for a duration.

Yeah it's a must, mmo's creates scenarios where chaining anything can be abused by numbers.

Xenotor

In Ragnarok Online you had a Vitality Stat that gave you i belive +100 HP per point as well as 1% Stun immunity and 1% faster stun recovery.
You however had only limited stat points.
So it was always a trade of Dmg for more suitability.

This could work well in AoC with its Crafting system that allows to craft certain stats.
% Bonus dmg on that Plate chest or % CC resistance.

Choices. Always good to have.

Atama

WoW has pretty much the same system you described for Age of Conan. When you are stunned you get a temporary immunity to further stuns. That wasn’t always the case but it is a change they made a number of years ago. It’s neither novel nor rare, and I hope Ashes implements something similar.

Xyls

Caeryl wrote: »

In arenas I can see it’s value, since everyone needs to have near perfect timing to have a total cc lock.

In open world, diminishing CC durations is planned, and I’d go so far as to want full cc immunity after being hit with more than three cc abilities. I’d also like potions or skills that can make me immune to cc for a duration.

No to CC immunity potions. CC immunity skills, maybe if its very short duration. I think each class will need at least one skill that breaks them out of hard/soft CC.

I think there needs to be a DR system on hard CC, which it sounds like there is. Maybe a different system for soft CC since you can still use your abilities during soft CC.

Kusaijshi

I only player wow classic lately and i was a Rouge. Totally stupid how i was able to stun targets all the time.
Even the reduction on some Cc was useless linke headnut or sheep
1 sheep 30 sekends
2nd sheep 15 sekends....
Useless System bacause Image went out of cobalt and was able to regenerative health with good???????

A 100immunity to 2nd sheep would be much better.

Khronus

Stun locking in a game requires insanely accurate cast times. Diminishing returns makes stunning near useless as the fight drags on. Stunning needs to be a part of any PvP/PvE content but it would not be fun to be completely out of the fight. If you make a game where in PvP your skills are useless after certain uses....it wouldn't be balanced. It's silly to suggest making this game carebear like some of the posts have noted.

I don't consider sheeping something or putting something to sleep "stun locking" because upon taking damage, you are out of it.

Kusaijshi

If you read what i was talking about you would see that the skilles wouldnt be useless in long fights.....

And sheeping someone is very strong if you get out of combat and can heal yourself with food.
And in a 2v2 or 3v3 its Not a CC to turn the 3v3 into a 3v2 for 30 sekends because the 3rd player is running circles as sheep?

Atama

Kusaijshi wrote: »

I only player wow classic lately and i was a Rouge. Totally stupid how i was able to stun targets all the time.
Even the reduction on some Cc was useless linke headnut or sheep
1 sheep 30 sekends
2nd sheep 15 sekends....
Useless System bacause Image went out of cobalt and was able to regenerative health with good???????

A 100immunity to 2nd sheep would be much better.

Yeah, WoW was stupid about how they allowed that stuff. It stinks that in Classic WoW they decided to bring it back. I guess nostalgia for old stuff means nostalgia for broken systems too.

H8edHero

I have always disliked this as well. Without mentioning the name of the game (people who played will know). The best system I have used gives the player immunity for 'X" duration. In that game its 6-7 seconds. Obviously not knowing AoC combat it may need to be longer or shorter.

This keeps being Perma CC'd when out numbered no issue. it also still allows skilled players a burst window by timing their CC's. As well as defensive aide if you are good at keeping your CC's up on cool down in 1v1 scenarios. Not only does the system flow well with combat it eliminates an overly complicated system.

Vhaeyne

I always liked the system Wildstar had. A random WASD prompt would pop up when CCed. You would have to hold the correct key to breakout of CC. It felt more reactive. Like there is something I can be doing that gets me out of CC faster. A reward for paying attention. After a breakout you would be immune from CC for a short time.

They also had a cool interrupt armor system that made it so that teams had to coordinate multiple interrupts instead of just one person handling it. I think in PvP you could pop a item or ability that gave the player a single immunity to the next CC for a very short window.

I never felt like I was going to get chain stunned in Wildstar PvP.

Dreoh

Stunlock mechanics are inherently a net negative on the fun-meter. It's fun to be the stun-locker but insanely frustrating and boring to be the stunned.

I know it's a different Genre, but it's the reason I can't get behind combo fighters and prefer footsie fighting games like Smash or Street Fighter.

When the proficiency of a player depends on how well they can press the right buttons in the right order it's no longer a pvp game, it's a pv-self game, because the player is really only playing against his own ability to press the buttons he memorized instead of reading the other players actions and reacting accordingly.

I frequently refer to combo fighters as "Guitar-hero" fighters because after the initial strike, they're just pressing their memorized buttons, and their success depends on how well they do so.

I know the game has mixed reviews, but I like GW2's combat system for this reason. I know that there's stunlocking that happens in GW2 but it's relatively rare and mostly requires team coordination. GW2 combat is all about short-duration buffs and short-duration negative afflictions so that combat is fast paced and you're always reacting and never reach a point where, "oh X happened and now I know I'm 100% confirmed dead in 10 seconds". In GW2 stuns are short-term and rare. Most CC is done through knockbacks, pulls, dazing / silencing, slows, blinds (next damage instance will miss), etc. and all of these effects are over quick, leaving no time for the player to think, "Ok, I have no agency in this fight now"

Edit: It does look like AoC is going to have a more slower paced combat with classic mechanics, like longer CC's, long DoT's etc. which is fine, but it does need a good way to remove the negativity that comes with, "Oh I got stunned for 10 seconds so I'm actually not really playing the game anymore it's just a snuff film where I'm the main character", or "Oh the warlock put 5 DoT's on me and I have no way to stop the inevitable death that's going to hit me in 12 seconds might as well jump off this cliff"

halbarz

any kind of CC on players should be short, nothing wrong with a 3-sec cripple or a 1-second stun.
Then again I'm also of the opinion that no matter what class you play nobody needs to have 5-6 hard CC's.

A rogue does not need a stun a cripple is more than enough, this can be done with a throwing dagger skill which can be used in stealth.

CC-locking (stun, fear, root, spam) should not be possible, and any kind of CC ability (not slow/cripple) should break stealth giving a debuff that you cannot instantly stealth.

abilities such as a charge on a warrior, blink on a mage, shadowstep on a rogue, etc. should have the ability to CC break or if not CC't, when used, give a few second protection against them

Sheeping is CC as well and frankly should be a trade-off skill. Sheeping someone should remove all other effects and give them a 20% speed boost. This makes it interesting for both players.

drizzt249

Honestly there could be really cool ways to deal with cc lock in game. Classes could get cc break skills, some gear could carry cc break actives(boots that break root, helmet that clears confusion), rng based invulnerability procs on dmg received ( from a legendary necklace). Imagine being able to time cc blocking skills as an enemy is about to use them. For example a cc reflect skill (causing the target to cc himself at a reduced duration), one that cancels target 30% of the time when an opponent uses an attack on you, or you teleport 15 meters when cc”d, maybe reflect all dmg received while cc”d and heal 50 % of it during, Cc evasion with an attack speed boost if a cc is evaded, cc immunity during ultimate evasion skill, Bard could get a group cc cleanse with like a 4 minute cool down, mirror image skill could have the cc hit a clone. The potential mechanics for engaging and immersive, balanced and yet seemingly OP cc mitigating systems are truly limitless. Each class can have a varying skill floor / ceiling if these mechanics are implemented and these can be further augmented by item abilities.

Atama

Dreoh wrote: »

Stunlock mechanics are inherently a net negative on the fun-meter. It's fun to be the stun-locker but insanely frustrating and boring to be the stunned.

I know it's a different Genre, but it's the reason I can't get behind combo fighters and prefer footsie fighting games like Smash or Street Fighter.

When the proficiency of a player depends on how well they can press the right buttons in the right order it's no longer a pvp game, it's a pv-self game, because the player is really only playing against his own ability to press the buttons he memorized instead of reading the other players actions and reacting accordingly.

I frequently refer to combo fighters as "Guitar-hero" fighters because after the initial strike, they're just pressing their memorized buttons, and their success depends on how well they do so.

I'm not going to argue against you here because you have described very well (I think better than I could) the reason why I detest Black Desert Online's combat system, which is possibly the worst I've ever experienced in an MMORPG. I really tried to overlook it because the game is beautiful, the classes are interesting, and I felt like the advancement system made me want to keep going. But the actual gameplay is horrible. You are memorizing button combinations in a particular pattern over and over again to the point where that's all that combat is. Forget positioning, or improvisation, it is a lot like Guitar Hero. Which is fine if I'm playing Guitar Hero but that's not what I want in an MMO.

But I do need to push back against one thing... Any good game is pv-self to an extent. Even an MMO with only the minimum of action style to it should rely on the player being able to act and react properly with the correct timing. I get what you are saying, and I feel your pain and hope we don't see anything like that in AoC. I just had to speak on that one point here.

Dreoh

Atama wrote: »

But I do need to push back against one thing... Any good game is pv-self to an extent. Even an MMO with only the minimum of action style to it should rely on the player being able to act and react properly with the correct timing. I get what you are saying, and I feel your pain and hope we don't see anything like that in AoC. I just had to speak on that one point here.

Oh definitely, I'm not saying we need absolutely 0 combo play, just a well thought out ratio of them. Obviously there's going to be skills like, "place dot" and other abilities that use said dot to do things like transfer dot or spread it or explode it, which is a form of pv-self because you're just pressing buttons based off your own buttons. As long as that's not all you're doing and there's variety it's all good. Moderation is key

Red Eyed XaXa

Make that every class has 1 hard CC and 1 cc break (some can have 2) plus maybe some potions/food effects/buffs that give cc immunity/reduce cc duration. And since the game is balanced on 8v8 it would be the best (imo) to give each 1 hard cc and 1 cc break plus supports can remove ccs and tanks have 2 hard ccs.

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