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Please Let Us Gift Something AoC!!!
Beck Altarr
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
An open Video to @StevenSharif and Intrepid Studios.
For those who don't watch the video:
Please allow for a system where Content Creators can gift cosmetics we buy from the store or even beta keys so that we can give back to those who support us. As a content creator I am supported by viewers and I want to give back in the form of give aways/contests that are AoC related and not giving away other games or unrelated items.
You can Watch the 6 minute video here.
Additional Edit: Because people keep focusing on the Store gifting which is only 1 example and isn't even the point of the post/video I am adding this.
The point is to have something AoC related creators can give our supporters in appreciation for the content we make that is AoC. If I am playing Minecraft I can give away Minecraft stuff. If I am streaming Fall guys I can gift Fall Guys to viewers. That is my point. It's not about asking/getting free stuff. I am more than happy to buy it from AoC to help support the game too.
It could be Desktop Wall Papers that are unique or something of that nature. This has nothing to do with RMT. This is a request for Creators only. Creators, smart ones, are NOT going to engage in RMT and risk their AoC accounts and Twitch Accounts for cheating.
For those who don't watch the video:
Please allow for a system where Content Creators can gift cosmetics we buy from the store or even beta keys so that we can give back to those who support us. As a content creator I am supported by viewers and I want to give back in the form of give aways/contests that are AoC related and not giving away other games or unrelated items.
You can Watch the 6 minute video here.
Additional Edit: Because people keep focusing on the Store gifting which is only 1 example and isn't even the point of the post/video I am adding this.
The point is to have something AoC related creators can give our supporters in appreciation for the content we make that is AoC. If I am playing Minecraft I can give away Minecraft stuff. If I am streaming Fall guys I can gift Fall Guys to viewers. That is my point. It's not about asking/getting free stuff. I am more than happy to buy it from AoC to help support the game too.
It could be Desktop Wall Papers that are unique or something of that nature. This has nothing to do with RMT. This is a request for Creators only. Creators, smart ones, are NOT going to engage in RMT and risk their AoC accounts and Twitch Accounts for cheating.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
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Comments
That's a very good point. Irl money and ingame money should at no point become connected.
I think at that point there would need to be some other kind of system in place where we as creators can still show our support to our communities. If my content is primarily AoC content by launch, the last thing I should be doing is giving away copies of Fall Guys or some like game or non-AoC related stuff.
If you limit it to ONLY creators, it would be pretty easy to track who may be abusing the process to do what you are concerned about as well.
Hopefully by then they will have Gift Cards for their shop or something where it would be pointless for someone to pay someone else real money for something they can purchase them selves. A gift card that would be able to be used for the MMO and for the Battle Royale in addition to any other properties they bring online.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
It would be cool if community managers could build some kind of cooperation system that would vet, overlook and support content creators in those kinds of efforts.
Cosmetics isn't P2W. The nature of Cosmetics is that it changes nothing in the way of power rating or abilities.
The reasonable concern is just people running a marketplace out side of the game to earn in game gold buy buying people stuff out side of the game, and even the gold isn't going to give that much advantage if everything also requires other materials. Sure you could buy more stuff in an auction house, but that's not really P2W either as some people will farm more than others and amass a lot of gold through legit means.
Eventually everyone gets to end game. In an MMO there is no "winning the game" because it never really ends.
I'm not excusing it, but I think the concern is over blown. There should be checks and balances in place to prevent those things but understand they will happen regardless. Someone will find the flaw in the system.
It's like Multi-boxing. If they say it's not allowed, it wont stop people from doing it and getting around any measures they have in place to prevent it. It's just part of the culture of online gaming.
Now on a broad scale where everyone could do it, yes it would be much easier to abuse. I would like to think a content creator who has a special permission to do this wouldn't want to risk losing their account and I know Twitch would also likely ban the creator account for cheating as well. Why risk making a few bucks only to lose your channel and account where you are likely making more from your supporters?
Chances are creators will get gifts of gold from supporters as well who maybe don't have the cash to pay for a Twitch Sub. What kind of in game auditing will there be for that? If a player earns gold through legit means and then gifts 1000g to someone with no other in game exchange will that be flagged immediately as suspicious or will it take into account that the person gifted the gold was a creator or guild leader and would have some kind of exemption?
This would make for a great topic for my show on Sunday... lol
My request doesn't even have to be giving cosmetics in game. It's about ANYTHING I as a creator can do to show my appreciation for my subs and followers that would ALSO support AoC.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
Spend $10 for a skin. Gift it to Joe. Meet Joe in the game. He hands you 100 gold pieces. You spend those gold pieces on a new war hammer. You just bought an in-game upgrade for $10 real life cash. This isn’t even me being paranoid, that is the reason why Intrepid doesn’t allow gifting.
Sure, gold selling can’t ever be stopped, but Intrepid doesn’t want to do anything to make it easier. This is a years-old topic by the way.
If you do limit this sort of thing to certain people who have a special relationship with Intrepid they might be more open to it. It reminds me of when game companies and provide certain communities with codes that can be redeemed for virtual items. And maybe that’s a better way to go about this; rather than having you buy stuff from the shop that you gift to people directly, you have a certain number of codes you can give to fans who then redeem them on the web site for cosmetics.
This is something I suggested in my video.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
No card. No code. No transfer. No value. If they haven’t created an account by now, they shouldn’t be entering a giveaway for the game.
In fact, you could relay the account names to intrepid staff, who then “redeem” the codes for those who won.
Simple. Clean. Abuseless.
I am not so keen on content creators being able to buy off the cash shop and gifting.
I know the program is currently under remodeling and will undergo changes so perhaps you will be able to know more when the new guidelines are published.
That's the problem is none of us know who is or how to be an official content creator.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
Feel free to explain so we have context for your opinion. Can't have much of a discussion otherwise.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
I don't want cosmetic items that can be purchased from the market to be transferable... because it is in a way a transfer of money for potentially something in-game.[30] – Steven Sharif
I think being able to give keys to folks for cosmetics would get around the issue.
Unfortunately the only easy way to fix this, is a process that creates a lot of work for Intrepid.
The easy way is to have a system where codes can be given and redeemed. Takes a few hours to set up this system (which Intrepid already has) and then its off to the races.
The only way this functions is if players give the Content Creator their either account name or their email address, and the creator forwards it through to the company and the company awards them. This creates problems because a lot of people don't want to give creators their credentials for risk of losing their account, but its the only way to ensure the stuff goes on the account that won, and doesn't end up on Ebay.
If the player doesn't trust the content creator with their information in the first place, they probably wouldn't be entering the giveaway for the same reason.
And either way, the trust has to be given. Either the Game Developers give trust to Content Creators/Players, or trust is given by Players/Content Creators to the Game Developers. That is how you forgo the middle man market.
I believe the trust should be given by the players, in exchange for the potentiality of getting a rare, unique, or sort after item/access. There is no value of exchange for the Game Developers to give trust to the Content Creators/Players, which makes that option a moot point.
It really depends on if the Game Developers want to give trust to content creators to divvy out the rewards, or if they want to have sole discretion of who, what, and how certain things are given.
If they do not trust their content creators to manage the rewards for fear of abuse, they could do it themselves and verify. It just depends on their degree of paranoia.
How would it get around the issue? It just reinforced the issue. At this point you might as well make the cosmetics tradeable in game, as it open doors to p2w and RMT.
Creators that have been vetted by Intrepid could have a "buying for someone else" option in the cash shop. You input the account ID of the player you are gifting to and proceed with the purchased.
At that point that account receive the cosmetic and is stuck with it.
PvX Focused & Competitive European Guild
Join the HIM Discord - https://discord.gg/ZWA3swE
As some have pointed out this is a discussion had for years. I would like to correct you that in the context in which I am putting it, it has not.
I think many of you did not watch the video or do not understand what I was saying. I used two examples, but in the video I say I just want to give something back to my community of supporters that's AoC related and not giving away competing games/items.
My context is for creators only. If IS/SS can't trust their creators then why bother with any kind of "offical" creator status? Yes, somewhere down the line some one will break that trust. Just as in life the people in our lives at some point break our trust or make us mad etc. Life isn't perfect. But one creator who break the trust vs the likely tens to hundreds shouldn't set a standard.
A lot of you have this "RMT" fear. It's going to happen at some point. Either buying items crafted or dropped in raids, because they are not BoP or Soul bound it is likely to encourage a black market system of buying and selling the items for cash with very little gold in game exchanged or vice versa a weapon of little value will be sold for a lot of gold as a cover for the cash exchange out side of the game.
My point is, many of you are crapping on something positive knowing that regardless of my wanting to simply reward and thank the people who support me with AoC related stuff everything you are afraid of is going to happen anyway and there is no real way to stop it.
My request recognizes that these things will happen and is putting faith in content creators to mostly do the right thing and not sell/abuse the gifting system. If you look at the entirety of my request it doesn't even need to involve gifting from the shop. It can be ANYTHING that AoC would provide that I could then use to show my appreciation to my supporters as a creator. I only gave two examples because those are the two most common ideas most people would have.
As people have pointed out in my stream - Azmongold get's stupid amounts of Gold given to him in wow. As a content creator our supporters are likely to gift us gold and items as well in game. How do you reconcile that?
I fully plan on doing Phoenix Radio and stream contests in game with Gold/Items as prizes. Am I going to get banned for that? If people donate to the radio to help cover its costs or donate to my stream or give bits or subs do they now have to be exempt from ever winning a prize?
I'm sorry to all the "RMT" purists but you gotta be real and understand as long as in game currency and items are trade able people will pay cash out side of game for them and someone will create a system to exploit that.
Now for the Pay to Win argument. That's bunk. This is an MMO. There is no winning. There is only end game and you can buy all the best gear and still suck at the game. With players being able to craft on par items with boss drops the value of those "end game" items drops a lot. With very limited BoP/Soul Bound there will be a lot of hand me down items from higher tier players to the lower ones.
Buying Gold, for example, does nothing to "win" faster. It just means you have some gear you may not other wise had and it doesn't make you better at the game. A player could get a random drop of a legendary item and put it up in the Auction House and sell it for oodles of gold. Now they buy all the best gear they can. How is that any different? What do they Win?
I get that there is a risk to the economy, but every economy has a black market and those black markets also drive the economy. How much of the U.S. Economy is supported by selling weapons and military equipment over seas to the middle east? My bet is Trillions. Selling to the same people who would kill Americans, but the hope is they will use those things to kill each other. Sad truths kids. That's how it happens.
Because PVP and PvE gear are one in the same, there is no advantage to buying a set that you otherwise couldn't earn through PvE or PvP. No pay to win mechanic there. It comes down to your skill. If you suck, the best gear might let you last an extra blow or two, but you're still going to die.
Even IF people were to abuse the COSMETIC gifting system... AoC still makes their money off the gift shop and all that happened in game is one person gave another person gold. AoC is the winner because their cash shop is earning them money. As mentioned the items that gold may buy are going to be bought by someone anyway. You are not creating or removing or doing anything from the game that isn't already going to happen.
The ONLY Pay to Win Mechanic is paying your $15/m and getting good at the game over time. That't it.
Again this is on the grand palate of having any kind of gifting system and that is not exclusively what I am asking for. I am asking for some means to show my appreciation and thanks to my community of supporters who are following me because of my AoC content with something AoC related.
I shouldn't be giving out gifts of other games, competitors. It's a missed marketing opportunity, especially now with the most current hype train. It won't last for ever. With 2 years to go it's going to go from the current boil to a simmer in a few months. Even with Alpha 1, it won't reignite the same as what Lazy peon's video did because the majority of new followers to AoC are already here and those who lose interest will be hard to bring back. Alphas are buggy and glitchy and that will lose people as well who don't completely understand the concept of Alpha thanks to Early Access games that release alpha builds but don't call them alphas. They are just broken betas.
Beta's would likely be the next big wave of new people, there is always a cooling off between hypes, you can't sustain a hype train for long, its like the conservation of energy.
Having creators having the ability to do something that is AoC related that helps maintain interest in the game for those who are potential players/community people is smart marketing. If people have something attached to their account that they won via a creator they are more likely to keep coming back or remember they have something when the game launches to check out. If an account is just an account, there is no value to it and it's easily left and forgotten. Taking up space in a data base.
RMT is debunked as far as I am concerned with AoC. There is no Pay to Win because there is no Way to win. Especially when this game is more group centric. Unless something like Method from WoW happens where an entire guild is involved with buying gold to pay for runs to get world first titles... It's just not that big of an issue for AoC.
Love a good story and lore.
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Sorry but I can’t get behind that. That is a pretty weak argument and the reasoning is lackluster in your approach.
I have no issues and even support the idea of content creators giving back to the community. But it doesn’t have to be haphazard in approach.
I know you want something AoC related to keep fans interested in AoC. But there is an avenue of paying to win if an item is tradable or used codes. It has intrinsic value at that point and can be traded for other items, which will make it easier to level faster. Or potentially help guilds fund up for assaulting node locations or castles.
That is Paying to Win. Winning is anyone getting an edge. And being able to pay for it through whatever means is a dangerous avenue to endorse. Especially when there are harmless alternatives explained earlier.
So I’m not sure what your end goal is. If it’s AoC items for fans, then make it account locked and avoid RMT abuse easy. If it is beta access, again why do anything except account locking. If it’s giving Content Creators extra perks or access or something...
Shouldn’t you be a content creator because you like the game, and not because of what you can get/wield from it? It shouldn’t be a popularity contest.
As long as there is Items and currency that can be traded in game between players there will be RMT.
I think the best defense against it is what AoC is doing. The best gear will be more common than in other games because it will not be BoP/Soul Bound for the most part. That will take out a lot of the Supply and Demand high prices we see in other games. That will reduce the artificial inflation of AH prices. Thus reducing the need for anyone to need to buy gold to buy it.
Your examples are at the Guild level. You say it yourself That becomes like what Method did in WoW. I thought I made my thoughts on that clear. In the situation of a Creators Only system, that should never happen or even be possible. Your comment is trying to move the goal posts. Another common tactic I have seen people try to do in this topic.
There is no way to make anything account locked with out there being a risk of RMT. That's why I specifically said a Creator Only System. It's limited, easy to track and trace and if someone is abusing the system it would be easier to catch because it would be more obvious. That's why I can come out and say that the over all fears of RMT under a Creator system is bunk. It's fake news. It's unrealistic fears. So far no one has made any argument that says RMT is too much of a risk with a creators only system.
Also, I have said MULTIPLE TIMES, it doesn't have to be gifting anything. I'm asking for something that I can do that is AoC related. Rather than giving away non-related stuff that I am ALREADY doing.
If this was for a system where anyone could gift to anyone else then I would 100% agree it's a bad idea. For some reason most of the comments here that are against my request are ONLY arguing from the point of view of EVERYONE can do this. This is people trying to twist my words and intent. It's like a politician answering the question they wished they were asked and not the actual question.
And you sum up the true ignorance of most of the comments because this is the true feeling you want to project on to me, despite EVERYTHING I have said and frankly I'm insulted.
I HAVE NEVER ONCE IMPLIED ANYTHING OF THE SORT. This actually pissed me off. Every comment I have made is about me wanting to show my appreciation to my supporters, something I already do and will continue to do. Not once have I said anything about a popularity contest. That's just ignorant to say on your part.
Go back. Watch the video, read my comments. That type of negativity is sadly too prevalent around here. It's actually quite shocking how subversively negative a lot of the comments/community on this forum is.
My thoughts were to create a more POSITIVE experience for people in support of AoC.
I am creating content because I enjoy it. People who support me as a content creator I am VERY appreciative of. I would like to show my appreciation. I ALREADY DO THIS BY GIVING AWAY GIFT CARDS AND GAMES!!!
My request is about having AoC related stuff because I am creating AoC content. If I am playing a different game, like fall guys, I should give away fall guys. If I am playing Minecraft I should give away Minecraft stuff. Savvy?
It doesn't make ANY sense that I am gifting OTHER Games and stuff to people. That's like me giving my customers a gift card to a competitor in appreciation for hiring my services. It's antithetical to any business model. That's my point. That's the entirety of my point.
I am still going to give my supporters the chance to win stuff in appreciation for supporting me. It's either going to be AoC stuff or other stuff about other games or whatever else I decide to make available for them to win via participation contests. It has nothing to do with being popular and it has nothing to do with what I can get from it. I have not once asked for ANYTHING free. I stated VERY clearly I want to pay for these things because it also helps support the game and it's development. I am NOT looking for any hand outs and I am insulted and offended you or anyone else would even suggest such a thing. I have integrity.
I can only imagine the whinging of people who think, similar to you, when people are gifting me in game gold and items and I am giving it away doing in game contest via Phoenix Radio. How is that any different? Is that not giving people an "advantage"?
Azmongold get's given insane amounts of Gold in WoW. We can expect the same thing in AoC. How is that not giving someone an "advantage"? He's technically trading his stream content/entertainment out side of game for in game gold... How are you going to reconcile that? I asked this before and you didn't address it at all. You are selectively trying to pick apart my comments and take them out of context with your own replies.
You said it yourself So should I be banned if I give away 1000g in a contest because someone is listening to the Radio out side of game? What about people who donate to the radio to support it, or buy merch and then also win one of the contests in game? What if someone wins a Epic Hammer! OMG it's RMT!!!!!
Where does it end?
To bring it back to my ORIGINAL Video: I am looking for ANYTHING AoC related I can do to show appreciation to those who support me. (That would be the people who already think I'm cool and should be one of the popular kids)
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
This is essentially what WoW does for their Betas. CCs get a set number of people they can flag for a Beta key and Blizzard will go and upgrade the accounts.
I like the spirit of the idea for a giveaway, but I don't think anything that the Creator buys from the store is the right pick.
Maybe something like AoC branded swag can be used in giveaways. Even game time sits better w/ me than anything from the in game store.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
You want to reward your viewers, give them your content.