Hystorix wrote: » Too short for me would like to see closer to 500 hours which would be around 3 months for the hardcore up to a year for casuals like myself
cleansingtotem wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Leroher wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling. Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content. Jagaro wrote: » 45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal. How do you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay with leveling? “How you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay?” is the question you’re actually asking. And the answer is simple Step one: Stop thinking of gameplay before max lvl as a chore Step two: Actually put forth some effort to get into the world lore, read the quests, experience the game. The fault here stems entirely from people thinking of quests as a hassle to overcome, instead of part of the game. The game can’t fix a faulty mindset. You did not answer the question. What new and exciting features is this game bringing to make the majority of players want to have a leveling process that takes 45+days? This is one of the dumber questions, but alright. This “new” feature is... drumroll please... engaging gameplay. That’s it. The game just has to be enjoyable to play. The quests should be well-written, have some memorable moments, and not be too dull. The world should be interesting, with many things to find and get into. The combat should feel good, it should be varied, strategic and not too slow while it asks the player to pay attention. The rewards should be varied for all sorts of gameplay paths, and each be desirable in their own way. None of those things have any level requirements to be true. A quest tuned for level 5s can be more meaningful than a quest tuned for level 50s. A dungeon done at level 10 can have as many nooks and crannies to explore as a level 50 dungeon, it can even have comparable skill requirements. The economics game has no level demands, just requires patience and time. The crafting gameplay has no significant level demands. The world is neither locked off nor segmented based on levels, you can go wherever you want, and if you have the skill and patience you can even go most places successfully. Nothing quite beats the feeling of finding skulls instead of levels, and killing one of them. As I said before, your problems with leveling stems from a faulty mindset that the game can’t be enjoyable until max level. Nothing the game has or does not have can a fix a problem that you made for yourself. At level 1, you can start down any path or profession you like. If you enjoy combat, pick up combat quests or simply go out into the world and slay creatures and men. If you enjoy PvP, find a military node and start gathering like minds to defend or attack caravans. If you enjoy crafting, start gathering, start socializing and start finding a steady supply of resources and buyers. If all you wanna do is play house, well, you probably should start figuring out how to run the nearby markets so you have money to buy all those shiny cosmetic items from crafters. So "good game" is your answer? Got it. But that still does not answer my question. And the problem is ashes has two options I'll just add that tight rope ashes is walking is thin, to say the least. Because what I see on these forums so far is the same short sightedness I have seen with so many other MMO's. Simply questions about the game are viewed as an attack on it, and those questions end up mattering. So asking what is going to make ma Hystorix wrote: » Too short for me would like to see closer to 500 hours which would be around 3 months for the hardcore up to a year for casuals like myself What % of people do you think hit max level with your idea?
Caeryl wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Leroher wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling. Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content. Jagaro wrote: » 45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal. How do you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay with leveling? “How you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay?” is the question you’re actually asking. And the answer is simple Step one: Stop thinking of gameplay before max lvl as a chore Step two: Actually put forth some effort to get into the world lore, read the quests, experience the game. The fault here stems entirely from people thinking of quests as a hassle to overcome, instead of part of the game. The game can’t fix a faulty mindset. You did not answer the question. What new and exciting features is this game bringing to make the majority of players want to have a leveling process that takes 45+days? This is one of the dumber questions, but alright. This “new” feature is... drumroll please... engaging gameplay. That’s it. The game just has to be enjoyable to play. The quests should be well-written, have some memorable moments, and not be too dull. The world should be interesting, with many things to find and get into. The combat should feel good, it should be varied, strategic and not too slow while it asks the player to pay attention. The rewards should be varied for all sorts of gameplay paths, and each be desirable in their own way. None of those things have any level requirements to be true. A quest tuned for level 5s can be more meaningful than a quest tuned for level 50s. A dungeon done at level 10 can have as many nooks and crannies to explore as a level 50 dungeon, it can even have comparable skill requirements. The economics game has no level demands, just requires patience and time. The crafting gameplay has no significant level demands. The world is neither locked off nor segmented based on levels, you can go wherever you want, and if you have the skill and patience you can even go most places successfully. Nothing quite beats the feeling of finding skulls instead of levels, and killing one of them. As I said before, your problems with leveling stems from a faulty mindset that the game can’t be enjoyable until max level. Nothing the game has or does not have can a fix a problem that you made for yourself. At level 1, you can start down any path or profession you like. If you enjoy combat, pick up combat quests or simply go out into the world and slay creatures and men. If you enjoy PvP, find a military node and start gathering like minds to defend or attack caravans. If you enjoy crafting, start gathering, start socializing and start finding a steady supply of resources and buyers. If all you wanna do is play house, well, you probably should start figuring out how to run the nearby markets so you have money to buy all those shiny cosmetic items from crafters.
cleansingtotem wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Leroher wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling. Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content. Jagaro wrote: » 45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal. How do you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay with leveling? “How you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay?” is the question you’re actually asking. And the answer is simple Step one: Stop thinking of gameplay before max lvl as a chore Step two: Actually put forth some effort to get into the world lore, read the quests, experience the game. The fault here stems entirely from people thinking of quests as a hassle to overcome, instead of part of the game. The game can’t fix a faulty mindset. You did not answer the question. What new and exciting features is this game bringing to make the majority of players want to have a leveling process that takes 45+days?
Caeryl wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Leroher wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling. Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content. Jagaro wrote: » 45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal. How do you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay with leveling? “How you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay?” is the question you’re actually asking. And the answer is simple Step one: Stop thinking of gameplay before max lvl as a chore Step two: Actually put forth some effort to get into the world lore, read the quests, experience the game. The fault here stems entirely from people thinking of quests as a hassle to overcome, instead of part of the game. The game can’t fix a faulty mindset.
cleansingtotem wrote: » Leroher wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling. Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content. Jagaro wrote: » 45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal. How do you get 45 days of meaningful gameplay with leveling?
Leroher wrote: » cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling. Good point there, but in my case, I complain about max lvl content being the only thing enjoyable in the game. Usually leveling up is a mean to enjoy the game, which you do at max lvl, and I hope IS makes leveling up nearly as much enjoyable as max lvl content.
cleansingtotem wrote: » Side note, for all the people who complain about end game at max level being too important, explain how you go about fixing that without destroying the entire concept of leveling.
Jagaro wrote: » 45 days of meaningful gameplay would be ideal.
Celestial Scythe wrote: » To me it feels a bit on the long side. But at the same time, I'd be lucky if I can get 1-2 hr every day. I know that with the idea of nodes building rather quickly, difficult monsters and raids will pop up frequently. So getting players to the level in which they can participate quickly I feel would be more enjoyable.
Elistriell wrote: » Celestial Scythe wrote: » To me it feels a bit on the long side. But at the same time, I'd be lucky if I can get 1-2 hr every day. I know that with the idea of nodes building rather quickly, difficult monsters and raids will pop up frequently. So getting players to the level in which they can participate quickly I feel would be more enjoyable. Yeah, I popped in to say this, too. It may or may not be on the long side, but there seems to be this overwhelming majority of people in this thread who believe the time you spend in a game indicates your interest in said game. Even still, that 4-6 hours a day is totally reasonable and expected! Do you guys not have jobs, clean homes, and spouses/pets who need your attention? I put in 40-60 hours a week at work. Most days I don't even see my computer. But I love the fuck out of my games and when I can, I am glad to fully immerse myself in the game world, even if only for a few hours on the weekend. My favorite part of MMORPGs is to fully involve myself in crafting and the economy, studying market trends, my guildmates' needs, and burying myself in spreadsheets. My lack of time doesn't hold me back from opening my wallet for the game, either. Does the fact that I'm an adult mean I'm a casual? Christ, I'm not even 30 yet!
Warth wrote: » Elistriell wrote: » Celestial Scythe wrote: » To me it feels a bit on the long side. But at the same time, I'd be lucky if I can get 1-2 hr every day. I know that with the idea of nodes building rather quickly, difficult monsters and raids will pop up frequently. So getting players to the level in which they can participate quickly I feel would be more enjoyable. Yeah, I popped in to say this, too. It may or may not be on the long side, but there seems to be this overwhelming majority of people in this thread who believe the time you spend in a game indicates your interest in said game. Even still, that 4-6 hours a day is totally reasonable and expected! Do you guys not have jobs, clean homes, and spouses/pets who need your attention? I put in 40-60 hours a week at work. Most days I don't even see my computer. But I love the fuck out of my games and when I can, I am glad to fully immerse myself in the game world, even if only for a few hours on the weekend. My favorite part of MMORPGs is to fully involve myself in crafting and the economy, studying market trends, my guildmates' needs, and burying myself in spreadsheets. My lack of time doesn't hold me back from opening my wallet for the game, either. Does the fact that I'm an adult mean I'm a casual? Christ, I'm not even 30 yet! So why is reaching "max level" that important in the first place? If the content pre-level 50 is enjoyable, then it doesn't matter whether the casual player is 38 or 50. Nobody requires you to play 4-6 hours a day, just take it at your own pace.
Leroher wrote: » Warth wrote: » Elistriell wrote: » Celestial Scythe wrote: » To me it feels a bit on the long side. But at the same time, I'd be lucky if I can get 1-2 hr every day. I know that with the idea of nodes building rather quickly, difficult monsters and raids will pop up frequently. So getting players to the level in which they can participate quickly I feel would be more enjoyable. Yeah, I popped in to say this, too. It may or may not be on the long side, but there seems to be this overwhelming majority of people in this thread who believe the time you spend in a game indicates your interest in said game. Even still, that 4-6 hours a day is totally reasonable and expected! Do you guys not have jobs, clean homes, and spouses/pets who need your attention? I put in 40-60 hours a week at work. Most days I don't even see my computer. But I love the fuck out of my games and when I can, I am glad to fully immerse myself in the game world, even if only for a few hours on the weekend. My favorite part of MMORPGs is to fully involve myself in crafting and the economy, studying market trends, my guildmates' needs, and burying myself in spreadsheets. My lack of time doesn't hold me back from opening my wallet for the game, either. Does the fact that I'm an adult mean I'm a casual? Christ, I'm not even 30 yet! So why is reaching "max level" that important in the first place? If the content pre-level 50 is enjoyable, then it doesn't matter whether the casual player is 38 or 50. Nobody requires you to play 4-6 hours a day, just take it at your own pace. But here I get what @Elistriell means, and I agree a bit. He says he doesn't have much time to play so he won't hit max lvl at the same time of the rest of the people. And that's ok, but having the game everything mixed, maybe he won't enjoy as much some things because of that difference. Even with that, he will enjoy the game a lot, pre lvl 50 and at max lvl, but if to reach max lvl takes 400 hours and not 225, because of his work/family/whatever, he will hit max lvl several months after us, and maybe the constant PvP with nodes sieges, caravans and enemy guilds won't be that fun because he will be lvl 27 and the others lvl 50.
Sangramoire wrote: » It's difficult to cater a game to every single person, so wouldn't that just mean this is not the game for him? It's a decision developers will have to make, should they cater to players that will play the game 2 hours a week or to players that will play it 20 hours a week? Can they really cater to both? I don't think they can cater to both in all aspects and this is one of those aspects of the game they can't.
Sangramoire wrote: » Leroher wrote: » Warth wrote: » Elistriell wrote: » Celestial Scythe wrote: » To me it feels a bit on the long side. But at the same time, I'd be lucky if I can get 1-2 hr every day. I know that with the idea of nodes building rather quickly, difficult monsters and raids will pop up frequently. So getting players to the level in which they can participate quickly I feel would be more enjoyable. Yeah, I popped in to say this, too. It may or may not be on the long side, but there seems to be this overwhelming majority of people in this thread who believe the time you spend in a game indicates your interest in said game. Even still, that 4-6 hours a day is totally reasonable and expected! Do you guys not have jobs, clean homes, and spouses/pets who need your attention? I put in 40-60 hours a week at work. Most days I don't even see my computer. But I love the fuck out of my games and when I can, I am glad to fully immerse myself in the game world, even if only for a few hours on the weekend. My favorite part of MMORPGs is to fully involve myself in crafting and the economy, studying market trends, my guildmates' needs, and burying myself in spreadsheets. My lack of time doesn't hold me back from opening my wallet for the game, either. Does the fact that I'm an adult mean I'm a casual? Christ, I'm not even 30 yet! So why is reaching "max level" that important in the first place? If the content pre-level 50 is enjoyable, then it doesn't matter whether the casual player is 38 or 50. Nobody requires you to play 4-6 hours a day, just take it at your own pace. But here I get what @Elistriell means, and I agree a bit. He says he doesn't have much time to play so he won't hit max lvl at the same time of the rest of the people. And that's ok, but having the game everything mixed, maybe he won't enjoy as much some things because of that difference. Even with that, he will enjoy the game a lot, pre lvl 50 and at max lvl, but if to reach max lvl takes 400 hours and not 225, because of his work/family/whatever, he will hit max lvl several months after us, and maybe the constant PvP with nodes sieges, caravans and enemy guilds won't be that fun because he will be lvl 27 and the others lvl 50. It's difficult to cater a game to every single person, so wouldn't that just mean this is not the game for him? It's a decision developers will have to make, should they cater to players that will play the game 2 hours a week or to players that will play it 20 hours a week? Can they really cater to both? I don't think they can cater to both in all aspects and this is one of those aspects of the game they can't.
Elistriell wrote: » Sangramoire wrote: » It's difficult to cater a game to every single person, so wouldn't that just mean this is not the game for him? It's a decision developers will have to make, should they cater to players that will play the game 2 hours a week or to players that will play it 20 hours a week? Can they really cater to both? I don't think they can cater to both in all aspects and this is one of those aspects of the game they can't. I get that. My question is, I don't know, shouldn't most people have jobs? Don't most people have significant others and a place they live that needs to be cleaned? Food that needs to be cooked? Pets that need to be cared for? I'd find it hard to believe I'm a minority, because if you cut those people out, you'd be cutting out everyone who's graduated school, I'd think. (sorry for the double-post: I was posting while you responded. I have to head into work now though, so I'm out of this discussion for the day)
George Black wrote: » I would like to see it at 90 days. People just dont seem to understand that it's the journey that matters.
Warth wrote: » Elistriell wrote: » Sangramoire wrote: » It's difficult to cater a game to every single person, so wouldn't that just mean this is not the game for him? It's a decision developers will have to make, should they cater to players that will play the game 2 hours a week or to players that will play it 20 hours a week? Can they really cater to both? I don't think they can cater to both in all aspects and this is one of those aspects of the game they can't. I get that. My question is, I don't know, shouldn't most people have jobs? Don't most people have significant others and a place they live that needs to be cleaned? Food that needs to be cooked? Pets that need to be cared for? I'd find it hard to believe I'm a minority, because if you cut those people out, you'd be cutting out everyone who's graduated school, I'd think. (sorry for the double-post: I was posting while you responded. I have to head into work now though, so I'm out of this discussion for the day) Most people do have jobs. Most people do have significant other commitments. However, nobody is cutting them out like you are proclaiming. Nobody is cutting out anybody. It's your own conception, that tell you, that you need to reach Level 50 for some weird reason. If you take 180 days instead of 45, then so be it. The whole mindset behind "I have to be Max Level to enjoy the game" is a cancer originating from Themepark MMOs like WoW and FFXIV. In sandbox heavier MMOs, like Archeage, like AoC, like EvE, most content isn't locked behind an arbitrary number (your Level). Most content within the game is accessible by a Level 27, the same way it is a accessible by a Level 50, you just tend to do it at a smaller scale. It doesn't matter how long it takes to reach max level, as long as the journey there is interesting, fun and engaging.
Elistriell wrote: » ...But this game is massively PvP and competition heavy. There are consequences attached to every death, even when minding your own business. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a lower leveled player is at a significant disadvantage every time they log in if they're behind the rest of the pack? If I'm missing something, please let me know. Perhaps it would depend somewhat on how many players start at launch vs how many continue entering the game over time. Maybe there won't be a "pack" if there's a continued influx of new players. It's hard to say, I think. And then there's the mentality that you discussed. Wherever it came from, it's there, and it will probably exist here, too. We've already heard a ton about exclusion over gear and dps, do you really think level exclusion won't be a thing? (and a small correction as I've been called he a few times, last I checked I was a woman >.> )
