DPS Meter Megathread

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Tragnar

Funny thing in wow is that you can get kicked from group just because you play worse spec of that class - with the current patch fire mages are stupidly overpowered so everyone just ignore frost mages.

However this is not the fault of meters or combat logs that found out precisely how overpowered fire mage is, but the instant teleport system and ease of finding any individual across servers to join.

If you do not allow instant travel and force players to work with players that are near them than from this necessity you will see the exclusion happen much less frequently. It is almost stupid to not take literally only the best people into dungeons if you can instantinuously teleport them there and you can choose from dozens of applicants after listing the group in any automated finding system.

The whole idea of not allowing dps meters is based on emotional personal experience without listing any facts that might indicate the causality of dps meters on the exclusion of players. Exclusion happens if you can choose between enormous amount of applicants and even then the exclussion is based on meta builds not on the actual performance in dps meter (for example shaman in the last wow expansion was bad on launch but they are not invited into groups even now when they can easily destroy the meters). Community perception of meta is not based in facts, dps meters is actually the only force to steer the meta toward builds that are factually good.

I have no problem with looking at meters as on a driving license. You want cars to be driven by people knowledgeable to operate them. The same can be said for dps meters if you let some dumbass dictate group rules even though if he does not understand what are the responsibilities of certain classes in there then you should take away meters from that guy.

People die in car accidents, but we do not stop driving, we make sure that people driving are responsible. That same should be done with meters, to make sure that people that have access to them are educated enough to use them properly.

Noaani

Tragnar wrote: »

However this is not the fault of meters or combat logs that found out precisely how overpowered fire mage is, but the instant teleport system and ease of finding any individual across servers to join.

Indeed.

The system that is going to see more people kicked from groups in this game than anything will be the family summons. It would be foolish and naive to think that there won't be many cases of people starting groups before their friend gets on, and then when said friend logs in, kicking someone from the group and summoning the friend to join. This is no reason to not have that system in the gmae if it can be added in a good way, but it would be foolish to assume this isn't going to happen often.

The part about this that I am going to find most amusing is that - since third party trackers absolutely will be a thing in Ashes - people are still going to blame combat trackers when this happens.

Steven probably will too.

Tragnar

Tbh I have not wanted to think about family summons, because it looks like a bad joke from the start. You just cannot have such a system and not devalue the travel in the game.

People in guilds will have an alt parked in their node centre and reloging to summon anyone for either gold or guildies for convenience.

Edit:
The only way to not encourage this behavior is to give portals and instant travel to anyone

Demidreamer

Make the CD much longer problem fixed wtih family summoning. You'll still have to walk back with whatever you found.
If your running a third party tracker, you better keep said information to yourself. I dont want a game that has everything exposed within the first month. If you do expose the fact that you have a tracker i hope you get your IP banned. You would be taking the fun out of the game for people who want to experience the game fully, for the first time. Damage meters are still a tool. I've seen many posts about how bosses are lame and tactics too easy, prolly wouldn't be the case if your entire raid wasn't mashing on the I WIN buttons.
I think the game will have more meaning w/o meters. Like its a game , sure you want to be the best, but cheesing the game doesn't equate you to being good at the game.

Tragnar

Demidreamer wrote: »

Make the CD much longer problem fixed wtih family summoning. You'll still have to walk back with whatever you found.
If your running a third party tracker, you better keep said information to yourself. I dont want a game that has everything exposed within the first month. If you do expose the fact that you have a tracker i hope you get your IP banned. You would be taking the fun out of the game for people who want to experience the game fully, for the first time. Damage meters are still a tool. I've seen many posts about how bosses are lame and tactics too easy, prolly wouldn't be the case if your entire raid wasn't mashing on the I WIN buttons.
I think the game will have more meaning w/o meters. Like its a game , sure you want to be the best, but cheesing the game doesn't equate you to being good at the game.

Do you honestly believe that with public alpha and beta you will not have best meta builds for endgame on day 1? Your argument has literally no ground, of course people that do not use website guides will not know that, but your presumption that not having the meters will not create an instant meta is totally wrong.

If you really want this then you should be advocating for cancelling the open alpha and open beta and to have launch without any public testing.

Demidreamer

you did not see at the end of first Month part there will be people who no life the game prolly within the first two weeks and yes i dont want to know about what the meters are doing after the first month. I dont even like to read what you write most the time because you just do alot of word twisting.

Tragnar

You don't want any meta to exist then?

And people that are going to create the meta using tools to be banned from the game?

Demidreamer

There is always a Meta, but you dont need to pants the girl to see what she has underneath.

Tragnar

You don't prevent that with disabling meters, if you really want to do that you need to hide every number in the game for that - disabling meters affects guilds that are trying to break into the top-end the hardest, because they need tools to figure out what they need to improve on to beat the encounter on the hardest difficulty. That is the nature with having a hard content, you need tools to figure out collectively which strategy might give better results, without facts it turns guilds apart by creating drama

Demidreamer

All these top end raiding guilds you talk about should have enough practice already, shouldn't they? Otherwise they would just another low tier guild. Sure step up if you want the challenge, but adding tools to your arsenal takes the challenge away. Leave it a challenge.

Tragnar

I'm not talking about these people - I'm talking about better than average guilds that want to get into the harder content. In there especially with having a 40man raid roster with an obvious bench size for that, you need to judge the players more often to teach them rather than to bash them. Have you ever been in a raiding guild? Surely you must know how the lifetime of a raiding guild goes.

Demidreamer

Yes and i really dislike the social structure. I am not a extrovert. I've at times level'd a whole new toon, geared him up pre-raid BIS . Just to tank a boss (Merose) once and the outcome was a win on the first try. guess what raid ended and restarted within a time period of before i could wake up again. and the drop was plate and for the "greater good" it went to the fail tank, so he could get better. I have more memories this type of BS but i am not a brick wall text kinda guy.

Tragnar

So you don't like loot council guilds, that is ok - don't join those guilds, but why do you feel the obligation to hide facts from those guilds so they have it significantly harder to find what they need to improve on?

Demidreamer

You dont need a meter to do it

Demidreamer

go get a game that has a god mode cheat and have at it

Tragnar

Right know I have a really weak healer in my guild, others are pulling his weight pretty hard because he has higher likeliness to get hit by raid mechanics, but gets progressively better at it so it is all good, but his spike healing and even overall throughput are really low. Do you think it is fair to hide this fact from the guild? So the raid leader has no idea to find out which healer is not pulling his weight even though we are at max healer count for the raid? If we increase the healer count we will have problem with killing adds before the boss comes back.

Demidreamer

that's the price of having friends they shouldn't get mad at him if they are truly friends none of that BS matters, but in the end it does matter. if you look at pvp i'll put money on the smaller bands of pvp'rs because the hold eachother up, raiders do not unless its a easy rinse repeat type method. Think out of the box

No meters. they are a tool. they make the game easier if you want easy go play an easy game DO NOT take the challenge out of a new game. I want to see this game last. Your only try to hasten how fast you get there.

No meters

Tragnar

What are you talking about? I am not in an IRL friend guild, we want to be good and we want to have good raiders so we can progress and eventually kill all raid content in the game. I want to play with good players, we help each other because we all know we need that to get better, but when we have a player that just repeatedly just doesn't get better and is in this way blocking us from progressing then we all want to replace him. We do not play for being a snowflake, we play for the good of the guild. If I need to be benched because my healing is not good enough for whatever reason I have no problem with that, because others will reach out to me in order to give me advice to what I should focus to get better and help the guild in this way.

You are asking for difficult content, but want to blind players to find what they should improve on?

Plus unlike you I don't want to see the most difficult scaling in the raid to be beaten by anyone at some point.

Demidreamer

I dont care about scaling. Least of my worries.

I want to preserve the game for what it is. If your having trouble in your guild not my problem. I already know and have accepted the game for what it is. Why cant you?

Tragnar

So you come to dps meter thread, don't give any reasons for why are meters bad except your emotions and bad loot council experience. Telling me to accept the game in this prealpha state for what it is and telling me to just shut up?

I would be mad if I didn't call this behavior toxic

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