Should character weight be a thing in AoC?

I noticed in the recent dev update that the turtle shown at the end of the livestream, was able to jump over twice its body height. This kinda ruined it for me, as it doesn't really make sense for this super heavy and grumpy turtle, to be that agile.

I think that jumps and rolls should depend on your character's armor. So say for example you're wearing heavy armor, you will have a normal, smaller jump and a slower roll. If you're wearing light armor you get a fancy, higher jump, and a faster roll. If you're wearing medium armor, then it would be a normal jump, and a normal roll.

The difference doesn't have to be great, just noticeable.

What do you guys think? Should character's/monster's weight have an effect on its movement?

EDIT - I'm completely ok with dwarves being able to jump the same height as other races, as that would make it a lot easier to balance. However, their hit box should be the same as other races as well, so as to maintain balance between different races.

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CaptnChuck

Beck Altarr wrote: »

As far a lore for the Turtle. It's shell is covered in Space so maybe it's not as heavy as it looks. It has mass, but like in space it's sorta weightless.

Ooh that's interesting. I didn't know that. The grumpy noises and the noise made by its animations really gave me the idea that it was heavy. But I guess I was wrong.

afar

Players who don't want realism should just get good

Samson1

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

afar

Samson wrote: »

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

Can you give an example? For me only issue is game design. Star Citizen let's say tries to be ultra realistic but it takes time

unphazd

CaptnChuck wrote: »

I noticed in the recent dev update that the turtle shown at the end of the livestream, was able to jump over twice its body height. This kinda ruined it for me, as it doesn't really make sense for this super heavy and grumpy turtle, to be that agile.

I think that jumps and rolls should depend on your character's armor. So say for example you're wearing heavy armor, you will have a normal, smaller jump and a slower roll. If you're wearing light armor you get a fancy, higher jump, and a faster roll. If you're wearing medium armor, then it would be a normal jump, and a normal roll.

The difference doesn't have to be great, just noticeable.

What do you guys think? Should character's/monster's weight have an effect on its movement?

EDIT - I'm completely ok with dwarves being able to jump the same height as other races, as that would make it a lot easier to balance. However, their hit box should be the same as other races as well, so as to maintain balance between different races.

The thing does have glowy shiny stuff on its shell. Maybe just maybe this ain't no ordinary turtle...

Dreoh

afar wrote: »

Samson wrote: »

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

Can you give an example? For me only issue is game design. Star Citizen let's say tries to be ultra realistic but it takes time

There's endless examples. Magic? Sprinting for miles without gasping for breath? Instant horse summon/desummon? A vertical jump height most people can't make in real life? Jumping constantly for 5 minutes? Holding 50 weapons in your backpack? Not living in the real world? Playing as a Dwarf/Orc/Elf/Lizard/Furry? Flying mounts? Not needing to take bathroom breaks in-game? Fighting a literal dragon? Killing someone, then them magically being revived at a nearby town and killing you? I guess some people believe in some old guy who respawned in a cave once in real life. Weapons not hitting walls and clipping through them?

I can go on if you want me to but I think you get the point. At least I hope so.

Aardvark

afar wrote: »

Samson wrote: »

I mean... AoC is not meant to be a medieval simulator. Going too deep down the 'realism' rabbit hole can take away from the fun of the game.

Gotta be mindful that good game play tends to trump realism in successful games.

Can you give an example? For me only issue is game design. Star Citizen let's say tries to be ultra realistic but it takes time

There is nothing realistic about sc it’s based on a 70s sci-fi understanding of space war.

Grievousness

I'll keep it short.
No, it shouldn't be a thing.

Also the realism argument is fundamentaly flawed, in fact nobody wants a "realistic game".
Going outside is cheaper anyways.

People want an immersive experience that has only partly to do with realism,
but instead what people perceive to be correct.
For example the night in almost every game is far too bright but nobody ever complains about it being unrealistic because it is so widely accepted that most people would not even actively notice this extreme level of unrealism.
In other words: It is still "immersive" enough to be not annoying.

Since people obviously have different experiences/preferences, what is perceived to be correct also differs.
As a result having an "objective" dicussion about immersion/realism is a bit pointless.

It boils down to "Do you care?" => "Yes/No"

Taroze

All they have to do is balance jumping actions via stamina...everyone can jump and dodge the same but armor effects the amount of stamina used...heavier = more...lighter = less

Taroze

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Weight mechanics can REALLY drag a game down into a menu sorting-fest. That's the problem with weight/inventory issues...you spend more time fukin with your bags then anything else. Its bad enough in WoW and WoW gives you a ton of slots w/no weight restrictions.

Aardvark

Taroze wrote: »

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Weight mechanics can REALLY drag a game down into a menu sorting-fest. That's the problem with weight/inventory issues...you spend more time fukin with your bags then anything else. Its bad enough in WoW and WoW gives you a ton of slots w/no weight restrictions.

Weight mechanics worked very well in DnD...

Dreoh

Aardvark wrote: »

Taroze wrote: »

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Weight mechanics can REALLY drag a game down into a menu sorting-fest. That's the problem with weight/inventory issues...you spend more time fukin with your bags then anything else. Its bad enough in WoW and WoW gives you a ton of slots w/no weight restrictions.

Weight mechanics worked very well in DnD...

DnD is a tabletop RP, not a programmed mechanics-based game

Aardvark

Dreoh wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Taroze wrote: »

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Weight mechanics can REALLY drag a game down into a menu sorting-fest. That's the problem with weight/inventory issues...you spend more time fukin with your bags then anything else. Its bad enough in WoW and WoW gives you a ton of slots w/no weight restrictions.

Weight mechanics worked very well in DnD...

DnD is a tabletop RP, not a programmed mechanics-based game

They said they want realism ... 200 tower shields in the bag on your belt that you are taking to the vendor is not very realistic

Dreoh

Aardvark wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Taroze wrote: »

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I swore I posted here...

Personally, I like weight mechanics, down to the last copper.

Unfortunately, these mechanics are not popular. So, few games bother. "Hey, Rockey. Watch me pull my mount outta my hat.".

Realism versus gameplay? Well, we know the answer there.

Weight mechanics can REALLY drag a game down into a menu sorting-fest. That's the problem with weight/inventory issues...you spend more time fukin with your bags then anything else. Its bad enough in WoW and WoW gives you a ton of slots w/no weight restrictions.

Weight mechanics worked very well in DnD...

DnD is a tabletop RP, not a programmed mechanics-based game

They said they want realism ... 200 tower shields in the bag on your belt that you are taking to the vendor is not very realistic

Yes, but it's absolutely not a valid comparison. DnD is an entirely roleplay game with set rules yes, but rules that are bendable to suit the people participating.

Video games have hardcoded rules that are not bendable.

On top of that, @Taroze was talking about how gameplay-wise a realistic inventory is more trouble than it's worth. In DnD, you don't have to click around and stuff, you just say, "I put my sword into my bag." or "I pull out my scroll from my backpack" and it's that easy.

We're talking about programmed video games, not imagination-based roleplaying games.

CaptnChuck

@Aardvark
@Dreoh

Can you guys stop deviating from my post?

The problems that come with introducing a realistic inventory is far greater than the problems that come with introducing slight weight based mechanics to a jump or a roll. Its NOT the same thing.

Veriable

I saw your thread and it kinda falls in line with my question? The last MMO I played was Dark Ages..I just built a new system and back into gaming last month..I was wondering if any MMOs had did a life span type deal? Not sure if that's the right word for it..You know your born you live, you grow old, pay taxes, and you die, hope fully of natural causes..I guess it would really suck if you been working on you character for like 2 years and one day your out killing weak monsters with your friends and bam your character dies for good cause of death a heart attack or something..

CROW3

Outward implemented this well. It leads to tactical decision making that made that game have a heightened sense of risk (which I like).

This might be more frustrating / less acceptable in an mmo context especially with raid / boss mechanics, pvp, etc. Certainly there are some weight mechanics that would be interesting to experiment with such as:
- inventory capacity
- Stealth capability
- Mount speed / effectiveness
- Cast timers

Of course, you could also implement mitigating factors with skill point allocation, training, etc. This could be handled similar to DnD non-weapon proficiencies (2ndE) or armor feats (3rdE+).

RedFlo

For me it doesn't break immersion. We are in a fantasy world, with extraordinary creatures, so a turtle jumping that high might just be explained in some way or form.

Just my opinion, but I know that there are people who value realism very highly.

Hurrikhan

In my experience, weight has no upside in such a game.
I see it as a source of frustration and disappointment.

CaptnChuck

RedFlo wrote: »

For me it doesn't break immersion. We are in a fantasy world, with extraordinary creatures, so a turtle jumping that high might just be explained in some way or form.

Just my opinion, but I know that there are people who value realism very highly.

Its more so about feel than its about reality. When you see a giant ass turtle, you want it to feel like a giant ass turtle. You don't want it to feel like some anime turtle that can jump 5 feet into the air.

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