I actually have not, but unfortunately you presumed I did.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
This'll get changed later to meet a more casual standard. We will all look back like a bunch of boomers and say "Back in our day we got punished for being bad"
Personally I think @Enasithia and @Great Brae are the same person. It's ironic one stopped posting 2 days ago and the other started yesterday. Both of them with the same narrative "This bad game fail" zero cognitive reasoning behind their posts.
Tyrantor
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I actually have not, but unfortunately you presumed I did.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
You are a massive troll. The moment you start mocking the game with grade school name-calling, and insulting the other posters here, that’s what you’ve become. You are not here to discuss your ideas and simply give your opinion. You are needling, taunting, and spamming. You are more toxic than any of the activities you claim are griefing.
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PreacherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
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PreacherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Nope. Sorry to disappoint, but I will continue to state my opinions, like it or not.
player theft is a gaming sin, pvp or no.
No one will care as they take the mats and laugh.
Correct, if you listened, to five seconds more than that you would understand they are not reffering to alterac valley or arathi basin. It is a literal ground of battle. Caravan zones, sieges, areas in which you will immediately be flagged as combatant, for or against. Notice the "as they are commonly held".
And no, it has nothing to do with what i want, there are several things i would change about the game if i could. It's about how they have said they are designing the game. If you have a problem with that, and don't think you will enjoy the game because of it, then yes, shut up and leave.
Thought I would quote this for complete proof of my above post. This is exactly what you are going to get with open-world PVP. Period.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
1
Options
PreacherMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
Where did he say that? I think you completely misread his post.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
Killing people is also crossing the line, and is even more morally reprehensible than stealing. Imagine video games where you can kill other players... it disgusts me!! We should ban all games that aren't just players holding hands and singing kumbaya. I doubt that any video game that involves killing other players is even successful. Absolutely disgusting.
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
Thank you preach, this is my exact thoughts on the matter.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
Killing people is also crossing the line, and is even more morally reprehensible than stealing. Imagine video games where you can kill other players... it disgusts me!! We should ban all games that aren't just players holding hands and singing kumbaya. I doubt that any video game that involves killing other players is even successful. Absolutely disgusting.
pvp is fine, taking ppl's stuff and slowing/halting ppl's progression after they worked hard to get it is not.
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
Thank you preach, this is my exact thoughts on the matter.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
Killing people is also crossing the line, and is even more morally reprehensible than stealing. Imagine video games where you can kill other players... it disgusts me!! We should ban all games that aren't just players holding hands and singing kumbaya. I doubt that any video game that involves killing other players is even successful. Absolutely disgusting.
pvp is fine, taking ppl's stuff and slowing/halting ppl's progression after they worked hard to get it is not.
Hey bud, maybe you somehow missed it, but the ENTIRE premise of the game is that people can wreck other players nodes to make room for theirs to grow. Stopping and destroying things other people worked on is the whole game.
And my entire premise of posting is suggesting they take another route before they fail. There is enough initative in the game to pvp without greifing/theft.
And if I remember the premise of the game is "you play what you want, and do what you want" And "The world is a ever changing world."
Not "We will let ppl troll/destroy/steal your junk with no return to you just for the lols"
I would have to agree with this IF and I mean a big IF the area you happen to be in is another enemy faction territory. Then yes, you should be attacked, as that is defending your "turf" I will admit I am not versed in how they plan to do open-world PVP, but if it is via factions, then I am all for that. I am not however for just plain old open-world PVP, and if they do that, it won't be long after before they open PVE servers due to the outrage it will cause. Mark my words, I do not care how "firm" a stance the Devs may have on it right now. I know other games that had this type of stance bend when it came to pride over money.
AGAIN. First off, i haven't seen you around so welcome to the forums and the game. Second, before assuming Ashes says it's going to do something, and you throw up the disapproval because you played this one game one time, actually look into the game systems and wait till you have a complete picture to judge it for yourself. I would strongly suggest you check out the wiki and Ashes101.com, both great resources.
To give you some broad stroke info, there are no solid factions, so no Horde v Alliance if you're a wow player. As people do anything; explore, gather, kill mobs etc., exp is gathered in the area. Eventually, as we all play, the areas will grow into centers of civilization, from a crossroad, to a camp, to a village, a town, and finally a metropolis. These are called Nodes, and eventually, bigger nodes tie smaller nodes to them, in effect creating a country of sorts. You may become a citizen of these places at the village level on up, at which point this is your "Faction". You may leave, and join another cluster of nodes, or switch to another node in your cluster if you have the capacity. If i am walking in my node clusters area of control, or ZOI (zone of influence) and i see a guy mining or fishing, I'm not going to mess with him. He is actively growing my home, and i want my home to be the biggest and best it can be (there are many bonuses to this). However if someone from another node group comes in and starts messing with that gathering guy, i'm going to hunt the intruder down so my node isn't being slowed.
This is the central pillar of Ashes, and you really should look into it if you are interested in the game. It's way more detailed than i can explain here typing.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
Thank you preach, this is my exact thoughts on the matter.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
Killing people is also crossing the line, and is even more morally reprehensible than stealing. Imagine video games where you can kill other players... it disgusts me!! We should ban all games that aren't just players holding hands and singing kumbaya. I doubt that any video game that involves killing other players is even successful. Absolutely disgusting.
pvp is fine, taking ppl's stuff and slowing/halting ppl's progression after they worked hard to get it is not.
Taking someone's life against their will and making them respawn, slowing/halting their progress, is not okay. There shouldn't be any risk, only reward.
Incorrect, you are the troll here. Greif kills should have no reward. PvP events should have other rewards (in the case of this game, increasing zoi and unlocking more dungeons. I have also suggested badges for PvP events that can be handed in for items.) But please go on on why you want ppl to literally rage quit this game in fusterstion and allowing this game to fail.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?[/quote]
Alrighty. On your first note (again with the 'hey this one thing in this one game i played is slightly similar, therefore it will also fail here!) From the many UO players on this forum, or following this game, or that i know personally, OW PVP did't kill UO, Trammel did. And they only added it to mollify a vocal minority, which is always a mistake.
On your second, yeah they might. If you assume that anyone out gathering must not also be a pvp player, then you as the hunter in this scenario are an idiot. Add in the corruption you will accrue, that mind you, even when removed marks your soul so you will later gain INCREASED corruption, prepare to drop gear from the many people who have said they want to bounty hunt, or the people that will hunt you down just because they can. You cannot remove gear, or trade, or be summoned, or enter a city. not to mention the possibly massive exp debt. And all this for killing a player who can't even carry that much? It's silly to assume without full pvp loot drop that this will be a massive problem.
Third note, corruption has no benefits. You literally get weaker. So i doubt you will see them in open pvp areas where they will be a prime target to dedicated pvpers.
As to your last point, it would be foolish to think those people from open world survivals, like rust ark, atlas, and conan, plus those who now won't touch new world, plus your usual bevy of attempted cheaters and exploiters, won't make a migration to this game, and it is a fair concern. But the game simply puts too many restrictions on them for them to either a, change their playstyle to suit the game, or b, go to a full loot game with no restrictions. And you are right, our testing will measure these systems out, and see just how punishing they need be while still maintaining a balance.
Incorrect, you are the troll here. Greif kills should have no reward. PvP events should have other rewards (in the case of this game, increasing zoi and unlocking more dungeons. I have also suggested badges for PvP events that can be handed in for items.) But please go on on why you want ppl to literally rage quit this game in fusterstion and allowing this game to fail.
They have already gave plenty of reason why all these ideas are stupid. Pvp events do nothing to expand your zoi, at best they stop your zoi from shrinking. Again, improve your troll game, but troll on.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
Regarding UO. Yeah when trammel was born UO pvp basically died because it became participation based
therefore all of the anxiety, stress and excitement related to pvp is gone.
The full loot pvp was always required to give that game its adrenaline. When they removed its balls and took away the thing that made it unique then it became just like every other mmo. This is why the game died, removal of PvP not because it had PvP.
What many people don't seem to understand is that loot based PvP, durability loss etc are all factors that help stimulate a player run economy. So a PVE player that wants to run a store, become a crafter, jeweler etc if people do not lose gear, items, break gear frequently enough what role will the crafter have? Why would I ever need to visit your store to replace my food supply, potions or other consumables on a regular basis? Without the PvP working together with elements of PvE there isn't a true MMO system. What you need to focus on during Alpha is the time requirement to replace loss of XP and loot not just "hey they're doing X to avoid Y and I died". It's important that the loss doesn't seem unbearable, because that WILL ruin the game. If it only takes someone 10 minutes to replace their losses that might not be enough time either, it has to balance so people feel risk. The right amount of time probably sits somewhere in the 30-45 minute range. So death is meaningful but not so much people feel like they're in some endless loop.
Let me give you an numeric example that might make more sense here. Currently the estimated level time frame is approx 225 hours total (45 days x 5 hours/day). While I still believe this is unlikely with the variable of PvP/conflict it at least gives us a baseline to examine potential time with conflict. For example, If you were to die and each death = 30 additional minutes of gameplay to break even on where you were before death then let's assume you die 10x each level to PvP that would add 5 hours per level to max a character. This becomes 250 additional hours of gamemplay, now all of the people who said 45 days was too short, now it's approximately 90 days to max level. Also using simple mathematics if it takes 45 days to reach level 50 at 5 hours per day then it's suggestive each level will take approx 4.5 hours (averaged). Based on most MMOs the first 10 levels usually go pretty quick, is it reasonable to assume that we could reach level 10 in 5 hours/1 day? Now let's say you died 10x for each of those 10 levels, now it's taken us 2 days to reach level 10 instead, is that game breaking? Lol come on people wake up.
Everyone wants to suggest the fix is "owning multiple accounts" it also seems to me that only the "griefers" will own multiple accounts. No crafter is going to have another account so he can summon his alt across the world to get some resource he has no access to on his main account? No PvE player is going to have an alt account to summon his main across the map so he can farm some dungeon that's in a node/geographic location hours away from where he wants his main because of friends, guilds, quests etc?
Let me understand this griefing and abuse of the system only relates to PvP? You understand that circumventing the travel system for these reasons put's strain on the economy because then the PVP system doesn't function as intended, there will be less death and loss and money sinks if people just use alt accounts to avoid risk and time.
I also disagree that PvP isn't consensual, when you log in the game you assume the same risk as everyone else when you expose your character to unknown circumstances. Just because you do not initiate the PvP does not mean it's not consensual. Also the misconception is that the person who gets attacked always loses, why is that? You do understand that the PvPers have to exp, farm, do trade skill requirements, quest etc also right? Are we to believe that everyone out in the open world is simply a sheep waiting to be slaughtered? Guess what I hope people attack me you know why? Because it saves me time from having to find the fight, I get to fight back with less risk AND the game is actually fun not just the same boring MMO status quo of, farm this camp for a few levels then move here and repeat until you're X level to use instanced PvP.
Tyrantor
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Except tyrannical, when that loss where to happen when your offline (seige succeeds and banks/housing gets looted) how would a player feel when they come online to see everything they worked for vanish? That is not good for the health of any game, nor is player looting.
I also lack the understanding why player looting needs to be used to bring "andrenaline" into the game. In games that lacks player looting I feel that andrenaline just fine without it in PvP because I want to win.
once that resource is in your bags, it's yours, racing to it or even fighting before that resource is clicked is fine, but player theft is a line not to be crossed.
Player servers from other games has loot dropped turned off for a good reason, not because you lose the items, but it's to prevent toxic greifing behavior, and no the curruption system is not going to be enough to deter from this, since you will lose more if you don't fight back, and they don't currupt upon your death as fighting back turns you combatant.
Player theft is not excusable, and games that forces that upon it's player base has historically failed, with the exeption of EQ, but EQ wasn't originally made to be like MMO's of today.
Also, the game's developer team doesn't. Which is all that counts. Also, across all the death penalties from open world pve and pvx games, this is one of the most harmeless incarnations. It's barely mentionable when compared to
Permadeath > Full loot > Inventory Loot + Random Gear drops > Inventory loot > Loot of Gatherables and Materials > Loot of a limited amount of gatherables and materials.
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Also, Caravans are the primary (almost sole) way to get your goods from Place A to place B. Which can be robbed/looted.
I could care less about losing items aside from gear from the death penalty, I care more about allowing theft, thus giving reason to greif other players.
if caravans is like then yes, this game will be memed as greifers of creation.
It’s not griefing to fight over resources. You will have to PvP if you want to succeed because it’s a PvX game.
If that’s a deal breaker for you, well, greifers of creation isn’t being made for everyone. You’re free to not play it.
/fixed for you
Actually, UO was a very successful game that had in game looting after a PK. Game is still widely successful even though there are no longer official servers.
Is it successful because of looting or because of ultima's fanbase? Because back then Ultima had a crazy cult following.
As far as I heard ppl hated the player looting.
I doubt player looting was the driving force of the game, similar with WoW and FF.
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DrokkMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
This is still going, huh. Well I said my piece and moved on. Intrepid will do what they think is best for the game and either we accept it...or we don't. But feedback is always good.
Except tyrannical, when that loss where to happen when your offline (seige succeeds and banks/housing gets looted) how would a player feel when they come online to see everything they worked for vanish? That is not good for the health of any game, nor is player looting.
I also lack the understanding why player looting needs to be used to bring "andrenaline" into the game. In games that lacks player looting I feel that andrenaline just fine without it in PvP because I want to win.
If you were gone from the game from declaration to seige date (so basically, a full week), then tough luck. They had ample time to prepare to help defend their node. They didn’t. It’s not a tall ask to have players log in once a week.
You clearly don’t want a game with actual consequences to ignoring your territory. Ashes is not, will not be, and should not become the type of game you’re after.
Except tyrannical, when that loss where to happen when your offline (seige succeeds and banks/housing gets looted) how would a player feel when they come online to see everything they worked for vanish? That is not good for the health of any game, nor is player looting.
I also lack the understanding why player looting needs to be used to bring "andrenaline" into the game. In games that lacks player looting I feel that andrenaline just fine without it in PvP because I want to win.
If you were gone from the game from declaration to seige date (so basically, a full week), then tough luck. They had ample time to prepare to help defend their node. They didn’t. It’s not a tall ask to have players log in once a week.
You clearly don’t want a game with actual consequences to ignoring your territory. Ashes is not, will not be, and should not become the type of game you’re after.
Another shut up and leave again? Damn these forums is rude.
No I will not leave lol, and I will stat my opinion.
Players has lives outside the game, vacations work and what not. To expect everyone to always to log in is arrogant at best and bad gaming at worst. There is better PvP incentives that can and should be in game then player greifing.
Except tyrannical, when that loss where to happen when your offline (seige succeeds and banks/housing gets looted) how would a player feel when they come online to see everything they worked for vanish? That is not good for the health of any game, nor is player looting.
I also lack the understanding why player looting needs to be used to bring "andrenaline" into the game. In games that lacks player looting I feel that andrenaline just fine without it in PvP because I want to win.
So you're too good for "theft" but you'll resort to name calling? LOL
You lack a lot of understanding and until you actual acknowledge the other side of the argument it's not worth even replying to you.
Look at it this way, IS is developing a game designed around PvP, item loss, city destruction. This game is going to be about that. On a fundamental level this game likely encompasses Steven's "dream" game so to speak. All you're doing is shitting on it. You've yet to concede how anything about this could be good, just you don't like it and you're hell bent on letting everyone know about it.
People are telling you to GTFO because you seem closed minded and if these are your true feelings on the game it doesn't make sense why you're here posting about it. Now instead of actually putting your brain to work and trying to counter the points I made above you just try to make fun of my name and then say "yeah but this". If you can't stay on topic or respond like an adult I and this community really have no reason to address you further.
As I stated before I hope you do get the game and we get the joys of being on the same server.
Tyrantor
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Class system is very ambitious and good, I love the ideas being put forth on that.
Races; I like what they put out so far espaically the tulnar idea.
Ever changing world is also a good idea, it shows the world evolving with the raise and fall of empires and city states lacking in most mmo's, and gives incentives to help build cities through many means possible.
Death penalty; acceptable minus the fact ppl can kill you to steal, and possibly the stat reduction in case of designated PvP areas, but I am holding my judgement on the stat reduction till I see it action.
I have made suggestions in other threads and advice why player theft is a bad idea and how to improve the concepts of PvP. I have been open minded on ideas for greif prevention. I am not open minded to ppl that only seem to care on greifing ppl. It seems like you would be one of them. I will keep an eye on this game to see if they wised up and remove the player looting system but if they don't I am 100% sure the game would get memed on and the ppl amount Steven wants for the game won't happen.
I honestly feel sorry for ppl that backed the game and now regret it because of the fact they can be greifed or have there game stuff stolen for what amounts to 0 reason. And I hope they can at least get there money's worth for a bit of entertainment before the game goes greif-kingdom mode.
Comments
You’ve been trolling most of your time on this thread.
The entire game is based around attacking, destroying, and looting the territory of other players in order to benefit your own territory.
This seems to be against your e-morals, and so you really have no place here, as your opinion is directly opposed the game’s core design.
Unless stealing from many people is not against your e-morals while stealing from one person somehow is.
The idea of stealing everything is a bad one, and will make the game fail. Taking over territories is one thing after all, but stealing is crossing that line.
I get that you don't like it but why is it bad?
Is it bad because you don't like it?
Is it because you don't like it the game will fail?
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was a brand new soon to be player. Been with it since the day one Kickstarter. I just have not been following closely. I should have been more specific, I understand how the "faction/node) works. My statement stands on the part about total open-world PVP. It brings NOTHING but headaches. And from the sound of it the nodes will connect which could cause strife as each side tries to grow their side, which I called a "faction" for lack of better terms.
There is a post a few up from this where a guy is serious/joking about him griefing another poster over the thoughts on theft. Joking or no, this is exactly what I am talking about. It will happen, a lot. These types of PVP vs PVE arguments happen in every game, but in the end, it turns into a stalemate until the game developers either change the system to accommodate both sides in a fair way or the game tanks. Show me any MMO that has true open-world PVP that is not a toxic mess. Heck, the only big-named one I can think of off the top of my head is Black Desert. I played that, and it is full of toxic nasty people. Like I said I have been around the block on this stuff. Been playing since 1996. Some things don't change. If there is an opportunity to grief it will happen and run rampant.
Now let's talk about the PVP system. The way it is set up right now favors the PVP players, as they will go around and kill non PVP players for loot and giggles. To lose the "corruption" you get you to die or quest. What about the guy who was killed and lost his loot? They get nothing but lost time and goods or whatever they drop. How long do you think it will be before a guild runs whatever they need to run to get around these penalty rules? The guild makes bounty hunters, they go after their guildie kill them and return their stuff, and maybe split the profit from the bounty should there be one. Again, what does the PVE player get out of this? A vicious circle of grief. When this first came out in Kickstarter, I did not do enough research, because had I, I would not have backed it. Now I am stuck, should it be the open-world PVP game that is taking shape with an over one thousand dollar account that I at this point don't even want, and no way to legally get my money back. The rest of the game I love the ideas, but open world PVP will ruin it all. My 2 cents.
Thought I would quote this for complete proof of my above post. This is exactly what you are going to get with open-world PVP. Period.
Different strokes for different folks.
The open pvp is the reason I backed the game. Listening to the Proxy explain the system is what got me following the project. I don't get this attitude of thinking that no game should ever be allowed to have open pvp. If you don't like it then cool and please express that opinion but I find it messed up when you take it a step farther and say it doesn't belong in any MMOs.
A lot of MMOs fail. It's not like every PvE MMO that comes out is successful. We haven't had a successful MMO in a while, which is probably the reason we are having this conversation. I think it's worth noticing that the most popular games on the market are pvp games(at least from what i can see). The only Pvp mmos we have are eastern games and they struggle in general in our market for a variety of reasons other than the presence of pvp. It's not hard to see that a well put together pvp MMO could grab a decent audience.
The red player can also lose gear if killed with any loot they gained from their kill. They also have to work all the negative exp the got as it's greatly increased. The player they killed can get the satisfaction of knowing the person who killed them will at least have to work off that kill and might lose something for it. That said, they died. I don't think you deserve to get anything for that.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?
Where did he say that? I think you completely misread his post.
Killing people is also crossing the line, and is even more morally reprehensible than stealing. Imagine video games where you can kill other players... it disgusts me!! We should ban all games that aren't just players holding hands and singing kumbaya. I doubt that any video game that involves killing other players is even successful. Absolutely disgusting.
Thank you preach, this is my exact thoughts on the matter.
pvp is fine, taking ppl's stuff and slowing/halting ppl's progression after they worked hard to get it is not.
Hey bud, maybe you somehow missed it, but the ENTIRE premise of the game is that people can wreck other players nodes to make room for theirs to grow. Stopping and destroying things other people worked on is the whole game.
And if I remember the premise of the game is "you play what you want, and do what you want" And "The world is a ever changing world."
Not "We will let ppl troll/destroy/steal your junk with no return to you just for the lols"
Taking someone's life against their will and making them respawn, slowing/halting their progress, is not okay. There shouldn't be any risk, only reward.
As the one who want's no bonus to killing a player, that's literally you. But troll on i guess.
First off, I never said it did not belong. I Said in any game that has had it fails. My second ever MMO was Ultima online when it launched. It had open full loot PVP. At first, it was fun, you would have blues vs reds. Then as time went on it became toxic, if you were around at that time and were old enough to have played, you know what happened. Trammel was born. And Feluccia became a dead server within the server.
So let's look at how the PVP is going to work here. It is not consensual, it is I am gonna attack you and if you defend yourself you are also flagged. That is not consensual. That is let's let griefers run amuck and punish the non PVP players. Not only that all these PVP players have to do is own more than 1 account. They go out and kill players run home and log. Then they can get on their other account and play normally. OR they can log on during nonpeak times and work it off. That is only 1 scenario where they can skirt the penalty. There are many more, and they will figure it out. So, while PVP could be fun in this game, THAT type of PVP ONLY benefits one type of player. Guess who they are?
I think that the sieges and other types of PVP they are planning could be fun. But having zerg guild go out with a few reds who kill everyone in sight will be rampant. Time is gonna tell. I know that during Alpha I plan to test it thoroughly and give my fair feedback on all of this. So right now all I have is theory. I just hope most of the Alpha folks will also be fair with their assessment too. My worry is that every toxic/cheating PVP players will flock to this thinking it will be their griefing playground. I can only hope this is not the case.
By the way what in the world are you talking about saying the only successful MMO's out right now is PVP? You are joking, right?[/quote]
Alrighty. On your first note (again with the 'hey this one thing in this one game i played is slightly similar, therefore it will also fail here!) From the many UO players on this forum, or following this game, or that i know personally, OW PVP did't kill UO, Trammel did. And they only added it to mollify a vocal minority, which is always a mistake.
On your second, yeah they might. If you assume that anyone out gathering must not also be a pvp player, then you as the hunter in this scenario are an idiot. Add in the corruption you will accrue, that mind you, even when removed marks your soul so you will later gain INCREASED corruption, prepare to drop gear from the many people who have said they want to bounty hunt, or the people that will hunt you down just because they can. You cannot remove gear, or trade, or be summoned, or enter a city. not to mention the possibly massive exp debt. And all this for killing a player who can't even carry that much? It's silly to assume without full pvp loot drop that this will be a massive problem.
Third note, corruption has no benefits. You literally get weaker. So i doubt you will see them in open pvp areas where they will be a prime target to dedicated pvpers.
As to your last point, it would be foolish to think those people from open world survivals, like rust ark, atlas, and conan, plus those who now won't touch new world, plus your usual bevy of attempted cheaters and exploiters, won't make a migration to this game, and it is a fair concern. But the game simply puts too many restrictions on them for them to either a, change their playstyle to suit the game, or b, go to a full loot game with no restrictions. And you are right, our testing will measure these systems out, and see just how punishing they need be while still maintaining a balance.
They have already gave plenty of reason why all these ideas are stupid. Pvp events do nothing to expand your zoi, at best they stop your zoi from shrinking. Again, improve your troll game, but troll on.
Regarding UO. Yeah when trammel was born UO pvp basically died because it became participation based
therefore all of the anxiety, stress and excitement related to pvp is gone.
The full loot pvp was always required to give that game its adrenaline. When they removed its balls and took away the thing that made it unique then it became just like every other mmo. This is why the game died, removal of PvP not because it had PvP.
What many people don't seem to understand is that loot based PvP, durability loss etc are all factors that help stimulate a player run economy. So a PVE player that wants to run a store, become a crafter, jeweler etc if people do not lose gear, items, break gear frequently enough what role will the crafter have? Why would I ever need to visit your store to replace my food supply, potions or other consumables on a regular basis? Without the PvP working together with elements of PvE there isn't a true MMO system. What you need to focus on during Alpha is the time requirement to replace loss of XP and loot not just "hey they're doing X to avoid Y and I died". It's important that the loss doesn't seem unbearable, because that WILL ruin the game. If it only takes someone 10 minutes to replace their losses that might not be enough time either, it has to balance so people feel risk. The right amount of time probably sits somewhere in the 30-45 minute range. So death is meaningful but not so much people feel like they're in some endless loop.
Let me give you an numeric example that might make more sense here. Currently the estimated level time frame is approx 225 hours total (45 days x 5 hours/day). While I still believe this is unlikely with the variable of PvP/conflict it at least gives us a baseline to examine potential time with conflict. For example, If you were to die and each death = 30 additional minutes of gameplay to break even on where you were before death then let's assume you die 10x each level to PvP that would add 5 hours per level to max a character. This becomes 250 additional hours of gamemplay, now all of the people who said 45 days was too short, now it's approximately 90 days to max level. Also using simple mathematics if it takes 45 days to reach level 50 at 5 hours per day then it's suggestive each level will take approx 4.5 hours (averaged). Based on most MMOs the first 10 levels usually go pretty quick, is it reasonable to assume that we could reach level 10 in 5 hours/1 day? Now let's say you died 10x for each of those 10 levels, now it's taken us 2 days to reach level 10 instead, is that game breaking? Lol come on people wake up.
Everyone wants to suggest the fix is "owning multiple accounts" it also seems to me that only the "griefers" will own multiple accounts. No crafter is going to have another account so he can summon his alt across the world to get some resource he has no access to on his main account? No PvE player is going to have an alt account to summon his main across the map so he can farm some dungeon that's in a node/geographic location hours away from where he wants his main because of friends, guilds, quests etc?
Let me understand this griefing and abuse of the system only relates to PvP? You understand that circumventing the travel system for these reasons put's strain on the economy because then the PVP system doesn't function as intended, there will be less death and loss and money sinks if people just use alt accounts to avoid risk and time.
I also disagree that PvP isn't consensual, when you log in the game you assume the same risk as everyone else when you expose your character to unknown circumstances. Just because you do not initiate the PvP does not mean it's not consensual. Also the misconception is that the person who gets attacked always loses, why is that? You do understand that the PvPers have to exp, farm, do trade skill requirements, quest etc also right? Are we to believe that everyone out in the open world is simply a sheep waiting to be slaughtered? Guess what I hope people attack me you know why? Because it saves me time from having to find the fight, I get to fight back with less risk AND the game is actually fun not just the same boring MMO status quo of, farm this camp for a few levels then move here and repeat until you're X level to use instanced PvP.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
I also lack the understanding why player looting needs to be used to bring "andrenaline" into the game. In games that lacks player looting I feel that andrenaline just fine without it in PvP because I want to win.
Actually, UO was a very successful game that had in game looting after a PK. Game is still widely successful even though there are no longer official servers.
As far as I heard ppl hated the player looting.
I doubt player looting was the driving force of the game, similar with WoW and FF.
If you were gone from the game from declaration to seige date (so basically, a full week), then tough luck. They had ample time to prepare to help defend their node. They didn’t. It’s not a tall ask to have players log in once a week.
You clearly don’t want a game with actual consequences to ignoring your territory. Ashes is not, will not be, and should not become the type of game you’re after.
Another shut up and leave again? Damn these forums is rude.
No I will not leave lol, and I will stat my opinion.
Players has lives outside the game, vacations work and what not. To expect everyone to always to log in is arrogant at best and bad gaming at worst. There is better PvP incentives that can and should be in game then player greifing.
So you're too good for "theft" but you'll resort to name calling? LOL
You lack a lot of understanding and until you actual acknowledge the other side of the argument it's not worth even replying to you.
Look at it this way, IS is developing a game designed around PvP, item loss, city destruction. This game is going to be about that. On a fundamental level this game likely encompasses Steven's "dream" game so to speak. All you're doing is shitting on it. You've yet to concede how anything about this could be good, just you don't like it and you're hell bent on letting everyone know about it.
People are telling you to GTFO because you seem closed minded and if these are your true feelings on the game it doesn't make sense why you're here posting about it. Now instead of actually putting your brain to work and trying to counter the points I made above you just try to make fun of my name and then say "yeah but this". If you can't stay on topic or respond like an adult I and this community really have no reason to address you further.
As I stated before I hope you do get the game and we get the joys of being on the same server.
Master Assassin
(Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
Book suggestions:
Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
Class system is very ambitious and good, I love the ideas being put forth on that.
Races; I like what they put out so far espaically the tulnar idea.
Ever changing world is also a good idea, it shows the world evolving with the raise and fall of empires and city states lacking in most mmo's, and gives incentives to help build cities through many means possible.
Death penalty; acceptable minus the fact ppl can kill you to steal, and possibly the stat reduction in case of designated PvP areas, but I am holding my judgement on the stat reduction till I see it action.
I have made suggestions in other threads and advice why player theft is a bad idea and how to improve the concepts of PvP. I have been open minded on ideas for greif prevention. I am not open minded to ppl that only seem to care on greifing ppl. It seems like you would be one of them. I will keep an eye on this game to see if they wised up and remove the player looting system but if they don't I am 100% sure the game would get memed on and the ppl amount Steven wants for the game won't happen.
I honestly feel sorry for ppl that backed the game and now regret it because of the fact they can be greifed or have there game stuff stolen for what amounts to 0 reason. And I hope they can at least get there money's worth for a bit of entertainment before the game goes greif-kingdom mode.