PvE Difficulty

We know that AoC is going to have 80% open world PvE content and 20% instanced PvE content (mainly lore content).

This brings me to my question. How will they create challenging, Open world, PvE content?

We've seen Archeage try this before, but the content itself changed into PvP content due to the fact that the difficulty stemmed from the PvP aspect of it and not from the PvE content itself.

This is why I'm worried about PvE content in AoC, as I feel like Steven, in his pursuit for social interaction, won't be willing to sacrifice some of it in exchange for creating challenging PvE content.

One of my solutions was to create two different types of PvE content: Open world dungeons/raids for enchanting materials/augments/enchanting risk-reducing materials etc. (like enchanting in L2), and Instanced dungeons/raids for gear.

Another solution that I heard was to add a lot of depth to PvE content, by adding multiple rooms and levels and stuff, so that players don't constantly contest each other.

What do you think? Do you think that this is going to be a problem? If so, how do you propose to solve it?

(P.S. There's also the aspect of zerging down bosses but Steven has already stated that they're working on introducing mechanics to ensure that this won't happen. I don't know how successful these mechanics will be, but I really hope that they nail it, as if they don't, the game will fail.)

EDIT - To those of you saying that this game shouldn't appeal to everyone....Shut up. Steven clearly said that he wanted AoC to appeal to all types of players: PvP, PvE, crafting etc. He wants this to be a PvX game.

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bloodprophet

CaptnChuck wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what is meant by "potentially". This part will be regulated by the community of players.
If you show up to kill the boss. "Potentially" another group might show and contest you for it or they might move on or they might watch you wipe and kill it before you get back.

I've seen this video more times than you have. So you don't have to link it to me.
Interesting comment to make.
Are you sure?

You don't know what it means for sure either. You can interpret it in both ways.

Try this again.
Define what you meant here.
The potential exists for many out comes here.

I get what your saying about harder content you can do uninterrupted I just think games that have the potential for interruption are more fun then static encounters where a boss mob does XYZ at a certain time in a certain order are a lot more fun.

Why I prefer playing on PVP servers. Makes you pay more attention to your surroundings and whats going on.

bloodprophet

Abominatus wrote: »

One option that was rather weakly explored in WoW is to make the raid instanced, but gate it behind a PvP setpiece. In other words, once per day or week or whatever period is appropriate, there’s a pvp battle in which everyone chooses a side (attacking or defending or whatever). Whichever side wins the battle gets exclusive access to the raid instance until the next battle. If they want to keep it, they have to win the battle again.

Doing this in a non-faction based system needs a bit more work: is it all members of guilds who participated? How many guild members have to participate to qualify? Etc. but it can probably be worked out.

GW1 had a similar setup. What ever guild was winning the PvP battles gave their region access to the raids. Waiting out side the door for the local team to win so we could go in was fun/frustrating. But mostly fun.

CaptnChuck

@bloodprophet

I don't completely understand what you are saying, but yes, PvP contention is quite fun. But so is PvE content that can wipe your whole group if you don't pay attention or if you don't position/react properly. Is it wrong to want both?

bloodprophet

CaptnChuck wrote: »

What happened @bloodprophet ? I defined it for you. So let me ask you, are you sure that I misunderstood it?

Give people a minute to respond.
Brief internet outage all of the sudden. Like it's the dark ages again.

Tyrantor

They've said that the dungeons are going to scale in difficulty because the game is going to analyze the group(s) ability to clear them and as you go through the "levels" of the dungeon it will adjust to become harder. So if you're looking for the most "intense" PVE experience you'll want to become pro at clearing the dungeons as quickly with no deaths as possible.

Personally I think that should increase the drop rates and quality of items too so people don't just slow play the dungeons.

Since one of the dev teams working on this came from the EQ background it seems reasonable that they will be able to create meaningful and challenging PVE. Alpha - Beta's likely will not shed a ton of light on this however since they want to limit exposure to the end game content.

If you're goal in this thread is to avoid PvP for instanced PvE that doesn't seem to be a game model they're considering and it would defeat the purpose of the systems in place if people could simply hide in PVE instances and "gear up" in peace. Why would anyone then use the open world for it with the added risk of PVP? lol

bloodprophet

CaptnChuck wrote: »

@bloodprophet

I don't completely understand what you are saying, but yes, PvP contention is quite fun. But so is PvE content that can wipe your whole group if you don't pay attention or if you don't position/react properly. Is it wrong to want both?

I think it is wrong to segregate the community for any reason.
But the real trouble we are having and why we are talking past each other is NONE of us has any idea what they have created or are in the process of creating aside from a couple of low level bosses. Look at the dev bios there is a lot of talent and experience there and the COE is a player first game creator second.
This I think warrants a wait and see approach. Is super hard to give constructive feed back on stuff we can only envision / make up in our heads of how it will work.

maouw

CaptnChuck wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

@CaptnChuck

My friend, he's clearly leaning in this direction, but because he used the word "potentially" - it therefore negates all intention?

I'm not gonna argue with you at this level, because, you know, it's that far above me.

It doesn't negate all intention. You said that he intends endgame content to be HEAVILY contested. That's just incorrect. You don't know how contested Steven wants open world content to be.

Above you? Its easy to escape being wrong in an argument by saying that you're "above all this". You ain't above shit. Grow up weeb.

We'll see when the game releases, yeah?

Can I offer some advice? Don't go Ad Hominem. Especially when your insults miss.

CROW3

This thread seems to have devolved from ideas / suggestions on PvE difficulty to essentially two people who are trying too hard to be ‘right’ when about a product that can and will shift back and forth before launch.

Take a step back and breathe.

I remember when GW2 / Rift came out, where open world bosses and dynamic public events were a refreshing change from the raid instance grinding of WoW. I also remember really disliking the instanced content of GW2, which brought us back to WoW. For me, I really enjoy having a balance between open systems (world content) and closed systems (instances). Open systems make the world feel alive, creates new community & contacts, and drives a broader narrative. Closed systems allow a tighter group uninterrupted access to continually refine their play (think of it like an experiment) by eliminating outside variables and focusing on their group’s dynamic in a problem.

It’ll be fun and interesting to see how AoC strikes a balance that adheres to Intrepid’s guiding principles and the predominant player base.

CaptnChuck

@maouw

Contention depends on a lot of factors. The size of the dungeon/raid, the no. of rooms, the difficulty of the content in that dungeon/raid, and the no. of players online at that time.

You can control some of these factors to control just how contested you want a dungeon/room to be. So we don't know how contested a particular dungeon/raid is going to be. To say that its heavily contested right off the bat, without knowing what these parameters are, is just incorrect.

maouw wrote: »

@CaptnChuck
I'm not gonna argue with you at this level, because, you know, it's that far above me.

maouw wrote: »

Can I offer some advice? Don't go Ad Hominem. Especially when your insults miss.

Miss? I thought you said you that you weren't going to argue with me anymore cuz you're "above" my level. Clearly something hit you somewhere to bring you down from up there.

maouw

CROW3 wrote: »

This thread seems to have devolved from ideas / suggestions on PvE difficulty to essentially two people who are trying too hard to be ‘right’ when about a product that can and will shift back and forth before launch.

Take a step back and breathe.

Fair enough.

Thanks for calling it out, hard to see it when I'm doing it.

CROW3

maouw wrote: »

Fair enough.

Thanks for calling it out, hard to see it when I'm doing it.

You bet. 2020 has all of us on edge, so it’s easier to lose perspective now more than ever.

Hang in there.

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