Open world raids

There is not much information about this, but it seems that there is no limitation for the amount of raid groups inside open world raids.

Do you think it is plausible that people will just take every guild member that is online and divide them into 40m raid groups to cheese all bosses by the sheer number of people?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Mojottv

Tragnar wrote: »

This whole forum is just the miniscule minority of vocal individuals. Most players dont give a shit about forum posts - they either play or not

one thing i can agree with you on. But considering that out of those vocal induviduals, only very few share your point of view, says a lot..so @Tyrantor point is still valid...

Tyrantor

Noaani wrote: »

Tragnar wrote: »

This whole forum is just the miniscule minority of vocal individuals. Most players dont give a shit about forum posts - they either play or not

To add to this, most of the longer term posters here have already have this discussion a number of times, and are not that willing to go over the same thing again.

My point was primarily around the fact I haven't had to come back and eat my words (since I said I would) after another 30+ comments I saw that and was like "Oh geez maybe the masses showed up" just to open up the thread and see that it's just you two replying to every post lol.

I mean both of you are going to argue that "No one reads the forums" and "The people that do and have been here this long don't care enough about the topic to post anymore"

These are both convenient stances to take, you understand this right? Self serving excuses for the lack of support on the matter. Neither of you want to consider for a second that you are the minority and/or very few people want this idea? You're just going to dig in and say "They will come"?

Ok.

Noaani

Tyrantor wrote: »

These are both convenient stances to take, you understand this right?

They are, but from your perspective, that would be the case of any stance I take that points out I am right.

I don't much care for support, because this is the third (pr fourth?) time I been in this same discussion. Support of posters on a forum - any forum - has never been a signal that proves anything.

Tragnar

There have been more similar views as ours, but most people stick to only one post alltogether or post few times per month.

Also having 4 active posters (you guys) or 2 means literally nothing.

Don't forget that this is not a clearcut issue where you can be immediately in one camp. Otherwise you would have ton of people posting their likes/dislikes to the topic like in DPS mega thread or dual wielding shields thread.

Most people that have read at least parts of this thread can actually see the problem that we present (Dont let open worlds be easy content clearable by anyone with the only obstacle being PvP) and keeping everything in the open world setting. This makes them quite hesitant because both sides have merit to them.

Tyrantor

Tyrantor wrote: »

just you two replying to every post lol.

LOL You both struck again.

AxelBlaze1

Tyrantor wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

just you two replying to every post lol.

LOL You both struck again.

If you can't have a discussion, go elsewhere. This is supposed to be a place to discuss things. Don't take out your real life frustrations here. Nobody wants to deal with your crap.

Tyrantor

Is this your contribution to the discussion? Great irony. If you want to air our your personal grievances with me you're welcome to PM me, I see you've just created this account name, it's interesting on some level that my reply has you so bothered already. Could you be related to anyone we know here already that, maybe ins't able to reply?

Just a coincidence you've replied to @Bricktop and myself in disagreement in two separate threads within what 4 hours of creating this account? Bravo.

AxelBlaze1

Tyrantor wrote: »

Is this your contribution to the discussion? Great irony. If you want to air our your personal grievances with me you're welcome to PM me, I see you've just created this account name, it's interesting on some level that my reply has you so bothered already. Could you be related to anyone we know here already that, maybe ins't able to reply?

Just a coincidence you've replied to @Bricktop and myself in disagreement in two separate threads within what 4 hours of creating this account? Bravo.

I've been reading on the forums offline for a while now. But this topic truly concerns me as I'm a PvE player, so I decided to participate in the discussion. If the game doesn't have solid PvE content, then I won't be playing it so its the only topic that really concerns me.

Also, it isn't just you either. CaptnChuck, you, Bricktop, all of you guys just made this thread more toxic than what it should have been. And it isn't just this thread either, there's like 3 different ones, all of which became more and more toxic the more you 3 replied to each other. I really feel like you guys need to calm down and take things a little less seriously. No need to hate each other over something that really doesn't even exist yet.

Tyrantor wrote: »

Could you be related to anyone we know here already that, maybe ins't able to reply?

Who exactly are you referring to? Do I remind you of someone? My name is from inazuma eleven, so if you watch anime, then maybe you might recognize my name.

Tyrantor

You've yet to share your opinions on PvE per the thread discussion - go ahead, since you know, it concerns you so much yet my reply above is what you're going to focus energy on?

At this point all you're doing is derailing the topic and since you're singling me out in replies off topic it seems more toxic activity that you're policing?

AxelBlaze1

Tyrantor wrote: »

You've yet to share your opinions on PvE per the thread discussion - go ahead, since you know, it concerns you so much yet my reply above is what you're going to focus energy on?

At this point all you're doing is derailing the topic and since you're singling me out in replies off topic it seems more toxic activity that you're policing?

I posted my opinion on PvE in another similar post, not this one. But to give my opinion briefly, I don't think that PvE content in AoC is going to be challenging enough. I'd love to be proved wrong, but alas, it doesn't look like that is going to be the case.

I'm ok with AoC focusing on a more PvPesque community, but for a game that's trying to redefine the genre, its kind of underwhelming. A lot of the MMO playerbase loves hard PvE content. Not having it just alienates them. A lot of players who love PvP are already playing FPS games, mobas and the like. But there is a large, strong PvE community, that is just waiting for a multiplayer game with good PvE content. The majority of them are playing WoW, as there's simply no other alternative. Not trying to get this playerbase to play your game, just seems like so much wasted potential to me.

mcstackerson

AxelBlaze wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

You've yet to share your opinions on PvE per the thread discussion - go ahead, since you know, it concerns you so much yet my reply above is what you're going to focus energy on?

At this point all you're doing is derailing the topic and since you're singling me out in replies off topic it seems more toxic activity that you're policing?

I'm ok with AoC focusing on a more PvPesque community, but for a game that's trying to redefine the genre, its kind of underwhelming. A lot of the MMO playerbase loves hard PvE content. Not having it just alienates them. A lot of players who love PvP are already playing FPS games, mobas and the like. But there is a large, strong PvE community, that is just waiting for a multiplayer game with good PvE content. The majority of them are playing WoW, as there's simply no other alternative. Not trying to get this playerbase to play your game, just seems like so much wasted potential to me.

Ok, so pvp players can't have or enjoy an MMO. They need to go play Mobas and other fps games. Are you serious? Do you not think there are players who enjoy open pvp content and feel alienated by our current options?

Sorry but you come off as being extremely shitty if you think that ashes needs to change for you because fuck people who like open pvp.

Have you ever even tried to play a game that tried to deliver this kind of experience? Can you at least let the game try something different before saying it needs to do the same thing as everyone else?

AxelBlaze1

mcstackerson wrote: »

AxelBlaze wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

You've yet to share your opinions on PvE per the thread discussion - go ahead, since you know, it concerns you so much yet my reply above is what you're going to focus energy on?

At this point all you're doing is derailing the topic and since you're singling me out in replies off topic it seems more toxic activity that you're policing?

I'm ok with AoC focusing on a more PvPesque community, but for a game that's trying to redefine the genre, its kind of underwhelming. A lot of the MMO playerbase loves hard PvE content. Not having it just alienates them. A lot of players who love PvP are already playing FPS games, mobas and the like. But there is a large, strong PvE community, that is just waiting for a multiplayer game with good PvE content. The majority of them are playing WoW, as there's simply no other alternative. Not trying to get this playerbase to play your game, just seems like so much wasted potential to me.

Ok, so pvp players can't have or enjoy an MMO. They need to go play Mobas and other fps games. Are you serious? Do you not think there are players who enjoy open pvp content and feel alienated by our current options?

Sorry but you come off as being extremely shitty if you think that ashes needs to change for you because fuck people who like open pvp.

Have you ever even tried to play a game that tried to deliver this kind of experience? Can you at least let the game try to be something different before saying it needs to do the same thing as everyone else?

No don't get me wrong. I want PvP players to be able to get as good gear and progress similar to PvE, unlike in WoW. I also want high level crafters to be able to craft top tier gear as well.

I just want all types of players to be able to play the game, not just PvPers. But this is just my opinion. I don't want the game to change to suit my opinion as it isn't my game, its Steven's.

There's no need to be so toxic @mcstackerson . I didn't even say a single bad thing to you and you've already said that I'm an extremely shitty person. Sums this thread up pretty nicely.

Tyrantor

I'm confused how you know so much about the games PVE and how it's already unchallenging. I'm not sure AoC has ever made the statement they are "redefining" the genre. In fact the model they appear to be building is simply some of the better concepts from existing games. I'd say that's a pretty far line from redefining anything.

I've said this before but you do understand that there are millions of WoW players who never had the chance to experience a modern MMO with the general concepts AoC is putting forward. So it's really hard to qualify what they will and wont like, if they've only known white bread and then they get a taste for chocolate they might not be drawn to white bread any longer... Playing WoW doesn't mean the entire population of the game likes raiding bosses and hard NPCs. It's really all the game offers them outside of the gear treadmill that requires you to do those things.

Lastly not every game model is going to fit inside of the economic and political system that will be AoC. I know that's hard to grasp if you come from games that had zero political concept to begin with but you can't just build a bunch of random shit to attract the masses and hope it works. The core aspects of the game are going to be fundamental to the world having purpose past max level.

In fact I'd say that this game replaces a lot of that high end NPC raid content with sieges. Sieges are a much bigger focus in this game as a community draw and world content than NPCs. This does not on any level mean that the NPCs area going to be unchallenging however. If the devs here come from EQ I'm sure they can figure out how to make a NPC hard to kill...

But again if you've got insider information to how unchallenging they are, elaborate on this.

Hurf Derfman

Tyrantor wrote: »

Is this your contribution to the discussion? Great irony. If you want to air our your personal grievances with me you're welcome to PM me, I see you've just created this account name, it's interesting on some level that my reply has you so bothered already. Could you be related to anyone we know here already that, maybe ins't able to reply?

Just a coincidence you've replied to @Bricktop and myself in disagreement in two separate threads within what 4 hours of creating this account? Bravo.

The Care Bear psyop is is becoming more and more apparent. 🙊🙉🙈

mcstackerson

AxelBlaze wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

AxelBlaze wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

You've yet to share your opinions on PvE per the thread discussion - go ahead, since you know, it concerns you so much yet my reply above is what you're going to focus energy on?

At this point all you're doing is derailing the topic and since you're singling me out in replies off topic it seems more toxic activity that you're policing?

I'm ok with AoC focusing on a more PvPesque community, but for a game that's trying to redefine the genre, its kind of underwhelming. A lot of the MMO playerbase loves hard PvE content. Not having it just alienates them. A lot of players who love PvP are already playing FPS games, mobas and the like. But there is a large, strong PvE community, that is just waiting for a multiplayer game with good PvE content. The majority of them are playing WoW, as there's simply no other alternative. Not trying to get this playerbase to play your game, just seems like so much wasted potential to me.

Ok, so pvp players can't have or enjoy an MMO. They need to go play Mobas and other fps games. Are you serious? Do you not think there are players who enjoy open pvp content and feel alienated by our current options?

Sorry but you come off as being extremely shitty if you think that ashes needs to change for you because fuck people who like open pvp.

Have you ever even tried to play a game that tried to deliver this kind of experience? Can you at least let the game try to be something different before saying it needs to do the same thing as everyone else?

No don't get me wrong. I want PvP players to be able to get as good gear and progress similar to PvE, unlike in WoW. I also want high level crafters to be able to craft top tier gear as well.

I just want all types of players to be able to play the game, not just PvPers. But this is just my opinion. I don't want the game to change to suit my opinion as it isn't my game, its Steven's.

There's no need to be so toxic @mcstackerson . I didn't even say a single bad thing to you and you've already said that I'm an extremely shitty person. Sums this thread up pretty nicely.

You said "A lot of players who love PvP are already playing FPS games, mobas and the like." I'm sorry if I came off toxic but if I interpreted what you are saying that pvp players have their games so the game should change to appeal more to pve players. That sounds shitty to me.

I think it's unfounded that the game will have easy pve content because pvp is present. Just because pvp can happen while you pve doesn't mean the content will be balanced around that. This game has content that will appeal to players who enjoy pve. Almost everything comes from the environment so someone will need to farm it. Pvp on the other has no direct rewards associated with it. You don't get honor points for killing someone. Pvp is only a tool you can use to help control the resources available in the world.

The problem with your appealing to everyone argument is you assume what everyone wants and over simply their content desires. You characterize players as pvp, pve, crafting, etc. and based off your categorization, assume that all any player wants is that specific kind of content. Most people aren't that simple. It's like saying that the only thing FPS players want to do is play BRs.

I want what ashes has advertised, the open pve content that can be contested with pvp. Adding instanced pve content with comparable rewards would erode players' incentives to farm in the open-world.

To go deeper, the real reason I want this is because of the social aspect of it. It forces players to interact. There are limited resources so players need to negotiate, either through diplomacy and/or direct conflict. If you are serious about pve in this game, their are times you may need to work with mercenary guilds to keep others away while you do content.

This is what makes the world feel like it's living to me and makes me feel a part of it.

Yes, this game isn't the best for players who are intolerant of pvp or want an easy raid schedule that can't be interrupted but there should be plenty of pve content for players who enjoy it. Even those who don't want to be interrupted may be able to find quieter areas of the map to farm.

AxelBlaze1

Tyrantor wrote: »

I'm not sure AoC has ever made the statement they are "redefining" the genre.

They're looking to remind people what MMOs were like back in the day. Right now, WoW and FF14 define the MMORPG genre, which are very different from previous MMOs. So AoC is looking to redefine the genre to what it was like back in the day.

Tyrantor wrote: »

I've said this before but you do understand that there are millions of WoW players who never had the chance to experience a modern MMO with the general concepts AoC is putting forward. So it's really hard to qualify what they will and wont like, if they've only known white bread and then they get a taste for chocolate they might not be drawn to white bread any longer... Playing WoW doesn't mean the entire population of the game likes raiding bosses and hard NPCs. It's really all the game offers them outside of the gear treadmill that requires you to do those things.

I agree. Most WoW players haven't experienced a game like L2 before. But I disagree with you on the second point. Most people that play WoW or FF14, only play it either, because they are too invested in it already, or because of the solid PvE content. PvP in WoW used to be a lot better previously, but it has gotten a lot worse over the years. And PvP in FF14 is dogshit. So PvE is the only reason a lot of them play these games.

Tyrantor wrote: »

Lastly not every game model is going to fit inside of the economic and political system that will be AoC. I know that's hard to grasp if you come from games that had zero political concept to begin with but you can't just build a bunch of random shit to attract the masses and hope it works. The core aspects of the game are going to be fundamental to the world having purpose past max level.

Again, I agree. The core aspects of the game have already been finalized for the most part, so its going to be difficult to change it to my suggestion, as stated in my previous reply. I just have a different opinion on some of these systems, but then again, it isn't my game. Its Steven's.

Tyrantor wrote: »

In fact I'd say that this game replaces a lot of that high end NPC raid content with sieges. Sieges are a much bigger focus in this game as a community draw and world content than NPCs. This does not on any level mean that the NPCs area going to be unchallenging however. If the devs here come from EQ I'm sure they can figure out how to make a NPC hard to kill...

That's PvP primarily, with a bit of PvE. It isn't pure PvE content. Ashes has a lot of systems that satisfy the PvPers and the crafters. But I don't see any that satisfy PvErs.

Tyrantor

All those replies and nothing to justify the reason you supposedly posted in this thread to begin with, no facts on backing up the unchallenging PVE.

bigepeen

AxelBlaze wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

AxelBlaze wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

You've yet to share your opinions on PvE per the thread discussion - go ahead, since you know, it concerns you so much yet my reply above is what you're going to focus energy on?

At this point all you're doing is derailing the topic and since you're singling me out in replies off topic it seems more toxic activity that you're policing?

I'm ok with AoC focusing on a more PvPesque community, but for a game that's trying to redefine the genre, its kind of underwhelming. A lot of the MMO playerbase loves hard PvE content. Not having it just alienates them. A lot of players who love PvP are already playing FPS games, mobas and the like. But there is a large, strong PvE community, that is just waiting for a multiplayer game with good PvE content. The majority of them are playing WoW, as there's simply no other alternative. Not trying to get this playerbase to play your game, just seems like so much wasted potential to me.

Ok, so pvp players can't have or enjoy an MMO. They need to go play Mobas and other fps games. Are you serious? Do you not think there are players who enjoy open pvp content and feel alienated by our current options?

Sorry but you come off as being extremely shitty if you think that ashes needs to change for you because fuck people who like open pvp.

Have you ever even tried to play a game that tried to deliver this kind of experience? Can you at least let the game try to be something different before saying it needs to do the same thing as everyone else?

No don't get me wrong. I want PvP players to be able to get as good gear and progress similar to PvE, unlike in WoW. I also want high level crafters to be able to craft top tier gear as well.

I just want all types of players to be able to play the game, not just PvPers. But this is just my opinion. I don't want the game to change to suit my opinion as it isn't my game, its Steven's.

There's no need to be so toxic @mcstackerson . I didn't even say a single bad thing to you and you've already said that I'm an extremely shitty person. Sums this thread up pretty nicely.

I think @mcstackerson, like a lot of us, are just tired of promising new MMORPGs that get brigaded by keyboard warriors, dragging the game into a dark pit of meaningless PvE before the game even has a chance to come out. We get it, there are a lot of WoW-style PvE fanboys who think that it is a gift from god and must be shoehorned into every single new MMO or else that game is doomed to failure. I'm sorry, but you guys are partially at fault for the lack of innovation in the genre. The entitlement in thinking that every MMORPG should include a system carbon-copied from WoW, is frustrating and completely blind to people who would prefer a new, more dynamic system. And then to demand that every game needs to cater to PvErs and that you guys are worried about not being able to play one single game, is laughable compared to the state of PvP or PvXers in MMOs.

mcstackerson

AxelBlaze wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

I'm not sure AoC has ever made the statement they are "redefining" the genre.

They're looking to remind people what MMOs were like back in the day. Right now, WoW and FF14 define the MMORPG genre, which are very different from previous MMOs. So AoC is looking to redefine the genre to what it was like back in the day.

...Yes, they have said that from the beginning, they are trying to get back to what they enjoyed about MMOs. With your logic, you want them to redefine the genre by doing the same thing everyone else is currently doing.

AxelBlaze wrote: »

Tyrantor wrote: »

In fact I'd say that this game replaces a lot of that high end NPC raid content with sieges. Sieges are a much bigger focus in this game as a community draw and world content than NPCs. This does not on any level mean that the NPCs area going to be unchallenging however. If the devs here come from EQ I'm sure they can figure out how to make a NPC hard to kill...

That's PvP primarily, with a bit of PvE. It isn't pure PvE content. Ashes has a lot of systems that satisfy the PvPers and the crafters. But I don't see any that satisfy PvErs.

Almost all resources come from PvE. Their are no direct rewards for pvp. Just because pve content isn't instanced doesn't mean it has to be easy.

That's the frustrating thing with this argument, you say you want challenging content and insist that it can't happen unless the content is instanced. For anyone who plays MMOs, should know that's bull. There may be some challenges to having pve content in the open world but to say it's impossible to make it challenging is lazy.

AxelBlaze1

mcstackerson wrote: »

That's the frustrating thing with this argument, you say you want challenging content and insist that it can't happen unless the content is instanced. For anyone who plays MMOs, should know that's bull. There may be some challenges to having pve content in the open world but to say it's impossible to make it challenging is lazy.

A lot of games have tried and failed. Archeage and L2 both had bad PvE content, games that Steven is drawing inspiration from. Open world content isn't as easy to balance as instanced content. I never said that its impossible. But it is definitely difficult. So the skepticism is justified.

Child Item