Gear/Equipment Should Not be Level Locked

Hello, I am a long time MMORPG gamer and I believe equipment/gear level locks ruin the first part of a MMORPG game.

There are a few reasons I feel this ways. First off, lower level gear does not seem as important, until a character reaches level cap. As a player levels, they will continually switch to new and better gear appropriate for their level. This devalues midgame gear and crafting. There is no reason that I would invest my hard earned currency or time in new gear every level. Especially, if the gear I buy is just going to get replaced in 2 hours of gaming when I level up. However, if I put on some gear that has good specs I may wear it for many levels and will be proud of it.

Second, having gear level locked encourages a player to rush to the level cap and not enjoy the ride. A player who is continually reminded that they can not utilize certain items, until level cap, will push as hard as they can to get to the end game. Again, rushing levels prevents players from enjoying the entirety of the game.

Third, level locked gear takes away from the immersion. When a player finds a piece of gear they cannot use, it reminds them they are in a game. Only in a game is someone unable to pick up and put on a pair of boots (supposing they don't have size 15 feet....)

Some may argue that it is unfair for experienced players. New players have not invested the countless hours into the game, and so should not receive good gear a low level. Experienced players may feel that a new player should not be able to have the best gear immediately. However, the only way for a new player to get good gear is for an experienced player to give it to them or for them somehow to come up with enough currency. If an experienced payer gives them the gear then this means they would be working closely with each other (a benefit for the game and all parties involved.) If the new player was able to purchase the gear then they would have earned it. The economy will be player driven which means the better gear will cost a lot...perhaps much more than a new player could shell out.

I believe the game would be much more enjoyable if there were not gear/equipment level locks.

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Rayhotep

Caeryl wrote: »

Rayhoyep wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Or it would drive the price of the good gear up, making it unattainable for low level characters due to supply and demand.

Great and this helps the problem of funneled characters how? Max level crafters making max level gear for their new level 1 characters? Players who buy gold with real money and pay those outrageous prices for maxed gear? Why open up those cans of worms when you can just not do that?

Play the game as it’s meant to be played. Propose reasonable compromises like that level buffer I mentioned when pushing a few levels ahead is doable, but it’s absolutely unreasonable to expect a major and needed stopgap to be completely removed.

Max leveled character are going to make the best gear possible for their alts one way or another. Why is it a problem if people have good gear at low level? It’s an artificial barrier emplaced.

People who do RMT are going to do RMT if they can get away with it. There will always be things to buy with gold in a game and developed accounts to buy. It’s sad but they are going to try. What they buy is irrelevant.

I do like the level buffer and it does sound like it will take longer to level so people will need to care about their gear more than the typical game. I also hope that low gear will play apart in high gear. In reality I completely understand that gear will most likely continue to have level lock. But I really hope they make a way for it to seem relavent. I just created a new character on a MMORPG and I have no clue what gear he’s had for the first 80+ levels. He cycles through it so fast. The low level gear is pointless.

Songcaller

Here's the kicker...I levelled 7 Toons from 1 to 61 in one Month on Black Desert because once I unlocked the Boss Gear on my first 61 I could simply transfer it to my level 1 toons and one-shot mobs. I'm ambivalent about the process but it definitely shortened the levelling process. There was no challenge left after the initial challenge. There were few soul bound or character bound items more family bound items.

I do not mind which way the dice falls in Ashes of Creation but so far I've understood that a main character will be more useful than a ton of Alt Characters.

Godgear

Instead of levels, I prefer having stat requirements

Wandering Mist

Godgear wrote: »

Instead of levels, I prefer having stat requirements

You mean like in Dark Souls where you can only equip certain items if you have enough points allocated to a specific stat? That's great but only works if you can manually allocate the stats however you like, which as far as I know, Ashes won't have.

The issue with unlocking gear to all levels is it makes the game incredibly hard to balance for everyone below the max levels. @Neurath eluded to this with his example of BDO being able to 1-shot everything just because he had max level gear. It makes the levelling completely redundant because without any form of challenge you don't learn anything, and when you can kill a mob instantly just by right-clicking on them once, you have no need to learn what any of your abilities do or how the game works. At that point you might as well get rid of the levelling entirely and start the game at max level.

DeadlyDave

I'm sorry Rayhoyep but if your post was made out of paper id be wiping my arse with it

maouw

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Godgear wrote: »

Instead of levels, I prefer having stat requirements

You mean like in Dark Souls where you can only equip certain items if you have enough points allocated to a specific stat? That's great but only works if you can manually allocate the stats however you like, which as far as I know, Ashes won't have.

The issue with unlocking gear to all levels is it makes the game incredibly hard to balance for everyone below the max levels. @Neurath eluded to this with his example of BDO being able to 1-shot everything just because he had max level gear. It makes the levelling completely redundant because without any form of challenge you don't learn anything, and when you can kill a mob instantly just by right-clicking on them once, you have no need to learn what any of your abilities do or how the game works. At that point you might as well get rid of the levelling entirely and start the game at max level.

I think it could still work with auto-allocated points.
It would make sense if a level 10 fighter can wear chainmail, but a rogue has to level up more before his stats allow him to do the same thing. I guess this would spawn niche builds that could be exploited though.

frostborn4

George Black wrote: »

Im a long time mmorpg player and I dont care if iron sword isnt relevant at lv 50.

I also dont care for lv1 players wearing high end gear. This "encourages players to rush to the level cap and not enjoy the ride."

Seriously what the hell are you talking about?
Gearing up from tier to tier is one of the pillar features of PROGRESSION.

I agree with this; and I also agree that gearing for progression should NOT be 90%+ at 'end game'. Not everyone wants to be end-game level; because that seriously stumps the growth enjoyment getting there.

Honestly; just give every player level-cap characters to start if you are going to make a game based on end-game only. Of course that also means that your entire game is based on level cap, and the 5 minutes to get from lvl 1 to cap. Boring...

frostborn4

Mojottv wrote: »

i really hope that its going to be somewhat similar to lineage 2, where top end gear was very hard to reach long after you hit the lvl cap. So mid game gear was still relevant and it didnt feel like you just wear throwable shit all the time, and you keep switching eq everytime you lvl up.

IMO, worst game-design ever. Why make anything for levels 2-49 then? Whats the point? You will wear 3 sets of equipment your entire character life. The very start to get you from 1 to cap. The easiest at-cap equipment. And finally the best-in-slot end-cap equipment. Wow. so much variety. so much enjoyment. So many grind with nothing new. boring.

Bricktop

frostborn4 wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

i really hope that its going to be somewhat similar to lineage 2, where top end gear was very hard to reach long after you hit the lvl cap. So mid game gear was still relevant and it didnt feel like you just wear throwable shit all the time, and you keep switching eq everytime you lvl up.

IMO, worst game-design ever. Why make anything for levels 2-49 then? Whats the point? You will wear 3 sets of equipment your entire character life. The very start to get you from 1 to cap. The easiest at-cap equipment. And finally the best-in-slot end-cap equipment. Wow. so much variety. so much enjoyment. So many grind with nothing new. boring.

Well in all fairness it worked for Lineage 2 because of the ungodly level grind. You could wear the same set of gear for months before you got enough levels to move into the next grade of armor. It wouldn't really work in Ashes.

frostborn4

Godgear wrote: »

Instead of levels, I prefer having stat requirements

I actually like the idea of having stat-requirements. Lets say, if you have a 'reasonable' stat expectation based on class/role, you can generalize a specific amount of a stat needed to equip a gear.

Now, combine this with a 'within-reason' level advance, and get something like this:

Level 1 Fighter. High STR. Able to wear Heavy armors that are within 15 lvls over the character's level. Receives a small penalty to the armor's stats for wearing under-level: ( (Stat bonus + average modifier for level of gear) / (level armor - character level + 1) ) -- which would not apply as soon as the level appropriate is reached.
Level 1 Wizard. High INT. too weak to wear Heavy armors that are 15 levels or less over the character's level. But can wear Heavy armors that are 2 levels over their character's level. However, their benefit of heavy-played protection will not be as warranted as a cloth robe that offers little to no physical protections, but grants mobility, speed, cast speed, and cooldown speeds of their much-wanted spells. Which of course is reduced by wearing if under-leveld.

frostborn4

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Godgear wrote: »

Instead of levels, I prefer having stat requirements

It makes the levelling completely redundant because without any form of challenge you don't learn anything, and when you can kill a mob instantly just by right-clicking on them once, you have no need to learn what any of your abilities do or how the game works. At that point you might as well get rid of the levelling entirely and start the game at max level.

I agree, and for many other reasons besides just gear. Having the ability to 1-shot everything makes things boring in mmorpg gamestyles. But doing 0 dmg is boring as well; unless theres a major trade off (such as a tank, pulls all agro, does 0 dmg, but takes next to 0 dmg as well).

But when you entirely disregard the leveling process, why not just simply start the game at max level? Honestly? What's the point in even playing the game then? When you look for a new mmorpg, do you look for the ones with the best graphics? Most realistic? Most entertainment value? Biggest fan service? Most explorable world?

Most of these are irrelevant if your game starts with no base. You start out at cap. And the game level of character is dependent entirely on your gear... That makes for a very boring game IMO.

Most of the enjoyment of an MMORPG to me is the journy/leveling process / advancement and growth. None of that 'best gear matters, nothing else' stuff.

FuryBladeborne

Geronimo wrote: »

@FuryBladeborne I really like this concept:

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Low to mid tier gear will remain relevant as top tier gear will require low and mid tier gear to make it;

I saw your references from ashes101 but I could not find anything official from Steven or intrepid on that.

The data from the official wiki that you linked only talks about enchanting which I think is different than upgrading. Do you know anywhere that Steven or intrepid mentions that?

EDIT:

There is this about deconstructing (to get the raw materials from a completed item to create another item). But that also seems different than upgrading because the weapon name and enchantments, etc. would probably not survive deconstruction while you would expect them to with upgrading.

I think this is a good question for the next Q&A.

The Ashes 101 site is run by the content creator Jahlon. He says that everything he uses comes from sound bites. He has a thread on this forum, https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/42174/you-got-questions-we-got-answers/p1

You can ask him where the sound bite reference is if you like.

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