Water mounts negative thoughts

I found that island locations in many mmos, isolated by the treacherous sea and its dangers, are some of the most interesting places that players want to explore.

Crafting a boat (the only means to reach an island alive) and sailing it with friends is so cool. Even solo, the idea of the unknown was such a drive to spend time in crafting a boat and go to that island.

I find that water mounts belittle that aspect of the game.

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Noaani

Archeage had both sea mounts and boats, and Ashes water content seems to be almost completely modeled on that game.

It works in Archeage because mounts are much slower than even entry level boats, and offer up almost essentially nothing in regards to defense or utility. On top of that, mounts are single person, while boats hold multiple people. In a boat you would have one player at the helm, while you have 10 or so others on cannons or lookout duty or what ever. If a boat comes across a player on a mount and decides they want to kill him, there really isn't anything that player on the mount can do.

Again, assuming it is the same as Archeage, sea mounts are only likely to see any real use around shores (due to boats not being able to be summoned at will), and potentially on location at sea based content (using a boat to get to it, and then using mounts once there).

People are unlikely to use mounts to actually go out exploring - unless the entry level boats are prohibitively expensive.

Ehrgeiz

Putting water mounts into a bad position at an early alpha.

volsh

Boats are great, water mounts... not so sure, I'd rather have a challenge or task of having to either build a small boat to traverse smallish areas of water or a larger vessel for longer distances

Merek

If mounts are treated like actual entities that need to be cared for and not a glorified collectible, it shouldn't be an issue. But so far they appear to be an ass-pulled traversal mechanic. If they turn that around though, boats will definitely take the priority for all sea travel, as they should.

George_Black

Merek wrote: »

If mounts are treated like actual entities that need to be cared for and not a glorified collectible, it shouldn't be an issue. But so far they appear to be an ass-pulled traversal mechanic. If they turn that around though, boats will definitely take the priority for all sea travel, as they should.

I wouldn't be so negative about mounts in general if they were more complex than being a simple speed buff. Even water mounts.

GrimmLiberty

Kneczhevo wrote: »

@GrimmLiberty

It's not that "we" are against water mounts. It's that they are making ships invalid.

With your argument; compared to flying mounts. That means there will be less than 20 ships per server. Is this what you imagined AoC to be, with all their energy (development) being put into ships, when mounts will just over ride ships?

Why bother taking a ferry or zeplin, if you can just swim, with your bear, to the next shore? Why bother taking your ship to Atlantis, when you can just take your turtle? So far, ships only offer RP benefits (caravans are not ships, for this conversation), fishing and dancing.

nice try at making a false dichotomy. You know full well I didn't mean there would be only 20 ships per server, nor do you believe that either.

They are a "surface" transport, that avoid all the terrain under them, like a dragon flying over the land, that is all I meant.
Also ships are designed for PvP and PvE, we have been TOLD that they will be "support" for up to 40 man raids in water content.

Then we have the false premise that water mounts will be faster than ships. I mean, do you REALLY think they will be? All this effort and thought on behalf of Intrepid Studios and you think they are that short sighted?

As for why take the ferry or zeplin? Yeah, again, stop lying to yourself. You mean in WoW people on mounts never take flight points? You annoy the hell out of me with your childishness.

Mounts are for exploration and evasion. Their whole purpose is to have a travel mode that you control and don't lose stamina while doing it. The fact Land mounts are faster on land and Water mounts are faster in deep water means there is balance.

Intrepid Studios has given it thought and made choices. They have put man hours into it. While they want our opinions, don't expect it to change. They showed us as a courtesy, because they are excited about it and wanted to share.

All these fantasy nightmares about how things will go wrong make me worried the player base is 15% neurotic murder hobos. LOL just kidding, maybe...

daveywavey

Kneczhevo wrote: »

So far, ships only offer RP benefits ... fishing and dancing.

Hell yes! Sign me up!

CROW3

As long as I can have my kayak, I'm happy.

Arcadia

I think there definitely needs to be massive drawbacks to using water mounts extensively. I agree it really takes away from the naval side of this game which seems to be important to the developers.

T Elf

Think naval vessles as travel on top of water and water-mounts travel under water.

George_Black

T Elf wrote: »

Think naval vessles as travel on top of water and water-mounts travel under water.

Diving, looking for shipwrecks, opening chests, avoiding creatures by hiding on seaweeds emweging back up your boat/ship or whatever is not the same with speeding around on top of some seahorse looking all cute as if in some mario kart underwater stage.

PlagueMonk

I am personally not seeing a conflict.

Ships are for safety and fast water travel, aquatic mounts are for personal exploration and will be a much more dangerous way to get to your water destination. I can't see sea monsters having any specific pathing that will allow a safe "road" so you will have to either do a lot of avoiding or a lot of fighting. Plus you will need something like a water breathing potion which has it's own problems.

If I wanted to reach a somewhat distant point, say a sunken dungeon in the middle of nowhere, sign me up for a boat any day so I can be there in 5 mins instead of taking 15-20 mins on a mount (exact numbers are all speculative of course)

daveywavey

I think it'd be awesome to have a caravan ship being attacked by a bunch of shark-riding pirates. I don't see the problem.

George_Black

daveywavey wrote: »

I think it'd be awesome to have a caravan ship being attacked by a bunch of shark-riding pirates. I don't see the problem.

I think that would be ugly simp looking and would rather a caravan ship be attacked by a pirate ship.
The game is on development and that's my feedback. Against the silliness seen in most mmos right now.

Sathrago

thought id throw my two cents in real quick.

With water mounts they should either not be as fast as boats or make it so that boats are alot safer to ride in vs the natural monsters in an area.

And I heard somewhere that mounts can be killed? Can anyone confirm this? If this is indeed the case well, thats your balancing mechanic right there.

FuryBladeborne

Sathrago wrote: »

thought id throw my two cents in real quick.

With water mounts they should either not be as fast as boats or make it so that boats are alot safer to ride in vs the natural monsters in an area.

And I heard somewhere that mounts can be killed? Can anyone confirm this? If this is indeed the case well, thats your balancing mechanic right there.

They can also be resurrected after a cooldown period.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

George_Black

Do ships get "resurrected"?
Not good enough

Sathrago

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

thought id throw my two cents in real quick.

With water mounts they should either not be as fast as boats or make it so that boats are alot safer to ride in vs the natural monsters in an area.

And I heard somewhere that mounts can be killed? Can anyone confirm this? If this is indeed the case well, thats your balancing mechanic right there.

They can also be resurrected after a cooldown period.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

Fair enough, and it will be my assumption that there will only be a select few types of monsters that can kill a boat, but any can kill a mount. So if the cooldown on the resurrection is severe enough it would really incentivize players to go hop on a ship with some friends rather than get stranded out in the middle of the sea strafing water and waiting for their mount to respawn at the risk of being killed by mobs or other players.

Quick edit: Ships also allow this.

Mariner classes (also referred to as boatsmanship classes, boatsman skills or seamanship) contain different skill trees arranged in a similar manner to Artisan classes. As a player gains experience in these different skills they become more adept at using them.[37]

Gunnery.[37]
Piloting.[37]
Navigation.[37]
Boat repair.[37]
Ship components.[37]
Defensive skills.[37]
Utility based skills.[37]
You can spec into and kind of create your own class based on what things you're doing on the boat... It's gonna be very similar to in structure to like the artisanship trees, so you'll you'll have your mariner class: You'll have different trees in that class.[37] – Jeffrey Bard

George_Black

Sathrago wrote: »

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

thought id throw my two cents in real quick.

With water mounts they should either not be as fast as boats or make it so that boats are alot safer to ride in vs the natural monsters in an area.

And I heard somewhere that mounts can be killed? Can anyone confirm this? If this is indeed the case well, thats your balancing mechanic right there.

They can also be resurrected after a cooldown period.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts

Fair enough, and it will be my assumption that there will only be a select few types of monsters that can kill a boat, but any can kill a mount. So if the cooldown on the resurrection is severe enough it would really incentivize players to go hop on a ship with some friends rather than get stranded out in the middle of the sea strafing water and waiting for their mount to respawn at the risk of being killed by mobs or other players.

Quick edit: Ships also allow this.

Mariner classes (also referred to as boatsmanship classes, boatsman skills or seamanship) contain different skill trees arranged in a similar manner to Artisan classes. As a player gains experience in these different skills they become more adept at using them.[37]

Gunnery.[37]
Piloting.[37]
Navigation.[37]
Boat repair.[37]
Ship components.[37]
Defensive skills.[37]
Utility based skills.[37]
You can spec into and kind of create your own class based on what things you're doing on the boat... It's gonna be very similar to in structure to like the artisanship trees, so you'll you'll have your mariner class: You'll have different trees in that class.[37] – Jeffrey Bard

Imagine having such plans for naval content being slowly ignored because we can ride sharks and cut corners.

I rly hope they do right by ships if they add water mounts.

Sathrago

George Black wrote: »

Imagine having such plans for naval content being slowly ignored because we can ride sharks and cut corners.

I rly hope they do right by ships if they add water mounts.

Oh trust me ill be there right along side you if they make boats obsolete. I'm a fisher for christ's sake I need a boat!

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