Open world raids

There is not much information about this, but it seems that there is no limitation for the amount of raid groups inside open world raids.

Do you think it is plausible that people will just take every guild member that is online and divide them into 40m raid groups to cheese all bosses by the sheer number of people?

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Noaani

Tragnar wrote: »

Do you remember when and on what they talked about instanced raids? afaik they didnt tell us anything in that regard other than having instances for story content primarily

It was in a 2018 live stream.

The question was in relation to how Intrepid wanted instanced raiding in Ashes to compare to WoW. The answer was literally that they plan on having instanced raids, they have staff on the team that have created raids similar to those found in WoW, and would love to compete with WoW in that regard. Then Steven went on to explain how the idea for raids in Ashes was to make them somewhat dynamic - which was the aspect of the answer most people have focused on, forgetting about the first part.

Tragnar

Thanks that's interesting - I doubt that I would find that on video and even then the internal view might have changed - so I really hope that we get some info on raids in any of the upcoming dev talks

- but I think they want to distance themselves from wow in any capacity, because of people that don't care what is actually good for the game and just repeat like robots "not another wowclone"

Noaani

Tragnar wrote: »

Thanks that's interesting - I doubt that I would find that on video and even then the internal view might have changed - so I really hope that we get some info on raids in any of the upcoming dev talks

- but I think they want to distance themselves from wow in any capacity, because of people that don't care what is actually good for the game and just repeat like robots "not another wowclone"

Their plan may well have changed, that is absolutely true.

I do hope not, as it is their comments on raiding (and the comment on not listening to players) that saw me back this game.

I do agree that they don't want to be seen as similar to WoW. They proudly display the games their staff have worked on in the past, yet you won't find anything at all about people that have worked on WoW (even though WoW has seen more game developers work on it than any other MMO).

That is why after Jeff talked about how they want a raiding scene that can compete with WoW, and how they have staff on hand that have developed instanced raids that are comparible to WoW's, Steven went straight in to talking about how they wanted instanced raid to be different to raid content in WoW, and what they were planning on doing to that end.

That was him distancing Ashes from WoW.

Anyways, here is the link. Make of it as you wish.

Kneczhevo

@Noaani

I see your confusion, again. One problem, I see, you are interpretating a coffee table discussion into actual game mechanics.

What they are discussing is; how nodes will effect bosses/ raid encounters (I believe I posted this earlier). This was not discovered, until recently, or at least understood.

As we now know, the surrounding nodes will affect boss abilities (stats, abilities, attacks, etc). That's what they are calling "dynamic".

Up to this date, raid encounters have all been scripted, in MMORPGs. Developers (Blizzard) have confessed; to making scripted bosses, because there is no AI available today make the act naturally. With Intrepids "node buff" system, theses raid encounters will be "more" dynamic, because there will not be two alike encounters, based on nodes. Heck bosses might change mid fight, due to a node changing, for all we know.

Intrepid also said, that treasure and secret passages will be dynamic. Meaning, they will "randomly" placed chests and encounters in dungeons.

This is all an attempt to create variety and stamp out stagnation from static raid encounters, which all games do (with a few exceptions). Also, so Guilds won't be able to "farm" encounters, because the "rotation" will be varied, due to the nodes, in theory.

Tragnar

@Kneczhevo The extent of these "random" elements is to be seen, because every game up to this point has achieved only pseudo random generation and even then the most difference we can see is mostly what dmg type the abilities do and what is the layout of the dungeon. For it to make totally different mechanical tactics is on another level.

If Intrepid was working with the latest neural networks to make tactics more varied then I would be more enthusiastic towards their "randomness" however I do really believe that all we will get is just a different "costume" and "feel" to the same predetermined strategies

Kneczhevo

@Tragnar again, we agree. Until mobs are able to react like a human, mobs will always be scripted.

At least, with AoC using nodes to influence mobs abilities, we have a new feature to influence how these mobs are encountered and react, delivering variety. Breaking the trend, how typical MMORPGs create raid encounters and bosses.

Personally, I don't know of any game, much less MMORPG, that offers this much variety, to raid bosses. Perhaps that's why people can't wrap their heads around; what Intrepid is doing. I get it, you haven't seen it in action, and no foundation to work off of. Then, my question is...

How would you build "dynamic" raid encounters, with our current technology. Heck, Westworld had problems with their mobs. 😁

Tragnar

Tbh I don't think that "dynamic" raid encounters is a goal worth pursuing. I very much prefer handcrafted experiences that are tuned to push players beyond their current boundaries

Noaani

Kneczhevo wrote: »

Noaani

I see your confusion, again. One problem, I see, you are interpretating a coffee table discussion into actual game mechanics.

What they are discussing is; how nodes will effect bosses/ raid encounters (I believe I posted this earlier). This was not discovered, until recently, or at least understood.

You may not have discovered or understood that until recently, but a number of us were discussing and debating it way back on the old forums, over 2 years ago.

But as I said earlier in this thread, that isn't the part I am referring to here, it is what Jeff said before that.

Sure, it was more of a casual conversation, and it would be wrong to hold them to specific details from that, but it is perfectly appropriate to use conversations like this to gain insight in to the general plans they have for Ashes.

When asked about instanced raid content, even if in a causal setting, if they had no plans for it, that is what they would have said. If you ask Jeff or Steven about their plans for guns and cannons in Ashes - even in a casual setting - they will say they don't have plans for either, but then may go in to talking about their plans for ship to ship combat.

The key point there is - if they have no plans for a thing, they will outright say that.

The fact is, they were asked about instanced raiding and how they intend on competing with WoW. The answer was that they have plans for that type of content, would love to compete with WoW in this regard, and that they have people with the appropriate experience on their staff.

Now, as I said above, it would be wrong to hold them to the details. The fact that they have plans for instanced raiding absolutely is something that can be taken away from that discussion - as it isn't one of the details, it was the actual subject matter. It would, however, be wrong to hold then to any specifics as to what they plan on doing with raid content, including their notion of competing with WoW in this regard.

Again, that quote was not bought in to this conversation for any reason other than to point out that yes, Intrepid have indeed talking about their plans for instanced raid content in Ashes (even if only casually), and so people saying that Intrepid have no plans for instanced raid content in Ashes can cease that line of thinking.

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