Are we going to have MORE physics, force, impulse and displacements of actors?

Edited!

Skills that push, pull, repel, attract and displace npc's and players. Other than the chain we have now.

Is a deal breaker for me. I would like more.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Tacualeon

Imagine the spectacle and the mechanical skills if this was in third person.
-Get actor location (sentinel)
-Move to location of the sentinel
-Cast Dragon Kick animation
-Flash (set actor location)
-Animation ends, Apply directional force to enemy (kick)

Positining. Since the force is directional, the 3d position of your character MATTERS!

Push your enemy away, push your enemy toward a cliff, push your enemy toward your friends.

tenor.gif?itemid=14918985

daveywavey

Tacualeon wrote: »

Raising Dragon Kick
-Get (your) Actor Location
-Get (enemy) Actor Location
-Set (your) Actor Location behind the enemy
-Play (Bruce Lee) Audio
-Play ascending kick animation
-Add Force/Impulse on Y axis (ascending)
-Play In Air animation for the victim

"Play (Bruce Lee) Audio" - hahahaha, love it.

Tacualeon

Positioning.

This guy clicked the button for the skill, and during the animation he flashed (teleported)
Since is mechanic, the FORCE isn't applied until the animation ends.
Enemy get stuned out of position.

Positioning, timing, mechanics, cd management, depth, "WOAAAAAAAAAHOOO" e-sports moments.
Something to learn and to bring to 3rd person mmorpg.

Tacualeon

daveywavey wrote: »

Tacualeon wrote: »

Raising Dragon Kick
-Get (your) Actor Location
-Get (enemy) Actor Location
-Set (your) Actor Location behind the enemy
-Play (Bruce Lee) Audio
-Play ascending kick animation
-Add Force/Impulse on Y axis (ascending)
-Play In Air animation for the victim

"Play (Bruce Lee) Audio" - hahahaha, love it.

Tacualeon

Thunder God's trail
-Play jumping animation
-Play Immigrant Song in the background
-Add elevation over time
-Spawn lightning particles
-When touch the ground add circular force
-Spawn lightning particles

A thousand of questions:
Can you get interrupted mid-air, how to adjust to different elevations etc etc.

But a bit of imagination wouldn't hurt alpha and early acces stage

Lore Dynamic

Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

I get it man, you're excited. That's good.

But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

Give them some time....

PlagueMonk

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

I get it man, you're excited. That's good.
But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

Give them some time....

After the last thread using this answer, you are a brave person

This IS however the correct answer.

Nothing wrong with pointing out or asking for things you haven't seen yet but understand we still have TWO years remaining and you do not refine at this stage in the game, that comes later, after everything has been solidly locked in. If we were a year+ further along, then I might start to worry a bit but I think the Devs are doing pretty good considering what they are attempting to create here.

Nagash

*dawn of war 3 flashbacks*

daveywavey

PlagueMonk wrote: »

After the last thread using this answer, you are a brave person

Tacualeon

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

I get it man, you're excited. That's good.
But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

Give them some time....

No Mobas, videogame combat in general is my passion.
16 years of mmorpgs and 8 of competitive Mobas.

In my eyes, videogames are interaction first and audiovisual spectacle second.

Noaani

Tacualeon wrote: »

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

I get it man, you're excited. That's good.
But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

Give them some time....

No Mobas, videogame combat in general is my passion.
16 years of mmorpgs and 8 of competitive Mobas.

In my eyes, videogames are interaction first and audiovisual spectacle second.

See, I put the audiovisual spectacle at about 4th.

First and foremost, MMO's are about interactions with other players, then interactions with the game systems, followed by storytelling. MOBA's need spectacle because that is all they use to pull players in with - MMO's have the persistent world and player interaction, as well as the evolving lore of the game that all add together to be a much more compelling game before you look at the spectacle.

Again though, this game is at least 2 years away from release (I am working on the assumption that it is 3 years away now). Actual class design would happen in the last year, perhaps 18 months, and the design of individual abilities (finished abilities - with augments) shouldn't really happen until after each class's basic design has been completed.

Having ideas for abilities is all good, but again, don't go expecting them to show off any such abilities for a long while yet.

daveywavey

Tacualeon wrote: »

In my eyes, videogames are interaction first and audiovisual spectacle second.

That's what I tell people who are amazed that I don't watch TV. I'd rather be a participant than a spectator.

Tacualeon

Same, I prefer being a participant.
19511384_655469481318506_1478578744352645038_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_eui2=AeGxNx2YdOVZKh8hBpdZcav3iARoNeqGlxCIBGg16oaXENvTauvTJTZO3ANOgNCIQnttXVKloRzDBW-crDv3Z2K7&_nc_ohc=VNJALfzV5U4AX-HdCCD&_nc_ht=scontent.fmvd4-1.fna&oh=db59e4fa02b3277a768e8dfa05fd009e&oe=5FB7547B

19511384_655469481318506_1478578744352645038_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_eui2=AeGxNx2YdOVZKh8hBpdZcav3iARoNeqGlxCIBGg16oaXENvTauvTJTZO3ANOgNCIQnttXVKloRzDBW-crDv3Z2K7&_nc_ohc=VNJALfzV5U4AX-HdCCD&_nc_ht=scontent.fmvd4-1.fna&oh=db59e4fa02b3277a768e8dfa05fd009e&oe=5FB7547B

Tacualeon

Noaani wrote: »

Tacualeon wrote: »

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

I get it man, you're excited. That's good.
But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

Give them some time....

No Mobas, videogame combat in general is my passion.
16 years of mmorpgs and 8 of competitive Mobas.

In my eyes, videogames are interaction first and audiovisual spectacle second.

See, I put the audiovisual spectacle at about 4th.

First and foremost, MMO's are about interactions with other players, then interactions with the game systems, followed by storytelling. MOBA's need spectacle because that is all they use to pull players in with - MMO's have the persistent world and player interaction, as well as the evolving lore of the game that all add together to be a much more compelling game before you look at the spectacle.

Again though, this game is at least 2 years away from release (I am working on the assumption that it is 3 years away now). Actual class design would happen in the last year, perhaps 18 months, and the design of individual abilities (finished abilities - with augments) shouldn't really happen until after each class's basic design has been completed.

Having ideas for abilities is all good, but again, don't go expecting them to show off any such abilities for a long while yet.

I think you have a point.
I also want to make 2 points:
1) Player vs player interaction is like, what? 30-50% of the cool factor of MMORPG.
2) We are in the worst time in human history to undersell spectacle.
The roman coliseum was a thing in 2000 years ago for a reason.
Marvel Cinematic Universe and all the money they have made in the last 10 years.
Mobas made e-sports a thing.
2+2

Just my vision and my showman alter ego

Noaani

Tacualeon wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Tacualeon wrote: »

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

Fact: Tacualeon is very passionate about MOBAS and Spectacles.

I get it man, you're excited. That's good.
But cheez-its, it's Alpha 1. Deveolpers have a lot going on/working on.

Give them some time....

No Mobas, videogame combat in general is my passion.
16 years of mmorpgs and 8 of competitive Mobas.

In my eyes, videogames are interaction first and audiovisual spectacle second.

See, I put the audiovisual spectacle at about 4th.

First and foremost, MMO's are about interactions with other players, then interactions with the game systems, followed by storytelling. MOBA's need spectacle because that is all they use to pull players in with - MMO's have the persistent world and player interaction, as well as the evolving lore of the game that all add together to be a much more compelling game before you look at the spectacle.

Again though, this game is at least 2 years away from release (I am working on the assumption that it is 3 years away now). Actual class design would happen in the last year, perhaps 18 months, and the design of individual abilities (finished abilities - with augments) shouldn't really happen until after each class's basic design has been completed.

Having ideas for abilities is all good, but again, don't go expecting them to show off any such abilities for a long while yet.

I think you have a point.
I also want to make 2 points:
1) Player vs player interaction is like, what? 30-50% of the cool factor of MMORPG.
2) We are in the worst time in human history to undersell spectacle.
The roman coliseum was a thing in 2000 years ago for a reason.
Marvel Cinematic Universe and all the money they have made in the last 10 years.
Mobas made e-sports a thing.
2+2

Just my vision and my showman alter ego

I'm not saying spectacle isn't a thing, I am saying it isn't the main draw for an MMO.

Sure, the masses love Marvel movies, but that doesn't mean that same formula will work for every movie type. Look at what most people consider the top movies of all time, the discussion around that will always contain movies like Citizen Kane, Shawshank Redemption, Schindlers List, The Godfather (1 and 2), Goodfellas, Pulp Fiction, and so on. Sure, that discussion also features some movies like Endgame, LotR, Batman and some of the original Star Wars movies, which are obviously fairly heavy on spectacle, but that list over all should point out that spectacle is not in any way required for a movie to be at the peak of the art form.

What all of those movies do have in common though, is storytelling. Both in the writing and cinematography. They have character development, they have discovery in regards to that story they are telling. When you make a movie that has that spectacle but not the story telling, you end up with something like the current crop of DC movies.

It could even be argued that many of the Marvel movies put spectacle second place to story.

Games, however, are different. Since movies don't have the interactive aspect to them, they need the storytelling aspect. Because games obviously do have this, you absolutely can have games without that storytelling aspect to them and still be successful.

That is why MOBA's are as successful as they are. The storytelling aspect of them has been replaced with the interaction they offer.

MMORPG's however, are essentially the pinnacle of games (ask any game developer - there is more work in an MMO than in any other game genre).

As the pinnacle of the art form, MMORPG's do need storytelling, as well as that interaction. They need an amount of spectacle as well - I am not at all suggesting they don't - but it is not and should not be the focus.

If an MMO developer wanted to make a game where spectacle was the focus, and wanted to attract the type of gamer that puts spectacle as their primary consideration, the game they would make would essentially end out being a MOBA in all but name.

Another aspect of this to point out is in the heritage of each genre. MOBA's are essentially derived from FPS games (as I am sure you know). There is an amount of spectacle to FPS games (especially in the Warcraft 3 era).

MMORPG's on the other hand are derived from MUD's and tabletop games. These games literally have no spectacle at all to them, they literally have nothing at all to look at. That is why the focus of MMO's is in the interaction and storytelling - that is literally all the genre had at it's roots. Stray from that, and you don't have an MMO any more.

As to MOBA's literally making e-sports, yeah, they did - if you exclude Starcraft. But e-sports are the actual most rediculous thing to exist, so that isn't a pro for them as far as I am concerned.

Tacualeon

Noaani wrote: »

movies like Citizen Kane, Shawshank Redemption, Schindlers List, The Godfather (1 and 2), Goodfellas, Pulp Fiction, and so on.

Ashes of Creation is a fantasy game, and my post is about combat in a fantasy game.
The focus become distorted if you bring something like Shawshank Redemption.

If we are going to talk about peak art, Lord of the Ring and Marvel Cinematic Universe are closer to Ashes.

Noaani wrote: »

That is why MOBA's are as successful as they are. The storytelling aspect of them has been replaced with the interaction they offer.

Yes. Peak competitive pvp. Both strategical and mechanical.
Something others genre should take note.

Noaani wrote: »

If an MMO developer wanted to make a game where spectacle was the focus, and wanted to attract the type of gamer that puts spectacle as their primary consideration, the game they would make would essentially end out being a MOBA in all but name.

Spectacle is not the focus. Few people will care about the story if you can't sell the world and the interaction through audiovisual stimulus.
This is a fantasy game, and the post was about combat.

Noaani wrote: »

Another aspect of this to point out is in the heritage of each genre. MOBA's are essentially derived from FPS games (as I am sure you know). There is an amount of spectacle to FPS games (especially in the Warcraft 3 era).

No, they are not. They derived from RTS, Real Time Strategy.
Fps is a whole different genre, almost completely the opposite, actually. As in real-time-mechanics.

Mobas are first strategy, and second mechanical.
Wow pvp is purely strategical cd management with little and simple mechanics.

Noaani wrote: »

MMORPG's on the other hand are derived from MUD's and tabletop games. These games literally have no spectacle at all to them, they literally have nothing at all to look at. That is why the focus of MMO's is in the interaction and storytelling - that is literally all the genre had at it's roots. Stray from that, and you don't have an MMO any more.

And that's why computer games have surpassed by a long shot everything tabletop games have ever offered.
Let's not get confused. Unless you have your friends, at your house, having a barbecue, while playing tabletop games, audiovisual computer games as a channel is the superior choice in every category.

Noaani wrote: »

As to MOBA's literally making e-sports, yeah, they did - if you exclude Starcraft. But e-sports are the actual most rediculous thing to exist, so that isn't a pro for them as far as I am concerned.

Well, that's just biased and subjetive.
Mobas have objetively dominated the scene for the last decade.

If you want a story, grab a book. I'm talking about combat in a fantasy setting and about taking it to the next era because that's the area I want to specialize.

I think we could learn from cinema how to deliver awesome fight scenes through audiovisual stimulus. The players are the first spectators and they deserve to feel powerful and look good while fighting.
4307510-iron%20man%20gif%202%20%281%29.gif

4307510-iron%20man%20gif%202%20%281%29.gif

Nagash

You did not just put the MCU in the same category as LOTR. How dare you.

Tacualeon

I did.
LOTR is the culmination of historical fantasy trend Gladiator started in the 2000s.
MCU and Avengers is the culmination of superhero fantasy trend Iron Man started in 2010.

There is also a curious paralel between Wow/mmorpg trend dominating in the 2000s.
And Mobas trend dominating in the 2010s.

Studying history help us predict the future

Nagash

Tacualeon wrote: »

I did.
LOTR is the culmination of historical fantasy trend Gladiator started in the 2000s.
MCU and Avengers is the culmination of superhero fantasy trend Iron Man started in 2010.

There is also a curious paralel between Wow/mmorpg trend dominating in the 2000s.
And Mobas trend dominating in the 2010s.

Studying history help us predict the future

I don't say this normally but that is HERSEY

Noaani

Tacualeon wrote: »

No, they are not. They derived from RTS, Real Time Strategy.
Fps is a whole different genre, almost completely the opposite, actually. As in real-time-mechanics.

Mobas are first strategy, and second mechanical.
Wow pvp is purely strategical cd management with little and simple mechanics.

Yeah, wrong acronym, my bad. That's what happens when you type out a post with a few dozen work issues going through your mind. Though, I will point out that I did single out Warcraft 3, so had the correct genre (specific game, no less), just the wrong acronym. DotA while it was still an oddball mod for Warcraft 3 was the last MOBA I played.

Either way, the point I am making, that seems to have gone well over your head, is that the bulk of the MMO playerbase don't put spectacle high on the priority. They put things like storytelling, player interaction, and how combat feels well above how combat looks.

MOBA's put how combat looks higher because they need the game to look good - if people stopped watching MOBA's, those that play them would soon realize that they are not actually overly enjoyable games to play. Due to this, MOBA developers place a high value on spectacle.

Since Intrepid have zero e-sport intentions in relation to Ashes, there is no need to amp up the spectacle value. Everyone that is watching the game should also be playing the game, and so how combat feels should trump how it looks - but even that should fa behind other factors specific to MMO's (in regards to MOBA's, at least) like storytelling.

And again, if Intrepid were wanting to pull in the MOBA crowd, they would be making a MOBA.

Child Item