A class I would love to see: Druids

Hello all,

Understand that I am not a developer and I don't have a firm grasp on the challenges of such. My ideas are merely wishful thinking and I believe the plans that Intrepid has for this game are already amazing and redefining. I wish them all the best and hope to see this game continue to progress in it's trail-blazing path.

Having been enchanted with fantasy games, as well tabletop and forum roleplaying(D&D, Pathfinder, World of Darkness, T1, etc.), I have always found myself drawn to three specific types of paths/classes; Rogues, Sorcerers and most of all, Druids. Not only do I believe it would add another level of dynamic to the game when considering most games falling into the trap of religion dominating healing and support(Yes, I know the bard exists, though they fall into another niche entirely in my humble opinion.) Personally, I find myself drawn to either very specific kinds of gods(See Raven Queen, Mielikki, etc- enigmatic, usually less zealous/order/dominant gods, as it feels more freedom-driven and personally progressive, rather than falling into a set of ideals based on factions that have a stone-set agenda...I believe Druids(As well as Rogues/Sorcs...you can probably see a trend in my preferred classes.) define this better than most. In D&D, a Druid doesn't have to worship a god. They can instead venerate nature on their own terms or be blessed by one of the first-born's court(Fae), etc. They create their own path and their own interpretation to how they may venerate and protect the balance of nature. Where some druids may hold hatred towards civilization, another may work as an advisor to a village or cities leadership on how they might form a symbiotic relationship with the surrounding forest.

In summary, I believe it would not only bring it's own solution to multiple facets of the game; combat, roleplay, identity, etc...but also bring about more options- Rogues that can inflict poisonous damage through their Druidic subclass, Summoners who can call upon nature as their ally, Mages that gain a more...wild tone to their magic, etc. I feel like those possibilities, if not explored during the initial endeavors of this games undertaking, remain as solid choices for future content.

If you got this far, thank you for reading through my rant, and please feel free to comment, constructively criticize my view-point and offer up your own, etc. I'd love to hear what other people think about this kind of thing. Nothing is better than knowing more now than you did yesterday.

"Remember, perception is simply what we see of reality. Yet reality is what we strive to perceive." -Some Nerd

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Raen Elvarasi

I'm pleasantly surprised to see how many people find my viewpoint agreeable. Hopefully it is a task the developers will undertake in due time.

Atama

CROW3 wrote: »

I was kind of hoping that the 'magical' sub-classes for the Ranger would head toward a version of Druid.

To me the fact that they didn’t do this opens up the probability that they want to leave themselves the option of adding it later as a whole new archetype.

PlagueMonk

Atama wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I was kind of hoping that the 'magical' sub-classes for the Ranger would head toward a version of Druid.

To me the fact that they didn’t do this opens up the probability that they want to leave themselves the option of adding it later as a whole new archetype.

Well, lets play out the braingame......what would the sub classes be if they added Druid as a archetype?

Nagash

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I was kind of hoping that the 'magical' sub-classes for the Ranger would head toward a version of Druid.

To me the fact that they didn’t do this opens up the probability that they want to leave themselves the option of adding it later as a whole new archetype.

Well, lets play out the braingame......what would the sub classes be if they added Druid as a archetype?

One would have to be branchwraith

PlagueMonk

Nagash wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I was kind of hoping that the 'magical' sub-classes for the Ranger would head toward a version of Druid.

To me the fact that they didn’t do this opens up the probability that they want to leave themselves the option of adding it later as a whole new archetype.

Well, lets play out the braingame......what would the sub classes be if they added Druid as a archetype?

One would have to be branchwraith

Well we have:

Bard / Druid -
Cleric / Druid -
Fighter / Druid -
Mage / Druid -
Ranger / Druid -
Rogue / Druid -
Summoner / Druid -
Tank / Druid -

Druid / Bard -
Druid / Cleric -
Druid / Fighter -
Druid / Mage -
Druid / Ranger -
Druid / Rogue - Branchwraith?
Druid / Summoner -
Druid / Tank -

Druid / Druid -

Raen Elvarasi

Word of warning: I have not slept well in a while due to ongoing issues related to an ongoing transition in my life. Saying that, this will be a very rough draft of ideas on the matter. Honestly, I'm probably going to try and flesh out the entirety of this idea at a later date, and see if I could potentially submit it to Intrepid. But as I said, this current variation is not my proudest work. So my apologies. I simply didn't want to wait any longer.

Druid/Druid: Archdruid(Most likely focusing on further augmenting abilities for damage, healing or shapeshifting.
Druid/Bard: Voice of the Forest(Best I could think of at the time.)(Probably augmented healing and buffing format to be added to abilities; IE, a AoE entangle/thorns ability could also give allies a damage buff as that type of damage.)
Druid/Cleric: Nature Soul(Hehe. Divine Soul, but nature-ified.)(Most likely to lean heavily into healing- can still see an interesting path for the Death subtype though. Probably things like debuffs and life-drain healing.)
Druid/Fighter: Fury(Most likely to take a more brutal approach to shapeshifting augments and forms.)
Druid/Mage: Wildfire Druid(Could see this being an interesting take on a more destructive form of spellcaster Druid.)
Druid/Ranger: Pathfinder(Most likely utility and ranged damage augments to create debuffs and traps while also increasing range of attacks and movement.)
Druid/Rogue: Moonpath Druid(Most likely a moonlight stalker kind of mashup. Stealthy shapeshifting and the like.)
Druid/Summoner: Forest Caller(Augmented abilities to summon creatures when used. IE, when using a thorn/entangle, it instead summons a number of small, weak thornlings that harass enemies, slowing, etc.)
Druid/Tank: Grove Guard(Most likely to take on beefy shapeshifting, like bear forms and other large beasts you wouldn't want to ignore.)

As for the rest of the classes taking Druid as an Archetypes...
Bard/Druid: Aviarius(Most likely changing buff style and effects, as well as potentially offering this in the form of bird companions that continue the song for some time after the bard has stopped.
Cleric/Druid: Pagan(Idek, I can't think right now.)(Most likely augmenting abilities, especially healing. I could see it adding HOTs to healing spells, other types of damage and effects to attacks, etc.)
Fighter/Druid: Savage(Most likely adding natural damage and effects, like causing roots to grapple a target when charged.)
Mage/Druid: Storm Soul(Again, I feel these augments would be simple but fun. Thinking along the lines of lightning abilities summoning storms, or a fireball leaving a ashen field that turns into a patch of entangling vines, spells augmented by strong gusts of wind or natural or moon-like effects.)
Ranger/Druid: Forest Watcher(Augmented traps that spread into a field of natural vines and thorns, inflicting slows and poison, arrows that entangle, poison or create a beacon of moon-like light around them, making it impossible for them to hide and increasing hit-chance against the target, etc.)
Rogue/Druid: Stalker(Most likely augmented poisons and debuffs. Entangles, natural weapons like thorns of even a predator that strikes out of nowhere. IDK. I'm tired. XD)
Summoner/Druid: Forest Caller(Summons leaning more into natural, if not magically natural summons and augments...Think treants, fae(Or equivalent), etc.)
Tank/Druid: Bearer of Thorns(As the name suggests, I imagine a tank who can reflect damage and cause debuffs when hit.)

I'm more than open to ideas, comments, critique, etc. Please post away.

Raen Elvarasi

I tried to keep most things centered around one ability(Because said ability is a staple of almost any druid format.). Saying that, any other ideas would be lovely. I'll be on and off the forum as I work on other things I should be doing rather than fangirling over a game I sadly can't play yet.

neuroguy

I like the idea of shapeshifting being the core component of a druid. It is very unique, gives them identity and can be changed via augments to be a more spell-casting type of form or more up in their face.

Just gonna build on/propose alternatives to some of your ideas @Raen Elvarasi

Druid/Bard
There is music in nature, in the river and the rustling of the leaves. The form would be an embodiment of earth itself, a mish-mash of mud, branches, flowing water and wind (kind of like a mud elemental). Spells, plants, etc that are created by the druid have an aoe buff around them, this should include the druid itself (like an aura).

Druid/Cleric
You take the form of a great elk. Depending on the augments chosen though, it will either be a majestic one or a ghastly skeletal one. All spells should embody the cycle of life and death (think of the forest spirit from princess mononoke). If a spell creates vines, the vines would then die and have some after effect. Depending on the augments chosen you can choose to lean in more heavily on the life creation part of the spell or the death and decay part. For example you create some vines on the floor that at first give some protection buff to allies but then die and decay and put a dot on enemies. Augments can buff or elongate one component of the life or death of the spell.

Druid/Fighter
Should have multiple shape shifts available with different flavors offensively like slow and hard hitting or fast and rapid fire and defensively like resistance to fire vs ice or the like. I think of fighters as versatile and experts of many weapons so a fighter secondary should provide you with options of shape shifting forms to best suit any opponent.

Druid/Mage
Shapeshifting form should look like a flower with some elemental flavor depending on the augments chosen and the spells of the druid will be influenced by that element.

Druid/Ranger
Shapeshifting form should be some human/animal hybrid like the goat dude from the lion the witch and the wardrobe. Don't really have too many thoughts on this one though.

Druid/Rouge
Shapeshifting: you guessed it, some black panther. Also not many thoughts here

Druid/Summoner
Shapeshifting form should be a tree or a mushroom and abilities should attract insects of different kinds to them. So if you cast some vines, it will attract giant beetles that you don't control but that will attack mobs in some area around the vines. Or your spell termination point attracts non-targetable flies that will put a DoT on nearby enemies.

Druid/Tank
Shapeshifting form should be, that's right, not a bear haha. I think a monkey would work great here actually. Because you don't necessarily want the druid to be a proper tank which a bear or a turtle or something would suggest but the monkeys abilities would be mocking and generate aggro while still being beefy relative to the other shapeshifting forms that could allow for grapples/CC. So it would be a decent off-tank option.

Raen Elvarasi

I definitely love your take on things. At a point in time where I am a little more cognizant I'll be sure to see what I can do with that information. Again though, definitely great points to be made. Though I would argue that a druid, though they shouldn't be on par with a dedicated tank, I feel that leaning into it should be a big theme with something like the Tank subclass. Bears, Gorillas, Bulls, etc. A bear doesn't have the same hardness as a shield, nor does a gorilla, though they do offer more beefiness than a monkey. Afterall, I've seen monkeys get their s**t kicked in by snakes, badgers, predator cats, etc. They tend to survive by not being somewhere they can be reached when push comes to shove.

Osire

yeah, because another main type class, and 16 more classes is really what we need

Nagash

Osire wrote: »

yeah, because another main type class, and 16 more classes is really what we need

But that's the whole point of RPGs, its to become who you want to be so yeah more options are better

Sathrago

Osire wrote: »

yeah, because another main type class, and 16 more classes is really what we need

Sweet man glad you support the idea.

Atama

Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.

maouw

Atama wrote: »

Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.

I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.

neuroguy

@Raen Elvarasi
Yeah I kind of meant primate, I was picturing a gorilla when I was writing that

Osire wrote: »

yeah, because another main type class, and 16 more classes is really what we need

Strange thing to say. We don't really know much about the game still so it's hard to say what we need. Maybe you mean we need another forum post about how open world PvP isn't fun or that open world dungeons and raid can't be challenging? Or just complaining about how the game is taking too long?

maouw wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.

I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.

Yeah this is a discussion on its own of how unique each "class" really will be. Personally I am completely in agreement with Atama in my prediction but we will see.

Amma

The best thing at this system is, that every new Archetype brings something for every "old" archetype and that the numbers of new classes are jumping farther and farther. 64 -> 81 -> 100 -> 121 -> 144
For the programmers this must be crazy, but for the player its heaven :-)
But to be real, if they make everything we can think of already through augments, then we can forget this whole idea of more archetypes.

I think it would later be easier to make something that no one is talking about: More Augments!
If the comunity is demanding a druid, then simply put some nature augments in the game and tadaaa....

Sov54

I mean, it would be viable adding a new archetype if it is only the main one to form a class and the secondary the basic ones we have. This way it would increase linearly (8+1(if we allow new/new, for example: archdruids))

Otherwise, adding new archetypes as secondary roles to all previous classes would be exponentialy not viable.

Atama

maouw wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Adding classes or professions or whatever is a natural form of growth for an MMORPG. Just remember that “class” is purely a marketing term so that Intrepid can say, “PICK FROM 64 CLASSES!!!!111” They aren’t actually classes; the 8 classes in the game are what Intrepid calls archetypes. This is really just adding a 9th class to a game that has 8. Don’t be fooled by Intrepid’s brand of Newspeak. The “classes” are just specializations of classes.

I think this this depends on how big of a difference the augment makes to the way each class plays.
E.g. if an augment makes a mage tanky and turns all their spells into melee range attacks, that's a very different mage to the classic elemental mage.

None of the examples that have been given about augments so far suggest it’s anywhere near that. We’ve been given examples like a fighter’s charge attack teleporting to an enemy rather than running, or a mage’s fireball spell summoning a small fire elemental instead of a direct attack. Basically, small tweaks that give flavor to a character, not something that dramatically changes the way the class works.

I’d expect that mage to gain some minor shielding abilities to increase survival rather than suddenly transforming into a tank. Otherwise Intrepid has been really holding out on us or took the game in a new direction in the course of development. (Not impossible but once we start speculating that the game is going to turn out differently than we’ve been told, we can’t really trust anything anymore.)

So far all of the info suggests that a “class” in Ashes is more like a talent tree or specialization for a class in a typical MMORPG. Which still opens up a lot of variety; imagine that WoW had 8 different talent trees per class instead of 3. That’d be huge! It should still be a strength for this game if done correctly. But it isn’t like having 64 actual classes in a game like WoW.

(And add onto that the further changes to a character due to race and weapon choice... You really can find variety.)

Amma

If we had something like 8 talent trees per archetype, this would be wonderfull, because then we would realy have 64 different classes, but as you said before, it looks like that it will be far less than that. The fireball will still be a fireball at different augments i think with the little difference that one augment makes it burn hotter, the second augment makes it spread fire on nearby enemies, the third augment slows the enemy a little...... and so on, but its still a normal fireball.
I cant know that for sure, but thats what it looks like from what we heard from Steven about the augments of the warrior.
I realy hope that i am wrong about this.

Raen Elvarasi

From what I can tell, pulling from the wiki, most of it is pretty simple, with some exceptions. On the topic of fireballs, a Mage/Summoner, when they use an augmented fireball, it instead turns into a fire elemental for a period of time. For most things though, it looks like it simply takes key components of the secondary class, and mixes it with the primary class skills when augmented. So, they are essentially re-writing bits of code for damage, damage type, effect and duration, etc. On top of this, visuals would change. If those visuals are pre-existing assets or modified assets, I don't think it would be an insane project. Though if they are creating something from the ground up, it could definitely add a little bit more work.

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