PVP does not seem that rewarding

Hey all, first time poster here. As a background, I have played a smidge of WOW, but for the most part my background is from Runescape, which I have played for 10+ years. AOC has really caught my eye, and I am excited for it.

The reason I bring up that I am from Runescape, is because I think Runescape has a vastly different play style than many MMOs when it comes to PVP. I have played Runescape PVP and created many builds, and quite enjoy it.

Everyone seems extremely shocked that killing people can give some drops in the form of hunting certificates, as if stealing loot from the players you kill is an insane notion. From my understanding, killing a player of an opposing faction did not do anything more than inconvenience the opposing player, which is why this is a game changer. Meanwhile, in Runescape, if you kill someone in PVP, you take nearly all of the gear that the opposing player has on them. Much more punishing, and conversely, rewarding. I understand that there is the corruption mechanic for dropping items, but this feels like more of a deterrent from PVP than a drive for it.

To me, while it might be somewhat appealing to engage in PVP sometimes, I don't feel like it is very appealing to create a PVP build. In WOW, you at least (to my understanding) had arenas, which created an esports-y feel to it which would appeal to PVP players' competitive spirits. From what I can understand, many people solely play or watch MMOs for the PVP experience, so I'd hope that there are more than just these guild/node attacks for PVP.

tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.

PS: not hating on anything, just offering up some observations on what I've seen so far. Pumped for this game, really!

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

CROW3

Welcome, Leh. Kick your feet up and join any and all discussions. This is a fairly healthy community.

If you haven't had a chance to review the wiki article on pvp, here's a link.

Enjoy!

Noaani

Leh wrote: »

tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.

The goal of Ashes in regards to PvP is less about having players kill each other in the open world (though that absolutely is a thing, and if you do enjoy it, go for it), and more on encouraging people to PvP in activities like caravans, guild and node wars and sieges.

As far as PvP activities go, these should be fairly rewarding.

Leh

CROW3 wrote: »

Welcome, Leh. Kick your feet up and join any and all discussions. This is a fairly healthy community.

If you haven't had a chance to review the wiki article on pvp, here's a link.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the link Crow, I hadn't read the part on Arenas.

Leh

Noaani wrote: »

Leh wrote: »

tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.

The goal of Ashes in regards to PvP is less about having players kill each other in the open world (though that absolutely is a thing, and if you do enjoy it, go for it), and more on encouraging people to PvP in activities like caravans, guild and node wars and sieges.

As far as PvP activities go, these should be fairly rewarding.

Yeah it seems that way, 1on1 combat does not seem to be the focus, which is kind of a shame for me personally but fair enough if that's the game design.

Along with RS I also like fighting games like SSBM, so I like the idea of one-on-one encounters.

George_Black

What other pvp mmorpgs have you played in addition to runescape?

Tacualeon

Pvp is my favorite part, but I dislike that idea of stealing peoples objects.

I invite you to meditate what's actually rewarding about pvp.

For me, the value and reward of pvp is interacting with another players, not stealing their things.

PlagueMonk

Noaani wrote: »

Leh wrote: »

tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.

The goal of Ashes in regards to PvP is less about having players kill each other in the open world (though that absolutely is a thing, and if you do enjoy it, go for it), and more on encouraging people to PvP in activities like caravans, guild and node wars and sieges.

As far as PvP activities go, these should be fairly rewarding.

Agreed. AoC isn't removing the ability to kill others in open world, only discouraging it a bit with the corruption system. The real PvP rewards come by way of more organized events.

The biggest problem I have with full gear lootability is, it actually encourages players to be a$$holes (see New World for how PvP was done wrong) while at the same time DIScouraging many from wanting to play.....So you spend all that time farming for that great gear only to have someone PK you and loot it off you. You THEN have to resort to wearing crap gear all the time so as to avoid losing that greet stuff, thus pretty much defeating the purpose of getting it in the first place.

Tyrantor

Leh wrote: »

tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.

PS: not hating on anything, just offering up some observations on what I've seen so far. Pumped for this game, really!

Hey bud just want to clarify the hunting certs or "notes" per your tldr. This is the games version of gold drop from mobs though instead of gold you have to then sell the certs, it's localized so different certificates will be worth more than others based on geographic location in the world, which means instead of getting 1gp for every wolf kill you could theoretically transport this to another region where it sells for 5gp per.

With that said, you will gain additional loot if they have raw materials for crafting and items from the players mule. So while you may not get their equipped gear it's way better than most games.

Lastly they would have to rework their entire economy to account for players losing full sets of gear on death which would then need to devalue crafted gear substantially. In addition to this the game would likely require them to adjust the travel system to include substantially more fast travel options so people could re-gear after a death.

While I personally like the idea of full loot I do not believe it sits well with the current overall design of the game and would not want them to adjust it. If anything I would however vote for finished item drops from characters bag(s).

Kionashi

full loot pvp is fun until it isn't.....if you grind your butt to afford buying that legendary sword that will help you do end game content and when heading out of your node you get ambushed by 8 people that trash you and steal your sword you will have the perfect recipe for a rage quit.

Sathrago

Kionashi wrote: »

full loot pvp is fun until it isn't.....if you grind your butt to afford buying that legendary sword that will help you do end game content and when heading out of your node you get ambushed by 8 people that trash you and steal your sword you will have the perfect recipe for a rage quit.

Albion online in a nutshell.

FuryBladeborne

Leh wrote: »

...so I'd hope that there are more than just these guild/node attacks for PVP.

tldr; Engaging in PVP for some hunting notes seems too boring to keep a PVP player engaged with the game for a long amount of time.

Types of PVP.
Open world (you can attack and kill anyone, virtually anywhere)
Castle sieges
Node sieges (Loot a portion of all the stored materials in the node)
Objective based guild wars.
Other social organizations wars
Caravans
Naval PVP
Arenas

The rewards between different PVP vary a bit, but are focused on taking the defeated player(s) raw and refined materials. Since the great majority of all equipment will be crafted, crafting materials should retain a high value.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

Maezriel

Leh wrote: »

To me, while it might be somewhat appealing to engage in PVP sometimes, I don't feel like it is very appealing to create a PVP build. In WOW, you at least (to my understanding) had arenas, which created an esports-y feel to it which would appeal to PVP players' competitive spirits. From what I can understand, many people solely play or watch MMOs for the PVP experience, so I'd hope that there are more than just these guild/node attacks for PVP game, really!

Arena's in WoW also decimated the balance of the game as it changed it from large group PvP and focused on smaller fights. This in turn caused huge issues where balancing a skill to be fair in an Arena could make it useless in PvE and vice-versa. Also, there's almost no reward for World PvP in WoW which means when you're getting camped (and there's no downside for the camper) while out questing it's solely b/c the guy camping is just being an ass.

At least w/ the risk/reward system of loot drops and corruption you're not forced to just log off due to the actions of one person and there's a legitimate reason to engage in PvP.

I really don't want Arenas to be anything more than a side game. If the world of Verra is supposed to be the main content then having something where people just sit in town and wait for a queue goes strictly against that. If people want an esports feel then caravans are a classic version of a "protect the payload" game and we don't yet know how exactly sieges will look.

Sorcres

I also hope that the Arenas will be more of a bonus affair and the main PvP will move in the open world. As soon as you are very interested in Arenas, the Open pvp will fall.

PlagueMonk

Sathrago wrote: »

Kionashi wrote: »

full loot pvp is fun until it isn't.....if you grind your butt to afford buying that legendary sword that will help you do end game content and when heading out of your node you get ambushed by 8 people that trash you and steal your sword you will have the perfect recipe for a rage quit.

Albion online in a nutshell.

I actually had a very similar experience in SB (Shadowbane, don't know if anyone remembers that MMO).......SB was full on PvP with player driven city building, sieging and subsequent razing to the ground. You could also do so at any time of day. Only bring spot was, no full loot but it didn't matter in the end.

So one afternoon I log in to find the city I had been helping build for the last 2 months was razed to the ground, all that hard work, effort and cash gone. As we were logging in we were also being hunted down and killed. The thing about SB was, each death your armor would degrade and people were camping the graveyard so I would re-spawn, be killed again and again until literally my equipment fell off me. I had no interest in repeating that process so I started searching for a new MMO that day.

Tyrantor

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I actually had a very similar experience in SB (Shadowbane, don't know if anyone remembers that MMO).......

Seems like you and I had very different experiences in that game. I played it for 10+/- years.

daveywavey

Tyrantor wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I actually had a very similar experience in SB (Shadowbane, don't know if anyone remembers that MMO).......

Seems like you and I had very different experiences in that game. I played it for 10+/- years.

Were you the graveyard camper?!

Tyrantor

Lol that's not really fair terminology for the siege process in that game as the defenders would be respawning at the center of their city during an active siege and if the attackers had breached the walls/defenses they would likely be in the same spot as the final objective was to destroy their "Tree of life" that all the defenders would then re-spawn at.

What he describes in terms of the respawn killing was mostly only present in that scenario outside of sieges if you're bound to your guilds city it was very uncommon for people to be in position to camp your spawn. The loss of the cities in that game was the primary reason for the population to constantly decrease as the cost/upkeep for the cities was a massive undertaking to lose in a few hour siege especially since the cost to siege the cities was relatively insignificant.

McShave

The goal I see for open world PvP is that there is an objective that other players are blocking you from getting, so you can kill them. Thinking open world dungeons and raids, and there's another group that you are competing with for a boss. Or a major gathering spot and you see someone else taking your gatherable goods. Kill them, take their goods and the rest of the gatherables.

insomnia

The Pvp is ment to have meaning and not just for people to run around ganking, killing low level players. People can drop gathered materials, if i'm not mistaken

PlagueMonk

Tyrantor wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I actually had a very similar experience in SB (Shadowbane, don't know if anyone remembers that MMO).......

Seems like you and I had very different experiences in that game. I played it for 10+/- years.

Please don't tell me you were a member of the DHL

I played SB from day 1 for about a year until the incident. I had cities razed before but the graveyard camp thing was the last straw for me. Experience was probably different time/ different server. I don't remember dates or servers anymore though.

Child Item