The Gift of Life - Cleric Alpha One Preview

💖 Can you master the balance between life and death? ☠

Meet the Cleric and learn more about the power they wield from level 1-10 in our Alpha One preview: https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2020-11-02-the-gift-of-life-cleric-alpha-one-preview

https://youtu.be/7AHwGp-t27M

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daveywavey

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

maouw

daveywavey wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

Right!
But physically hurling a hammer head over hilt like a tomahawk doesn't have the gavel spirit.

I guess there's no clean way to slam a gavel without making the gavel an enormous size.

daveywavey

maouw wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

Right!
But physically hurling a hammer head over hilt like a tomahawk doesn't have the gavel spirit.

Hahahahaha, that'd deter a lot of criminals, I'm sure!

Leiloni

Amma wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons.

Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow.

I wouldn't consider Disc a passive healer. They definitely directly heal and require a lot of skill, they just do it mostly via placing a buff on their targets and then using damage to heal. With Disc you're still very much actively choosing targets, strategically choosing which skills to use and when. And the fact that that damage to heal buff is a short term, single target buff only adds to the skill and decision making required. It's definitely in the category of traditional active healer. Nobody just passively gets healed from a Disc Priest in WoW - you only get healed after the Priest has gone through a lot of effort and a lot of button presses to get there.

daveywavey

You know what, I'd love to hear a bigger explosion at the end of Exorcism. That'd be awesome! Hope that gets put in.

Leiloni

maouw wrote: »

Overall, I feel a bit overwhelmed by the number of spells available at level 10.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the caster visual effects - but like others have said, I still want to cast while moving or interrupt spell casting if needed.
Some of them look like they could be advanced spells?
Castigation (the shiny whip) - can this be a skill we can press 3 times? So we can lash left, right, and then a slightly stronger final hit? (and the whip can burst away in the final hit). Windup is a bit too long on this skill, spreading out the damage so that more of the total damage is in the third final hit gives players something to counterplay with other than windup animations.

Benediction (chain heal) - looks too much like an electrical attack at the moment - can I suggest much softer curved lines and more blurred? With heals specifically, can we turn off gravity on the particles and instead make them rise? I think the character pose goes really well with this electric style spell - but perhaps would work better on an electric mage. The idea of a chain heal is good though!

Hallowed Ground (AoE heal+damage) - the edges of the AoE effect need visual clarity. I like how it pulses! This is a spell that I feel doesn't belong in the beginner category.

Divine Censure (holy spear) - love the idea behind this spell! Can we visually emphasize the debuff aspect of it? Less focus on the spear, more on who has been debuffed, so harder visual cues on the debuff (maybe a beam of light from heaven)? I'd even argue the spear looks a bit too solid - but I think that's just my taste. Hurling a spear is something I don't really associate with clerical disciplines - and I think interferes with the separation of weapon skills vs spells.

Resurrection - looking really good, can't wait to see the polished version I do think resurrection should not be a beginner spell though - it's like the ultimate form of healing.

Damnation (debuff DoT) - it almost looks like a buff right now, can you reduce opacity of the sweeping particles on the way up, and make them more solid on the way down?

Devotion (twinkle star heal) - description is "swift action", but it isn't swift. Especially when chain heal is much more instant.

Exorcism - the floating in the air animation here is over the top. Exorcism has a different connotation to what I see in this spell. Can I suggest the name "Soul String"? DoT effect also isn't obvious in the visual effect of the spell, too many sparkles around the caster for this spell.

Judgement (hammer throw) - this spell is too similar to divine censure, and a bit generic. I would reserve the name "Judgement" for a more impactful spell. Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I would love to see a few more spells to do with cleansing, and it would be cool if the higher level spells have more of a "channeling power from a diving being" aspect - meaning: rather than throwing hammers at people yourself, a hammer wielded by unseen (or seen?) hands appears, strikes and disappears.

Castigation - You're making it sound like you want to turn it into a basic attack chain but we already have those. It seems to me the main point of this is the HP/MP regeneration. Even more so if Cleric is a mana heavy class, or if we have mana heavy teammates, then we'd want to keep this buff up all the time, so it would be more of a one and done spell to get the buff going and then off to another skill.

But my major concern with this is as much as I love the idea of MP regen, shouldn't MP regen be a buff we give to the Bard class?

Hallowed Ground - what about this makes you feel it's not beginner? To me the idea of a massive AoE that both damage and heals is the most easy button beginner spell there is? No need to target or worry about aiming because it's a big AoE, you can damage and heal at the same time so an easy introduction into the idea of the class without having to choose to do one or the other, damage at lower levels when you're mostly soloing will be nice as well (and multi target even!) and it would also be some self healing while killing mobs which could be great, and I'm assuming it'll have to be balanced to do lower damage and lower healing than skills that only do one of those things, but since it's low level that'll be fine since nothing is super powerful at low levels anyway. What am I missing here? I mean I don't like the idea of the skill in general as I've said before, but it most definitely feels beginner to me. Just plop it down and win.

I agree it needs visual clarity in the effect visuals - the previous big glowing rune on the ground that we saw for this skill in previous livestreams was much better.

Divine Censure - I agree a spear isn't something I really associate with Cleric disciplines so it feels really off to throw a spear.

Devotion - definitely agree here. There's nothing swift about the character's arms going up twice in the air for however long before the heal starts flying, and then I also get quite nervous at the idea of the heal falling down onto the character's head because I see a bit of a delay there which makes me wonder if the heal itself will be delayed. I just imagine myself trying to use this to save someone and the cast delay and animation delay will mean the person dies and I watch the animation drop down onto their dead body.

Also just logically speaking, why would a Cleric throw a heal into the air so it can arc upwards instead of just shooting the heal directly at their target? It doesn't make any sense and it's so inefficient it just looks dumb. Personally I'd love aside from making it faster, making the animation have more weight behind it. If this is a quick, fast, direct heal I want it to have impact both visually and with sound effects, to really feel like I'm hitting them hard with some life saving holy action. Like damn it you're not dying - boom.

Exorcism - Exorcism's animation is definitely way over the top. I'd get rid of the floaty bit and try to speed up the animation as well. Also not sure it really feels like I'm exorcising a demon out of anyone. Should be more forceful. I mean if I'm "ripping the target's spirit" it should look rather painful, should it? We're Clerics here, hardened holy warriors, not dainty fairy Priests.

Judgement - I'd like to actually see a hammer here. I don't see any hammer just a bolt of light? A hammer is the most Cleric thing you could have considering Clerics are traditionally healers wearing chain armor and a 2H Warhammer or a 1H Mace Hammer and a Shield. So I'd love if maybe this skill were the Cleric throwing a 1H Mace Hammer at the target visually, or maybe more like throwing it down on the ground instead of outwards.

Crosim

I think a lot of these spells are super cool, but specifically from an animation and effect standpoint, I feel like there are some points of polish to be made. The thing that first caught my eye was just the massive amount of like particles and sparkles on everything. It seems way over the top for me, personally. I know the staff has said they were going to tone down some of the particle effects, but even if its toned down, it still kind feels like the same kind of overuse of glittery magic dust?

If castigatoin has all the particles to express the aoe regen portion of the spell, I think it might be kind of neat for the animation to spin the whip over the casters head, emitting the 'regen bits' outward, and then perhaps with the actual strike maybe have whip intensify and smack down with a more aggressive glow.

I think benediction looks great!

Hallowed ground I am a bit confused over. Is it a AOE centered on the caster or on a target? The animation seems over the top unless its a longer cooldown, but while floating up into the air it seems to be drawing in energy ... but when the caster comes down it seems to create a sigil in the ground in front of him, yet there are particles going crazy and radiating out from a source between the three targets? Regardless of the kind of AOE it is, I feel like that sigil should probably be the epicenter of the spell effect, as just pulsing out more ember looking particles seems like it might get hard/confusing to read in combat.

Divine Censure has a great animation! The effects of the spear kind of materializing in the casters hand sort of throws me off a bit, however. I personally feel like it would be more thematic if it like grew from end to end with some flash of light or something. The current effect is just something I can't quite put my finger on. It feels more like a technological effect than a magical one ... if that makes sense? As an addition, I think it would be super super cool if the spear (or a faded ghostly version) just stays impaled in the target while the 'heal on attack' debuff is active.

Resurrection looks great, but I feel like animation of the caster and the target should sync up a bit more. In the video, it seems like the target is just kinda doing a standard 'get up' animation. With the great animation on the casting I feel like when the cleric is pulling its hands up, it should be literally pulling the person to their feet.

The target effects of Damnation look amazing, but it looks like that swirling energy might continue to pulse with every tick of the dot? That might be a little too much to have circling about throughout combat.

Exorcism seems like it might be a cooldown? If its not ... that animation might want to be toned down a bit.

Judgement seems a bit buggy? It looks like to me the hammer only comes out on the first cast in the video? if you can throw a spear, why not a hammer? That being said, the trailing particle effects seem to look weird for how the hammer spins in the air or something? It looks like it leaves a 'Z' in the air behind it? I feel like a different particle effect might be better for a trail behind that one?

Overall looks quite great for an alpha! Really excited to see more!

daveywavey

Leiloni wrote: »

Castigation - we'd want to keep this buff up all the time, so it would be more of a one and done spell to get the buff going and then off to another skill.

But my major concern with this is as much as I love the idea of MP regen, shouldn't MP regen be a buff we give to the Bard class?

Agreed on the buff uptime. I can see this being one of the main skills I'll be using.

Given that Mages also have a MP regen skill (Gift Of The Magi), we may see it in more than one playstyle.

Leiloni wrote: »

Divine Censure - I agree a spear isn't something I really associate with Cleric disciplines so it feels really off to throw a spear.

I dunno, I've seen plenty of images/statues of angels with spears, and the ESO "cleric" (Templar) class had a Spear skill.

Leiloni wrote: »

Exorcism and Judgement - ... A hammer is the most Cleric thing you could have considering Cleric's are traditionally healers wearing chain armor and a 2H Warhammer or a 1H Mace Hammer and a Shield.

What churches have you been to...?!

Damokles

daveywavey wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Exorcism and Judgement - ... A hammer is the most Cleric thing you could have considering Cleric's are traditionally healers wearing chain armor and a 2H Warhammer or a 1H Mace Hammer and a Shield.

What churches have you been to...?!

The DnD Churches of FU*K OFF MY LAWN!

DnD Clerics are one of the most powerfull melee classes funnily enough with a two handed hammer and on hit damage spells.

maouw

@Leiloni
I felt the whip should last longer? But that's mainly because it took so long to summon. I can see how it would work as a one-off skill too. Still needs to be faster.
I'd like to give the bard plenty of utility too, clerics already do a lot on their own - I guess the whip is a plan B?

As for the AoE spell, I'm looking at it from a magic mastery progression point of view (not user mechanics). To my mind it makes more sense that you start off learning shorter, brief spells that are simple before you master the longer lasting, AoE spells as you progress in levels. I don't think this should be a spell someone who has just started learning magic should know yet.

What you're saying about throwing heals at the sky made me laugh. We mostly agree.

@Crosim
I'm pretty sure the particles are very rough at the moment, and Steven said they intend to scale down a lot of the vfx.

I 100% agree that the spear is too non-magical. I really like your idea about the spear lingering inside the target for the duration of the debuff. It can spawn little heal animations when people attack the speared target.

Leiloni

maouw wrote: »

@Leiloni
I felt the whip should last longer? But that's mainly because it took so long to summon. I can see how it would work as a one-off skill too. Still needs to be faster.
I'd like to give the bard plenty of utility too, clerics already do a lot on their own - I guess the whip is a plan B?

As for the AoE spell, I'm looking at it from a magic mastery progression point of view (not user mechanics). To my mind it makes more sense that you start off learning shorter, brief spells that are simple before you master the longer lasting, AoE spells as you progress in levels. I don't think this should be a spell someone who has just started learning magic should know yet.

What you're saying about throwing heals at the sky made me laugh. We mostly agree.

Yea I definitely agree the whip needs to be faster and I also feel like the visual of a whip doesn't really fit the theme of a Cleric to me? I'm not sure what I'd replace it with but it feels a bit odd to pull out a giant golden whip LOL.

Warth

Spear of Lights / Divine Spears / Lightning spears have had a deeply religious/fate driven history. It certainly can be associated, as a divine power, as it had a place in the mythology/religion of many human believes over the history of mankind. To name a few:

Greek and Roman
Norse
Hindu
Christian
couple of plenty Pagan ones
countless game universes including DnD and the Warcraft Universe

TL/DR a magical spear is indeed fitting for a cleric, as it oftentimes seen as Divine

Leiloni

daveywavey wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

Castigation - we'd want to keep this buff up all the time, so it would be more of a one and done spell to get the buff going and then off to another skill.

But my major concern with this is as much as I love the idea of MP regen, shouldn't MP regen be a buff we give to the Bard class?

Agreed on the buff uptime. I can see this being one of the main skills I'll be using.

Given that Mages also have a MP regen skill (Gift Of The Magi), we may see it in more than one playstyle.

Leiloni wrote: »

Divine Censure - I agree a spear isn't something I really associate with Cleric disciplines so it feels really off to throw a spear.

I dunno, I've seen plenty of images/statues of angels with spears, and the ESO "cleric" (Templar) class had a Spear skill.

Leiloni wrote: »

Exorcism and Judgement - ... A hammer is the most Cleric thing you could have considering Cleric's are traditionally healers wearing chain armor and a 2H Warhammer or a 1H Mace Hammer and a Shield.

What churches have you been to...?!

I'm talking about Clerics in RPGs, MMO's, and D&D based genres and games in general. The Cleric archetype always looks like that. We're not talking about Priests in real life, here.

Saphrosyne

not usually a cleric but it all looks so great already, and we’re not even quite in the alpha phases yet!

PlagueMonk

daveywavey wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

maouw wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

Right!
But physically hurling a hammer head over hilt like a tomahawk doesn't have the gavel spirit.

I guess there's no clean way to slam a gavel without making the gavel an enormous size.

Did I miss something because you are both talking as if Judgement had a hammer involved. All I saw was a lame particle steam hit the target and explode.

I would prefer if it was a phantom hammer that materialized over the target and slammed into them from above. That would feel much more impactful imho.

daveywavey

PlagueMonk wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

maouw wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

maouw wrote: »

Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?).

I assume they're going for the "judge's gavel" kind of feel.

Right!
But physically hurling a hammer head over hilt like a tomahawk doesn't have the gavel spirit.

I guess there's no clean way to slam a gavel without making the gavel an enormous size.

Did I miss something because you are both talking as if Judgement had a hammer involved. All I saw was a lame particle steam hit the target and explode.

The skill icon is a hammer.

McShave

From the spells shown I can already see how you can build your cleric in different ways. There's the up-close "in your face" kind of cleric and there's the spellcaster kind of cleric, and you can choose what kind you want to be by putting points into certain spells. I like this a lot.

I do have an issue with the passive healing. I don't want a whole party to be kept alive by passive aoe healing. But I do like the buffing and debuffing effects of some of these spells. The hammer and spear attack look awesome and I look forward to seeing the cleaned up versions.

Also I'm not a big fan of the floating while casting. When I'm casting spells I want my feet firmly planted on the ground while I'm handling all that spell power.

daveywavey

I like to mix passive and direct healing. If I've got enough passive healing going, then the rest of the party can hold out while I direct heal the guy who's having trouble. I don't see the problem with both, as long as they cast quick enough.

McShave

daveywavey wrote: »

I like to mix passive and direct healing. If I've got enough passive healing going, then the rest of the party can hold out while I direct heal the guy who's having trouble. I don't see the problem with both, as long as they cast quick enough.

There's nothing wrong with mixing some passive with some active healing. I just don't want the passive healing to be as strong as the active healing.

I was imagining a system where the cleric, dressed in mail gear, is in the combat throwing spears, hammers, and whips, and then jumps out to throw a chain heal then jumps back in. Jumping out of the combat to throw a heal or 2 is the essential part here.

daveywavey

McShave wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

I like to mix passive and direct healing. If I've got enough passive healing going, then the rest of the party can hold out while I direct heal the guy who's having trouble. I don't see the problem with both, as long as they cast quick enough.

There's nothing wrong with mixing some passive with some active healing. I just don't want the passive healing to be as strong as the active healing.

I was imagining a system where the cleric, dressed in mail gear, is in the combat throwing spears, hammers, and whips, and then jumps out to throw a chain heal then jumps back in. Jumping out of the combat to throw a heal or 2 is the essential part here.

Yeah, I always threw down the passive HoTs and then started getting stuck in. Re-apply when they run out, direct heal the lower health, and then stuck in again. I really enjoyed raid healing.

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