GreatThodric wrote: » While I don't mind the damage/healing combined spells, It's not really my style. I'd much rather have damage mitigation spells and abilities. Something I loved back in the earlier WoW expansions such as WotLK, Diciplin Priests weren't damage healers like they are now. They were insted mostly built to mitigate damage with shields. So instead of reacting to damage taken, you had to be proactive and see the damage coming before it happened. I do realize that this might be more of a feature for a secondary archetype which would slink right down my alley if that's the case.
Leiloni wrote: » Amma wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow. I wouldn't consider Disc a passive healer. They definitely directly heal and require a lot of skill, they just do it mostly via placing a buff on their targets and then using damage to heal. With Disc you're still very much actively choosing targets, strategically choosing which skills to use and when. And the fact that that damage to heal buff is a short term, single target buff only adds to the skill and decision making required. It's definitely in the category of traditional active healer. Nobody just passively gets healed from a Disc Priest in WoW - you only get healed after the Priest has gone through a lot of effort and a lot of button presses to get there.
Amma wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow.
Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons.
Pvp player wrote: » It looks amazing. But there seems to be an overabundance of skills with a very long cast time, which is troubling for PvP. In most pvp games, "hard CC" is overpowered, so it makes sense that those skills have a higher cost to them, but interestingly, Judgement has, besides direct damage, a knockdown and a debuff AND is insta cast. Conversely, you want heals to respond immediately (also in dungeons), and here we have single target Devotion that has a cast time (and also seems to be a hot), while Benediction is insta cast and is a group heal. Usually, damage over time skills are instant cast, but here, Hallowed Ground has a cast time. And when I look at the elaborate floating animation for it, I expect it to do cc to be honest. For everyone's convenience, including my own because these skills are all new to me of course, here's a list: The following skills (with timestamp) have animations that take over a second to finish before they "fire", and their effects. Castigation (0:30) - damage, health regen, mana regen Hallowed Ground (0:40) - aoe dot, aoe hot Divine Censure (0:47) - damage, heal over time, knockdown, Devotion (1:12) - heal Skills with short cast time or insta cast Benediction (0:37) - group heal Damnation (1:03) - damage over time, attack debuff Judgement (1:26) - damage, armour debuff, knockdown
Pvp player wrote: » It looks amazing. But there seems to be an overabundance of skills with a very long cast time, which is troubling for PvP. In most games, "hard CC" is overpowered, so it makes sense that those skills have a higher cost to them, but interestingly, Judgement has, besides direct damage, a knockdown and a debuff AND is insta cast. Conversely, you want heals to respond immediately (also in dungeons), and here we have single target Devotion that has a cast time (and also seems to be a hot), while Benediction is insta cast and is a group heal. Usually, damage over time skills are instant cast, but here, Hallowed Ground has a cast time. And when I look at the elaborate floating animation for it, I expect it to do cc to be honest. For everyone's convenience, including my own because these skills are all new to me of course, here's a list: The following skills (with timestamp) have animations that take over a second to finish before they "fire", and their effects. Castigation (0:30) - damage, health regen, mana regen Hallowed Ground (0:40) - aoe dot, aoe hot Divine Censure (0:47) - damage, heal over time, knockdown, Devotion (1:12) - heal Skills with short cast time or insta cast Benediction (0:37) - group heal Damnation (1:03) - damage over time, attack debuff Judgement (1:26) - damage, armour debuff, knockdown
Warth wrote: » Pvp player wrote: » It looks amazing. But there seems to be an overabundance of skills with a very long cast time, which is troubling for PvP. In most pvp games, "hard CC" is overpowered, so it makes sense that those skills have a higher cost to them, but interestingly, Judgement has, besides direct damage, a knockdown and a debuff AND is insta cast. Conversely, you want heals to respond immediately (also in dungeons), and here we have single target Devotion that has a cast time (and also seems to be a hot), while Benediction is insta cast and is a group heal. Usually, damage over time skills are instant cast, but here, Hallowed Ground has a cast time. And when I look at the elaborate floating animation for it, I expect it to do cc to be honest. For everyone's convenience, including my own because these skills are all new to me of course, here's a list: The following skills (with timestamp) have animations that take over a second to finish before they "fire", and their effects. Castigation (0:30) - damage, health regen, mana regen Hallowed Ground (0:40) - aoe dot, aoe hot Divine Censure (0:47) - damage, heal over time, knockdown, Devotion (1:12) - heal Skills with short cast time or insta cast Benediction (0:37) - group heal Damnation (1:03) - damage over time, attack debuff Judgement (1:26) - damage, armour debuff, knockdown In most games, the TTK is also between 5 and 10 seconds, which requires much faster reactions from the side of Healers in order to keep someone up @""Pvp player" The delays might be totally fine here.
maouw wrote: » Overall, I feel a bit overwhelmed by the number of spells available at level 10. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the caster visual effects - but like others have said, I still want to cast while moving or interrupt spell casting if needed. Some of them look like they could be advanced spells?Castigation (the shiny whip) - can this be a skill we can press 3 times? So we can lash left, right, and then a slightly stronger final hit? (and the whip can burst away in the final hit). Windup is a bit too long on this skill, spreading out the damage so that more of the total damage is in the third final hit gives players something to counterplay with other than windup animations. Benediction (chain heal) - looks too much like an electrical attack at the moment - can I suggest much softer curved lines and more blurred? With heals specifically, can we turn off gravity on the particles and instead make them rise? I think the character pose goes really well with this electric style spell - but perhaps would work better on an electric mage. The idea of a chain heal is good though! Hallowed Ground (AoE heal+damage) - the edges of the AoE effect need visual clarity. I like how it pulses! This is a spell that I feel doesn't belong in the beginner category. Divine Censure (holy spear) - love the idea behind this spell! Can we visually emphasize the debuff aspect of it? Less focus on the spear, more on who has been debuffed, so harder visual cues on the debuff (maybe a beam of light from heaven)? I'd even argue the spear looks a bit too solid - but I think that's just my taste. Hurling a spear is something I don't really associate with clerical disciplines - and I think interferes with the separation of weapon skills vs spells. Resurrection - looking really good, can't wait to see the polished version I do think resurrection should not be a beginner spell though - it's like the ultimate form of healing. Damnation (debuff DoT) - it almost looks like a buff right now, can you reduce opacity of the sweeping particles on the way up, and make them more solid on the way down? Devotion (twinkle star heal) - description is "swift action", but it isn't swift. Especially when chain heal is much more instant. Exorcism - the floating in the air animation here is over the top. Exorcism has a different connotation to what I see in this spell. Can I suggest the name "Soul String"? DoT effect also isn't obvious in the visual effect of the spell, too many sparkles around the caster for this spell. Judgement (hammer throw) - this spell is too similar to divine censure, and a bit generic. I would reserve the name "Judgement" for a more impactful spell. Again, physically throwing a hammer just doesn't sit right with me for the clerical offices unless it's a weapon skill (with a cleric augment?). I would love to see a few more spells to do with cleansing, and it would be cool if the higher level spells have more of a "channeling power from a diving being" aspect - meaning: rather than throwing hammers at people yourself, a hammer wielded by unseen (or seen?) hands appears, strikes and disappears.
Leiloni wrote: » Amma wrote: » Third point is that if this is the system later on in the game too then it would make sense because like IS said it multiple times, they balance the game mostly for bigger battles and events and not for 1v1, so if we think of a castle siege where you have 30-50 people in front of the castle, then passive healing is the most effective to heal as fast as possible the lowest life bars and not search on your monitor who is low and who not, because remember we wont have addons which could help us with that. So maybe these are some of the reasons for these "beginner" spells. Arguing for passive healing to make it easier and insinuating that addons are necessary is just sad. Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. It's not skillful, nor is it fun when the game plays itself for me and just magically heals everyone. And no, addons are not necessary for mass raid healing. Understanding how to read and use your UI effectively in a raid setting is an important skill for any healer. A big part of what makes healing fun is having to decide who to heal when, what abilities to use, being able to pay attention to the battlefield and your UI, quick reactions, etc. and we've done all of that in other games. We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. I understand that these are low level abilities, but I certainly hope they don't represent what it will play like at later levels.
Amma wrote: » Third point is that if this is the system later on in the game too then it would make sense because like IS said it multiple times, they balance the game mostly for bigger battles and events and not for 1v1, so if we think of a castle siege where you have 30-50 people in front of the castle, then passive healing is the most effective to heal as fast as possible the lowest life bars and not search on your monitor who is low and who not, because remember we wont have addons which could help us with that. So maybe these are some of the reasons for these "beginner" spells.
Atama wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Amma wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow. I wouldn't consider Disc a passive healer. They definitely directly heal and require a lot of skill, they just do it mostly via placing a buff on their targets and then using damage to heal. With Disc you're still very much actively choosing targets, strategically choosing which skills to use and when. And the fact that that damage to heal buff is a short term, single target buff only adds to the skill and decision making required. It's definitely in the category of traditional active healer. Nobody just passively gets healed from a Disc Priest in WoW - you only get healed after the Priest has gone through a lot of effort and a lot of button presses to get there. I played a Disc priest in WoW (and really enjoyed it, it made healing fun) and I will second this. It's not like you just sit there spamming attacks and let everyone get passively healed by your presence. As you said, you have to keep the buff on people and it takes some skill to predict who needs it the most and prioritize it. It's kind of like juggling HoTs on people but you are also involved in the DPS side at the same time.
Cold 0ne FTB wrote: » Warth wrote: » In most games, the TTK is also between 5 and 10 seconds, which requires much faster reactions from the side of Healers in order to keep someone up @""Pvp player" The delays might be totally fine here. @Pvp player I agree also hard CCs are not necessarily overpowered. There are plenty of MMOs out there that balance the mechanics of CCs quite effectively. There is very much a risk vs reward when it comes to these abilities, healing shouldn't be an exception. Considering that we already know that certain classes get access to temporary CC immunity, I am sure that there will be an effective counter play to CCs. However they could also be how you defeat a cleric. This game will feature a rock/paper/scissor kind of balance and this could be what balances that particular class.
Warth wrote: » In most games, the TTK is also between 5 and 10 seconds, which requires much faster reactions from the side of Healers in order to keep someone up @""Pvp player" The delays might be totally fine here.
pyreal wrote: » Amma wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow. Healers heal. That is the class focus: supporting your team with life juice. Its like saying Tanks should have passive aggro management. If you don't like healing, I think this class is not for you.
Amma wrote: » pyreal wrote: » Amma wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow. Healers heal. That is the class focus: supporting your team with life juice. Its like saying Tanks should have passive aggro management. If you don't like healing, I think this class is not for you. 5. Again, you dont decide for me how or what i play, so dont try to tell me which class is for me and which is not. If i have fun to play a more offensive cleric, then thats what will happen.
Keern wrote: » Amma wrote: » pyreal wrote: » Amma wrote: » Leiloni wrote: » Real healers don't want nor need passive healing. ........ We don't need passive healing nor do we need healing addons. Well... i am sorry that i am not part of the "real" healers and that you "real" healers dont need passive healing. As an amateur healer who wants to have simply fun at playing a game, i think it would be nice to have passive healing, because this is simply what made fun for me as an disci priest in wow. Healers heal. That is the class focus: supporting your team with life juice. Its like saying Tanks should have passive aggro management. If you don't like healing, I think this class is not for you. 5. Again, you dont decide for me how or what i play, so dont try to tell me which class is for me and which is not. If i have fun to play a more offensive cleric, then thats what will happen. Id really hope there will be hybrid classes like an offensive cleric viable in the game. The classic me healer me heal approach the other guy described seems less fun.
