(Exagerate animations) m'I alone on this one?

Hello everybody.

The point of this thread is see the opinion of the people here about exagerate cast animations.
For example I really don't like the actual fire ball mage cast, does a mage really need to JUMP then make two turns in the air then come down and finaly cast the fire ball? I came from WoW, I played that MMORPG for 12 years and one thing I liked about the animations of cast was the simplicity of them, but one day they change the animations for more exagerate casting spells and i hated it, I mean I know this is a game and is cool see our characters do cool stuff but in some point I think is too much exagerate.

I want to know your opinion, thanks.

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oophus

Leiloni wrote: »

Thanks for the reminder. I was going to say I definitely have seen mechanics like this used before and I couldn't remember where. Definitely TERA. I also seem to remember other classes had a couple skills like this as well. I know my Priest had a skill that would return mana to myself and the group and it had 2-3 charge levels. Not something you really want on all of your skills. Just practically speaking, it's not intuitive or fun to play with.

The benefit of standardizing how systems are implemented is its tweakable in easier ways. The game already have implemented the system I'm talking about but not in all scenarios. Melee combat for example is so quick that they only do link animations as a chain. The problem with this however is that its fast to implement, but a pain to tweak if changes are made later. We have still not seen classes with archetype 2 linked to it, with abilities that are tweaked on top of what we see now. And as far as I can see, most of the tweaks either alter it completely, or are just adding stats to them.

If they standardize, its way easier to balance the game with it, and it opens up so many more possibilities for further improvement and additions to the systems after X years when the game gets updated again.

Take melee combat as an example:

With current implementation we are always stuck with animations going fully through 100%.
If they divide it in logical cuts, or implement a simplified hit-detection to cut it procedurally, it can suddenly be altered to it being blocked for example, or the end of the animation can procedurally be altered if crits are landed etc to further expand in two important topics in animation - anticipation and follow-through/overlapping action. So if they already today think about the full potential of the game going 10 years ahead of time, then building systems to be both open for alterations, changes and that introduce possible depth to the game is just a logical thing to do, instead of doing the short-cuts.

Noaani

Asgermon wrote: »

it is really exhausting to read everything here and 80% of it is just a discussion about whether oophus is allowed to express criticism of something that is still in the works.

That is something of a misrepresentation.

The OP thinks the animations need work.

Literally everyone agrees, and many of us have pointed out that Intrepid know this, so there is no need to worry.

Not only is there no need to worry, there is also no need for someone with no MMO development experience to try to tell industry veterans how they should do their job.

If you actually read any of my posts in this thread, you would understand that my issue is not with someone having the opinion that animations need work. Literally everyone is of that opinion.

My issue is with someone that feels so self righteous that they think they can tell some of the most experienced MMO developers that have ever been how to develop an MMO.

Any sane person that values experience or expertise would take the same issue here that I have. They may not express it in the same way, but they would have that same issue.

Adaegus Wintermight

Noaani wrote: »

Not only is there no need to worry, there is also no need for someone with no MMO development experience to try to tell industry veterans how they should do their job.

My issue is with someone that feels so self righteous that they think they can tell some of the most experienced MMO developers that have ever been how to develop an MMO.

Are you asking the community to not provide feedback to the developers?

eighart

That animation when mage is throwing a fireball from air is so wrong that I am considering collecting money from people on the internet to pay the devs to change it. Game otherwise looks promising but I just can't get past this silly animation that is just too much and unnecessary. Can anyone tell me if there is any talk about this from the devs? Thank you.

Sholer

Totally right, I ready done a theme about this and all agree to the fact that those animations are too exaggerate.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/46590/exagerate-animations-mi-alone-on-this-one/p1

LieutenantToast

Hey there! As there have been a couple separate topics on these particular animations lately, I've merged together a few different ones here to keep feedback on this all in one place. As noted a bit above, all of these animations are very much a work in progress that will continue to be fine-tuned throughout testing!

Noaani

Adaegus Wintermight wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Not only is there no need to worry, there is also no need for someone with no MMO development experience to try to tell industry veterans how they should do their job.

My issue is with someone that feels so self righteous that they think they can tell some of the most experienced MMO developers that have ever been how to develop an MMO.

Are you asking the community to not provide feedback to the developers?

Not at all.

Thing is, inexperienced suggestions are not feedback.

Feedback is saying "I like these things, and I dislike these things", the second you get in to saying what you think they should do to remedy the things you don't like, you are no longer offering feedback.

At that point you are being a self righteous prat that thinks they know better than a group of people with actual hundreds of years combined experience on the subject matter.

There is nothing wrong with having ideas to discuss with the community either. That's great, and I quite happily take part in that myself quite often. However, discussion between players is not directed at developers, and should not necessarily even be read by developers.

Adaegus Wintermight

eighart wrote: »

That animation when mage is throwing a fireball from air is so wrong that I am considering collecting money from people on the internet to pay the devs to change it.

I'll agree it's a little much with the giant wind up spin, but it doesn't bother me too much. I just don't think we need to publicly execute someone that criticizes the game.

Noaani wrote: »

Feedback is saying "I like these things, and I dislike these things", the second you get in to saying what you think they should do to remedy the things you don't like, you are no longer offering feedback.

At that point you are being a self righteous prat that thinks they know better than a group of people with actual hundreds of years combined experience on the subject matter.

I think that's just constructive criticism but I guess it's all up to interpretation.

I'd be less hesitant to sing the praises of the developers. Not that they're bad, they're not! The AoC team freakin' rules and I've never seen such a tight knit, transparent, and determined group of devs. But you're allowed to say "hey have you guys tried this?" or even "X is good but Y might be something special". The AoC team isn't perfect, no one is. It's okay to suggest things.

oophus

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Also, on the topic of animations and combat timing, the timing is entirely dependent on the animations, they go hand in hand. In order to fine-tune the combat timing you need animations to see what timing works and what doesn't.

My point here is that the animator can do more for less in quicker time, of the Systems Designer standardize in ways animations are implemented.

You need an animation of 90 frames to see how a 3 second cast ability works in action, but that animation doesn't need to be perfect. It can be blocked out as long as it lasts 90 seconds. If the 90 frames is then separated into 3 parts of 30 frames to be utilized in the blending system in UE, it can then be further tested with smaller, faster tests. The animators can change out the first part and make 2-3 versions of it. Some 20 frames long, some 30 frames, some 40 frames while all of them have the same last frame to blend nicely into the previous produced animation. The speed of progress and testing would be faster. Less work for the animator initially while blocking, and a bit more work for the System Designer who have to make it fit in UE. But if the Systems Designer finds a standard for this, then all further progress should go faster. When its tested to perfection for timing, then do another animations round on it.

Noaani

Adaegus Wintermight wrote: »

But you're allowed to say "hey have you guys tried this?" or even "X is good but Y might be something special". The AoC team isn't perfect, no one is. It's okay to suggest things.

I'm currently in what can only be described as my second career cook at home, they know what every restaurant should be doing. Yet these people have literally no idea at all what it is like when you are cooking for 120 people by yourself. Most of the suggestions made would require a completely new business plan, new staff, new equipment - stuff that just isn't feasible. Yet these people are adamant that is what is needed. It isn't that we didn't think of these things - as a chef I would spend several hundred hours working on the minutae of each menu, going through each dish to work out how things would flow when that one person was cooking for 120 people, or when 3 were cooking for 500. Everything on the menu needs to work not just as an individual dish, but it needs to be workable in terms of work flow.

Anyone that hasn't worked in that environment simply doesn't understand the things that need to all work together. They just see the finished dish, and think that is all the attention that is given.

I get the same in my current career - though now I have someone to go through the many thousands of pieces of "feedback" my team receives each week. This person has instructions to bring me anything that seems like it is worth my time - and in five years I've not had any make it to me.

Suggestions to developers are the same. You have no idea of what they are working on. You have no idea what they want or need out of their animation system, or out of anything else they are developing.

Nor do I.

We can say that we do or do not like a specific thing - that's great, potentially even useful. However, anyone that thinks they can come up with a an idea that happens to be workable in a project they are unfamiliar with, in a company they have never worked for, in an industry they have not been trained for, is outright deluding themselves.

oophus

Noaani wrote: »

Anyone that hasn't worked in that environment simply doesn't understand the things that need to all work together. They just see the finished dish, and think that is all the attention that is given.

Here is the irony in this. I work in an environment with 40 designers/developers spread out over the world in the company I work for, and I'm doing a lot of the same things that would be required for this game. The differences is scope and communications to and from a server, as we develop VR games ran locally.

And here you are as a cook and can judge how a game is made, and what the devs need or not, and speak on their behalf? Come on. Let them speak for themselves, and if you choose to involve yourself, try to speak in a manner that gives them value while reading this forum. This means addressing the topic! If you don't adress the topic, then let the thread die on it self! Don't assume stuff you have no insight on, especially what the developers think. Ask questions before you assume, and then make the conclusion once you are up to speed, if some of the technical stuff is hard to grasp.

Merek

This thread has turned into, quite literally, a pissing contest.

Noaani wrote: »

Not only is there no need to worry, there is also no need for someone with no MMO development experience to try to tell industry veterans how they should do their job.

People who have played games long enough understand systems that don't work, especially MMO players. MMO's have risen and fallen more than any other genre in gaming, due to this, I think MMO players as a whole do genuinely know what works a lot better than others. This is also your first attempt at gatekeeping criticism, which is just weird.

Noaani wrote: »

My issue is with someone that feels so self righteous that they think they can tell some of the most experienced MMO developers that have ever been how to develop an MMO.

Any sane person that values experience or expertise would take the same issue here that I have. They may not express it in the same way, but they would have that same issue.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it falls back to my first reply. Again, your experience doesn't make you immune to criticism. And, if I remember correctly, the games they worked on previously are not very impressive.

As a community, we can only give feedback on what we're given. So, when we see horrible animations, we speak up. I'd rather have people complain constantly about things that look bad early on than allow Intrepid to get comfortable with it. 'True' feedback will come after people are given a chance to actually get hands on with the game. But after the last posts, this thread is pretty much dead. We can all come to the agreement that the placeholder animations, even though they are placeholder, absolutely suck. Hopefully the final product is actually good.

Anonymous332

Sometimes less is more. Simple clean cast animations is less work and looks the best

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